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The best & cheapest (free) healthcare is Medicaid. Once again not for people who worked & paid into the system their whole life or were in the military (VA) Medicare is charity again.
People who have worked and paid into “the system” can and do receive Medicaid, if they fall into poverty for some reason, become disabled, have only a small social security check for income. Etc.

I have a disabled relative living in federal housing who has a Medical card, tho she worked full time for many years.

Medicare is not “charity”. I have health insurance as well as Medicare, as I am over 65, and I worked most of 50 years before retiring.
 

Three Nations That Tried Socialism and Rejected It​

The U.S. has been screwing with S. American countries for many decades. Coups, puppet dictators, theft, killings, assassinations, sanctions... all kinds of illegal, terrible interventions in the sovereign nations of South America. Especially Venezuela.
 
^^^ I thought Wyoming was making all their money off real estate and remote workers moving in from California. Wonder how long before those law makers get voted out?
 
People who have worked and paid into “the system” can and do receive Medicaid, if they fall into poverty for some reason, become disabled, have only a small social security check for income. Etc.

I have a disabled relative living in federal housing who has a Medical card, tho she worked full time for many years.

Medicare is not “charity”. I have health insurance as well as Medicare, as I am over 65, and I worked most of 50 years before retiring.
I don't think I said Medicare is charity, I meant Medicaid if I did. We pay for Medicare & Medicaid is free & much better than Medicare. Medicare is not welfare like Medicaid.
I'm using the wrong phrase. Replace charity with Public Assistance, used to be called Welfare. Charity is when the giver chooses to donate to those in need. You & I didn't pay for Medicaid thru our payroll deductions like we paid Medicare. Read below please.
https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/assistance-programs
 
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^^^ I thought Wyoming was making all their money off real estate and remote workers moving in from California. Wonder how long before those law makers get voted out?
It's from Liberty Resolve dot com
 
I'll try to respond to the various points.

Health Care... I also have Canadian friends. Shucks, I lived there for a while. And in my experience, most Canadians would NOT trade what they have for what we have. Although they are protected against ruinous doctor and hospital bills, some Canadians complain about the cost of prescription drugs. That is against the backdrop of US citizens traveling to Canada or Mexico trying to save money on drugs. Is it perfect or maybe even the best option? Probably not. But I would be happy for even a marginal improvement on what the US provides. I could have as easily posted many links to even better medical systems in the world that provide improved care at a lower cost, but that would be beating a dead horse. I think if anyone honestly looks, they could find them too.

Socialism... With the understanding that all current systems are mixtures of different economies, let me first address Venezuela. I would suggest reading the Wiki page about their economy at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela. They have many problems and would have them regardless of which economic system they used. On top of that, their political system is a dictatorship - regardless of what they might claim. Another strike against them!

Venezuela's dependence on oil production which has since collapsed - due to their stupidity and politics is a different issue. Which brings us back to Gr8ful's comment about Norway's oil production. Yes, Norway is a large energy producer, and one of the world's largest exporters of oil. However, most of the electricity in the country is produced by hydroelectricity and they are moving far more quickly to EVs than is the US. In 2022, about 88 percent of all cars sold in Norway were electric cars. I don't see any double standard in my advocacy of their economic system. If Norway was not shipping their oil, the oil USERS would just buy from Russia or maybe Venezuela. :)

I do take rruff's reply and his charts to heart. I think he makes good points. Not enough to change my mind on our possible improvements. But still, good data.
 
Wyoming Hits Back at California with a Car Ban of Their Own!
https://libertyresolve.com/wyoming-hits-back-at-california-with-a-car-ban-of-their-own/
When & if EVs are developed into the Quality, Range & at the right price people will choose to buy them & the Gov won't have to give tax breaks or force them down our throats.
The next time the government tries to push an EV down your throat , please send them to me. If I can afford it, it will require no pushing. I understand that we have many different opinions on this forum.That's fine. But, I think there is fairly minimal disagreement about health and pollution linkages. For me, if for no other reason (and there are many) I think that should convince us to change to cleaner vehicles.
 
I know that my health insurance can be used in other countries in an emergency, but I would have to pay for the care and then be reimbursed.

That's the thing that had me confused... you think US insurance usually covers you when you are abroad. That ain't true! In fact you will usually get denied even if you have an emergency out of network! This will of course be more likely to happen if it's an expensive emergency, because they really hate to pay $$$, and they have many good lawyers... and just playing the odds, they figure you have none. And buried somewhere in their fine print they will have a few loopholes regarding judgement calls that make them feel pretty confident that they can weasel out of paying most of it, and stick it to you. Stuff like... if you aren't in imminent danger of dying, then they don't have to pay, because you could have traveled back into the network.

Reminds me of something that happened to me. Before Obamacare I paid for private insurance through Presbyterian. One year I decided to get dental insurance because I was figuring on a couple root canals and crowns coming up. I emailed to ask them if they'd pay if I went to a dentist in Mexico, and they replied that they would. Win-win really, since my insurance max was about half what I paid in Mexico, while the cost would have been way over in the US. Afterwards I sent them all the paperwork. Didn't hear back. Bugged them again... still nothing. Eventually I got a reply that they wouldn't pay anything, and they listed 3 reasons.... all of which were completely bogus. I wrote back and explained why they were mistaken, and provided evidence. No reply... ever. I would have needed to go to court. Over a $500 bill? Not worth the trouble.

