Wages and Unions - moved from: Things to do to keep feeling "normal" while living out of your van?

Van Living Forum

Help Support Van Living Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
That’s a little harsh, isn’t it?

Disability and food stamps?
Well, it could be worded better, but it becomes one when politics gets involved, which is opening another can of worms; we won't go there. I paid into my SS for a total of 33 years and took it early at 62 to care for my daughter, who has been brain-damaged by listeria meningitis since birth; she is on disability. Between her check, my SSI retirement check, and my side hustle, I don't need food stamps. Just because you can doesn't always mean you should. We homo sapiens are greedy and envious creatures in our nature, with very few having the self-discipline to co-exist with their neighbors peacefully without interference. This is why these government programs are abused and get a bad rap. People need to learn how to care for and provide for themselves so as not to be a burden on others. A hardship, accident, or medical problem that is not self-inflicted; of course, everyone goes through hard times, but many are taking advantage of something intended for the needy because they don't want to have to work, hence the handout reputation.
 
We may not be "the shining light on the hill", but we ain't Mexico...
I disagree 100%! Else, why would everyone in the world be trying to get to America? In America, opportunity abounds if you are willing to roll up your shirt sleeves and work for it; there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to make a living, get a skill in demand. How many poor plumbers or electricians do you know? How about poor welders?
 
Not harsh, just true & I'm not judging anyone. SSI is NOT dissability SSDI is & that's what workers/employers pay for. I bought long term dissability insurance 5 years before I broke my back. 6 month short term or long term till age 65 were the same price.I believe in feeding the poor & helping people in need but our government likes to put SS, SSI, SSDI, & SNAP in the same box, What working people paid for & what non working people didn't pay for are 2 different issues. One is earned & the other is charity. There are people even some on here that try to collect the most while planning their life around doing the least.
 
Cliffs Notes version... You have "real" competition in a purely capitalistic system, not a regulatory bureaucracy benefiting those who write the rules. In actual capitalism with "unrestrained" competition, the consumer is in control and benefits significantly because the manufacturer or supplier of goods and services has to make their product cheaper and better than his or her competition. The consumer controls the price based on whether the consumer buys or not. But so many of the masses are gullible fools and useful idiots who don't understand, and the rich and powerful use our human nature against us.
Regarding regulations, you have the fox guarding the hen house situation with government players making rules and laws benefiting the highest bidders who spent massive sums of capital on lobbyists to ensure they have their place at the hog trough. After a while, the little guy can't get in. So, you see, it's not capitalism that's the problem; it's the nature of human nature; we are our own worst enemy. I don't care how pure of heart an idea is; some A-hole will come along and muck it up, of that one can be sure.
 
I believe in feeding the poor & helping people in need but our government likes to put SS, SSI, SSDI, & SNAP in the same box, What working people paid for & what non working people didn't pay for are 2 different issues. One is earned & the other is charity. There are people even some on here that try to collect the most while planning their life around doing the least.
SSI is disability, but different from SSDI.

https://www.ssa.gov/ssi?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhuik4M-_ggMV7EJBAh2r2Q8aEAAYASAAEgKHcPD_BwE
Everyone doesn’t have the same ability to earn, for whatever reason, which is why these programs provide minimalist benefits.
 
Everyone doesn’t have the same ability to earn, for whatever reason, which is why these programs provide minimalist benefits.
The "for whatever reason" is the grey area; everybody is different, and minimalist benefits are appropriate. One doesn't get the dream they didn't plan or pay for, but at the same time, society is better when folks, through no fault of their own, aren't living in the gutter. Centrally planned "cookie-cutter" policies always fail. I made a decent living, worked hard, and am glad for my SSI retirement income. Life is a risk, and though I built more than one retirement plan, life intervened, usually my fault, and if it weren't for my SSI, I'd have nothing. The many skills I learned over 70 years of life experience provide me with a side stream income, but it's fragile because my health or the economy could shut it down at any time.
 
I think people are changing also. At least here you can't find anyone that want's to work. It seems like no one has the drive or hustle they had pre-covid or before. Most think they're owed something. I owe no one & no one owes me as it should be. People don't even want to work 40 hours anymore. I almost never worked under 60. People today have as much or more oppertunity as we ever had. As far as Soc Sec goes, My employers & I payed 13% of my wages all those years into the fund so it's no handout like SSI,SNAP etc are. Also people used to be able to disagree & respect each other's views & still be friends, not any more & that's really sad IMHO.
Hmmmm. I beg to differ. I think we are too prone to idealize the past and critic the present. Yes, the world has changed and not all to the better. My grandfather came from a time they had pitched battles with company thugs to gain some level of respect and livable wages. I am sure the owners and investors thought "those damned workers just don't want to work." My father earned a pension and both he and his employer expected a more or less lifelong commitment to one another. At some time during my career that changed to companies treating all employees like disposable materials and workers saw benefits and average wages shrink in relation to the cost of living. And if companies saw a way to increase profits by moving to a cheaper labor market off-shore - they did it without a second thought about the workers that had helped build the company and that they now left behind.

Under those conditions I would not expect any more employee loyalty than absolutely necessary. And yet, I think most workers still are willing to give it. Many people now work short term or part time jobs because that's often all that is available. I think most people would rather have a dependable income and retirement than constantly searching for their next job and hoping to somehow figure out some way to provide for the inevitable time when there is no income. Many people lean on government programs because the system that should have provided better education, training, and opportunity has failed them. I believe that most people would much rather have good jobs than collect such help. And I absolutely believe that those of us that had no choice about paying a portion of our income into social security or 401k programs EARNED every penny we now get back.

The solution is not blaming the workers, it is fixing the system.

