Wages and Unions - moved from: Things to do to keep feeling "normal" while living out of your van?

[Dirtrider]

That’s a little harsh, isn’t it?

Disability and food stamps?

I think he meant for those that take advantage of the services provided, not those that truly need them. Too many people receiving "free stuff" and never working for it if possible and FREE isn't free. It's taken from someone that earned it.
We can all find faults if you choose too but most people in the world overwhelmingly want to live in the USA. Just look at our southern borders..
Most aren't fleeing to Cuba, Venezuela, Laos, China, North Korea, Vietnam, etc..

 

[user 22017]

I think he meant for those that take advantage of the services provided, not those that truly need them. Too many people receiving "free stuff" and never working for it if possible and FREE isn't free. It's taken from someone that earned it.
We can all find faults if you choose too but most people in the world overwhelmingly want to live in the USA. Just look at our southern borders..
Most aren't fleeing to Cuba, Venezuela, Laos, China, North Korea, Vietnam, etc..

I think they are going to the closest country they have a chance at entering. The jobs pay much higher here than in Mexico.

 

[WanderingRose]

Well, disability and food stamps are all means tested, which means one has to prove that they meet the criteria/are below the thresholds established for eligibility.

I think it is a very dark hole to go down, making assumptions that people don’t deserve what they have qualified for, that they could have or should have done, whatever, differently.

You simply don’t know, 99% of the time.

And I don’t believe those kinds of statements belong on this forum, where many if not most struggle to make ends meet and take help where they can get it.

 

[user 22017]

Well, disability and food stamps are all means tested, which means one has to prove that they meet the criteria/are below the thresholds established for eligibility.

I think it is a very dark hole to go down, making assumptions that people don’t deserve what they have qualified for, that they could have or should have done, whatever, differently.

You simply don’t know, 99% of the time.

And I don’t believe those kinds of statements belong on this forum, where many if not most struggle to make ends meet and take help where they can get it.

Thanks, Rose.

 

[Gr8ful]

Credit cards & consumer debt is a scourge on America & it's people! It's like casinos. They both play on peoples nature. Everyone has known people who were way up in winnings & fed it all or more back to the casino. People who got credit cards "just in case of an emergency" until they see something they just have to get. If you're 62 or older, live on SS, SSI, SSDI, a retirement plan like an IRA, 401K, pension, etc you don't have to pay credit card debt, hospital & doctor bills or other unsecured debt. You can keep up too double your monthly income in a bank & they can't touch it. I helped a friend who was being harassed by debt collectors. https://www.helpsishere.org/ is a non profit law firm for seniors & disabled people who won't charge anything if you can't afford it & maybe a donation of $25 if you can. After they sent letters to his creditors he hasn't heard from even 1 debt collector. Pass this along as it may help people from eating dog food, not buying medicine, etc because of dealing with scumbag collectors.

 

[rruff]

While the difficulty faced by low-income people hold significant implications for their financial outlook, such hardship bears little on the wider economy since low-income people account for a relatively small share of overall consumer spending.

That sounds like some BS right there... show me your numbers, Mr Weller! Consumer spending is going to tank; everyone has burned through their windfall.

 

[Gr8ful]

Well, disability and food stamps are all means tested, which means one has to prove that they meet the criteria/are below the thresholds established for eligibility.

I think it is a very dark hole to go down, making assumptions that people don’t deserve what they have qualified for, that they could have or should have done, whatever, differently.

You simply don’t know, 99% of the time.

And I don’t believe those kinds of statements belong on this forum, where many if not most struggle to make ends meet and take help where they can get it.

I made NO assumptions about anyone. I was just stating what I payed in I am owed & SSI & SNAP I didn't pay into so it's not owed to me so it's charity. I'm not judging anyone.

 

[Gr8ful]

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.Also the truth about China coal​

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/27/nordic-countries-not-socialist-denmark-norway-sweden-centrist/

 

[rruff]

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.

Because they aren't socialist and never were. What they had and still have compared to the US, is much more extensive wage supports and social benefits. Economic freedom is also higher than the US.

 

[RonDean]

Just a few points...

* Capitalism CAUSES monopoly power when there is a high concentration of wealth and a lack of strong regulation. Regulation (which I agree is necessary to reign in excesses) is a form of government control and not a function of traditional capitalism. And yet, in today's world we see constant mergers and acquisitions in just about every industry and a very small number of individuals jockeying to see which is richer. I believe unregulated capitalism and concentrated wealth IS the problem and not the solution.

*I would also submit that labor unions would also not exist in a pure capitalism, and we would (will?) be back to the days of the robber barons and bad working conditions of that era without them Too many of us have bought into the idea that organized workers is a bad thing.