That's one of the issues with our crazy HC system... insurance companies.
 
Canadian healthcare sucks according to every Canadian I've discussed it with.

Everyone I've discussed it with at least prefers it to the US quagmire! And based on the reading I've done, the Canadian system is pretty poor compared to other developed countries. In the ranking above it's 10/11, so not exactly a stellar score. So yes it sucks, it just sucks less than the US HC.
 
After having another look, I see that the main advantage that the Canadian system has is that it costs about 1/2 as much as in the US! So they indeed have ****** HC but only have to pay half as much for it.

While I have at least one person's attention I thought I'd relay another anecdote/horror story regarding US HC. A friend was injured in a mountain biking accident, and went to the local emergency room. He had internal bleeding and was in pretty bad shape, but the local hospital was not equipped to deal with this, so he needed to go to one of the "big cities" which were 2-3 hrs by ambulance. One of these cities (the 2hr one) happened to be just across the border in another state. He could not get a helicopter flight to the in-state hospital, and they didn't know if he'd die if he didn't get treated within 3 hrs, so they he went to the other one (which was closer, anyway), by helicopter.

Even though he lost a kidney (that's why we have two of them!) the insurance company deemed that he wouldn't have died if he'd taken an ambulance to the in-state hospital, and so the $30,000 bill (!?) for the helicopter was denied! Seriously... this is the kind of stuff we are supposed to figure out and factor in while we might be dying... because the organizations tasked with providing our medical service are hostile, dishonest, subversive, and greedy as hell!

I wonder if our life expectancy is lower (and declining!) relative to other developed countries, just because of the added stress? I mean, you need to have insurance for everything... you pay and pay all your life and then you finally really need it... and you discover that you didn't have insurance. I guess we all need a personal attorney to look at our documents and tell us what we actually have...
 
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^^^Because my family isn’t covered by the VA we went bankrupt because of medical bills not being paid by insurance companies. Again another of my grandmother sayings “You are preaching to the choir! Amen brother!”. We were “saved” recently by the new disclosure law that requires hospitals to inform you before preforming procedures/providing services or not be allowed to charge that passed when Congress worked.
 
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That's the thing that had me confused... you think US insurance usually covers you when you are abroad. That ain't true! In fact you will usually get denied even if you have an emergency out of network!
Well, I have spoken directly with my insurance company, and I am covered for emergency care in another country, but must pay for it first and be reimbursed.

My husband was stricken and eventually died when we were 900 miles from home.

Ambulance, emergency room, ICU, etc., I paid the deductible and copays, our insurance covered the rest.

Also, when you are at admitting in a US hospital, maybe also on the forms you sign agreeing to payment, there are notices of funding available if you cannot pay your bill.

You have to apply for this, fill out forms, but help is there.
 
And there are downsides to free healthcare, such as the article in the last day or two about an infant in the UK, I believe it was, taken off life support over the objection of the parents.

You can’t take this free healthcare from Canada, for example, into the US, either, but must purchase healthcare for your trip…if you can get it and then afford it.

No perfect systems, tho the US could do better, imo.
Good Point Rose. I m getting off topic, sorry. Something I never thought of until recently is that our US health insurance probably won't do us any good when traveling in Canada. At least Medicare probably won't. From what I read, unless u r on a direct route to Alaska if on Medicare u r SOL. I haven't ever bought travel insurance so I looked into it, and it is expensive. Please correct me if I m wrong. Best Wishes
 
I think many of us have said there are no "pure" economic systems in today's world. Neither "our" capitalism, or "their" socialism, or communism, or whatever country and system we might want to name.

However... they ARE more socialist than we are. And the top happiest countries >
  • Finland
  • Denmark
  • Iceland
  • Switzerland
  • Netherlands
  • Luxembourg
  • Sweden
  • Norway
*In the Nordic countries, education is free and publicly funded, and there are no tuition fees in higher education.
*The cost of healthcare in Scandinavian countries is publicly financed, which ensures that everyone has access to the region’s best medical facilities at no direct or minimal patient cost.
*They ARE dealing with problems like homelessness and climate change better.
* etc. etc. etc.

Perfect? NO. Better? IMHO - YUP!
The majority of the countries on the list require u give something back to your country by way of some type of military service. Iceland, Luxemburg, and the Netherlands do not. It varies from full conscription or just basic training and a possible call up if needed. One of the greatest comments I ever heard from a politician (and will never hear again from either party) was John Kennedy "Don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country".
 
our US health insurance probably won't do us any good when traveling in Canada. At least Medicare probably won't. From what I read, unless u r on a direct route to Alaska if on Medicare u r SOL. I haven't ever bought travel insurance so I looked into it, and it is expensive.
I don’t know about Medicare, itself, but don’t we all have some supplement to Medicare?

Not just Medicare, alone?

I don’t really understand it all, but my current plan with Aetna, and before that with others such as Health Alliance, since retirement 16 years ago, cover me when traveling in the US, Canada and elsewhere for emergencies.

It would depend on your plan, who it is with and the plan within that you have selected, but I honestly don’t know that Medicare doesn’t cover us anywhere in the US.

I think it does, actually, as I have to have regular lab work, get that wherever I am, insurance covers it and Medicare always pays their part.

I’m not an insurance agent or expert, everyone needs to look at their own plan and speak with them before travel, which is what I do.
 

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