And before I forget, when they measure who are the happiest people in the world, it always seems to be the more or less socialist countries like Norway, Sweden, and Denmark that come out on top. I'd certainly like to give their system a shot.
 
Last edited:
Another thought...
I know they call it "social democracy" but that could be confusing to some people. Socialism is an economic system and democracy is a political system. Just as many people confuse other economic systems like capitalism, communism, etc. with the political systems like dictatorships, republics, etc. that we came to identify them with. There is no reason a capitalism could not also be a dictatorship than any other possibility. Any if we are not very careful it could happen here.
 
In my opinion the reason I feel the general population (especially employees) need more control over corporations which now are basically one person or small group owned hence all the wealth/political power is held by few is we don’t have a functioning capitalistic system. What we have are more monopolies selling influence or goods through marketing false realities. No wonder we should be concerned about artificial intelligence taking over our society just look at what has happened to our political parties being influenced by people marketing misinformation and fear for personal gains of power and money. Making all people’s lives better should be the main concern not “winning or losing”. All people should have a voice in determining our country’s future just as all employees should have a voice when excessive profits are made by their labors.
 
Last edited:
At least here you can't find anyone that want's to work.
One of those "unintended consequences" of printing and tossing trillions of $$$ at people, while telling them they had to stay home... but didn't need to pay rent! Functional addicts became dysfunctional, and nearly everybody got out of the habit of actually working. We are currently transitioning from the "party" to the "hangover" phase. Credit cards are getting maxed out, rent needs to be paid, and student loans need to be paid. People will need to work again eventually.
 
I disagree 100%! Else, why would everyone in the world be trying to get to America?

Becasue there are a bunch of countries to the south that are more dysfunctional and corrupt and poor.

The US over the last 40-50 years has gradually become a worse place to live for an average person, and that shows no sign of changing... except for a steeper downhill slide. Back then anybody who wanted to work could make a good living (and support a family and send kids to college!), because union involvement was strong enough to keep corporations in check.
 
One of those "unintended consequences" of printing and tossing trillions of $$$ at people, while telling them they had to stay home... but didn't need to pay rent! Functional addicts became dysfunctional, and nearly everybody got out of the habit of actually working. We are currently transitioning from the "party" to the "hangover" phase. Credit cards are getting maxed out, rent needs to be paid, and student loans need to be paid. People will need to work again eventually.
You forgot that "greedflation" happened and hasn't ended. (Greedflation means that businesses cried inflation WHILE making record profits, jacked up prices for consumers, then made even greater record profits.)

From ABC News four days ago:

Credit card debt climbed to a record high in the third quarter of 2023, surging nearly 5% from the previous quarter and leaving a growing share of borrowers late on payments, a Federal Reserve report this week showed.

The report demonstrates the dwindling savings held by some consumers who amassed a financial buffer during the pandemic but later burned through it under the strain of rapid price increases, economists told ABC News.

The financial hardship, they added, has fallen primarily on low-income people squeezed between elevated prices and high interest rates who borrowed money to cover the rising expenses.

The economists differed, however, on the economic implications of the credit card debt. Some treated the data as evidence of an alarming trend that foretells weakness for U.S. consumers and a potential economic slowdown. Others said the debt doesn't threaten the wider economy.

Here's what to know about what the record credit card debt means for the economy:

The Fed report marks the latest indication that some consumers have exhausted savings built up during the pandemic as a means of weathering high prices, economists said.

The average net worth of U.S. households skyrocketed nearly 40% between 2019 and 2022, a rate more than double a previous record high in the early 2000s, the Federal Reserve found last year.

The surge coincided with a rapid rise in prices, however, as inflation reached a peak last summer. In turn, the average savings rate for U.S. households has plummeted since 2022, the Fed said last month.

"We had all-time high household savings and inflation strikes and people have to do something about that," John Sedunov, a finance professor at Villanova University's School of Business, told ABC News.

"People have to deal with this somehow," he added. "After blowing through savings to buy essentials, they do what's next: Find sources to borrow."

U.S. consumers, who account for nearly three-quarters of U.S. economic activity, drove breakneck economic growth in recent months, Mary Hansen, an economics professor at American University, told ABC News. The data released this week suggests the consumer spending was fueled in part by debt, she noted.

"Consumer spending, which we all know is the base of GDP, is really being held up by credit card debt and maybe it's not sustainable," Hansen said.

The jump in credit card debt also indicates that elevated inflation has imposed acute hardship on some low-income people, economists said.
MORE: Job market shows signs of losing momentum. Here's what it means.

Overall delinquency rates on a range of consumer loans -- including credit card, auto and student borrowing -- ticked up to 3% over a three-month period ending in September, the Fed report showed.

"The increase in credit card debt and delinquencies reflects in part the increased financial stress on lower-income households, who have been hit hard by the higher cost of living," Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics, told ABC News.

Low-income people in financial distress have responded to high prices in part by taking on additional credit card debt. But such loans come with high interest rates that can exacerbate an individual's budget problems, Hansen said.

Average credit card interest rates stand at nearly 21%, Bankrate found last week. That figure is up from roughly 16% at the outset of 2022.

"It puts people on the low end of the income distribution in a real bind," Hansen said.

While the difficulty faced by low-income people hold significant implications for their financial outlook, such hardship bears little on the wider economy since low-income people account for a relatively small share of overall consumer spending, Christian Weller, a public policy professor at the University of Massachusetts at Boston, told ABC News.

In contrast with Hansen, Weller said the rise in credit card debt and delinquency falls short of posing a threat to the economy.

"We've had really gangbusters consumption," Weller said. "A lot of this was driven by consumption among upper and middle income households."

He added, "Those people still have more cash on hand."
 
Top