*Debt is a problem created by the few to enrich themselves. Our economy pretty much REQUIRES we have credit cards. Access to higher education drives a large portion of us into debt that are just starting out our careers and preventing an earlier access to investment and saving. Ask any recent college student how often credit cards are pushed on them. Even something as simple as watching TV now comes with streaming debt that would have left my parents aghast. My father refused to finance a car. Sure, he never had a new one, but the price of used ones was within his ability to save for. When the difference between the cost of living and income becomes too great, debt is the only avenue left for the majority of us. Do many people abuse or buy into that system too easily? Sure! But this is the only system available to us or we have ever known. I can't really blame that solely on the debtors.

* Immigration (as we currently know it) is OUR fault and is also a product of economics. A few people on both political sides have been saying we need to reform it as far back as I can remember, but it is far too helpful to many other politicians as a way to energize their base than to actually fix. If there was a workable legal immigration system the illegal one would soon dry up. Even a flawed program like the old "bracero" program was better than the nothing system we now have. As far as what many of the immigrants are running away from, THAT is fueled by us as well. US manufacturers produce the firepower (guns) that enable a small number of bad people to terrorize their population and prevent those countries from improving conditions. Profits from drug sales HERE pays for those guns. Our 1%ers reap the profits and are usually safely isolated from the results. But neither we nor the people fleeing terrorism or seeking a better life are so isolated.

 

[RonDean]

Denmark, Norway, and Sweden shouldn’t be held up as socialist utopias.Also the truth about China coal​

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/27/nordic-countries-not-socialist-denmark-norway-sweden-centrist/

I think many of us have said there are no "pure" economic systems in today's world. Neither "our" capitalism, or "their" socialism, or communism, or whatever country and system we might want to name.

However... they ARE more socialist than we are. And the top happiest countries >

• Finland
• Denmark
• Iceland
• Switzerland
• Netherlands
• Luxembourg
• Sweden
• Norway

*In the Nordic countries, education is free and publicly funded, and there are no tuition fees in higher education.
*The cost of healthcare in Scandinavian countries is publicly financed, which ensures that everyone has access to the region’s best medical facilities at no direct or minimal patient cost.
*They ARE dealing with problems like homelessness and climate change better.
* etc. etc. etc.

Perfect? NO. Better? IMHO - YUP!

 

[Gr8ful]

But Ron you're against oil & fossil fuel or so you say! Nordic countries produce 1/2 of the EUs oil & gas with 75% coming from Norway. You can't play both sides of the fence Ron!
https://www.nordicstatistics.org/ne...h-energy-as-the-eu-combined-thanks-to-norway/

 

[WanderingRose]

And there are downsides to free healthcare, such as the article in the last day or two about an infant in the UK, I believe it was, taken off life support over the objection of the parents.

You can’t take this free healthcare from Canada, for example, into the US, either, but must purchase healthcare for your trip…if you can get it and then afford it.

No perfect systems, tho the US could do better, imo.

 

[Gr8ful]

Three Nations That Tried Socialism and Rejected It​

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/three-nations-tried-socialism-and-rejected-it

Socialist Countries 2023​

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/socialist-countries If America is so bad which Socialist country listed above would you move to? Maybe Venezuela? Read the article below.
Who pays for all the so called free stuff like free education & health care? The citizens aka subjects do! I agree America could do better but is still the VERY BEST COUNTRY in the world!

Socialism: A Case Study on Venezuela​

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/10/27/nordic-countries-not-socialist-denmark-norway-sweden-centrist/

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^the problem is in my opinion(Lol!!!) we have allowed a big game of Monopoly to occur over several years and now we are at a point in the game there are only a few players left. Some form of socialism is required to reshuffle the chance cards so that capitalism has a chance to return from what we have now and allow more players to stay in the game. Competition from diverse development techniques improves the outcomes usually but monopolies prevent their influence from being felt as it may not be as profitable for those monopolies to continue with what they have by preventing competition from occurring. Yes there are people that put money over making our country better.

 

[Gr8ful]

Read the article below & tell me how socialism can help America. I DARE you!

​

Socialism: A Case Study on Venezuela​

https://www.thepolicycircle.org/minibrief/socialism-a-case-study-on-venezuela/

 

[rruff]

However... they ARE more socialist than we are.

socialism /sō′shə-lĭz″əm/
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

People seem to confuse having high taxation and high social benefits (which is the case in Nordic countries) with socialism, but these are different things.

One aspect in which they are more socialist is in healthcare... but this is true of every developed country compared to the US... and many that aren't developed! Why? Because a private healthcare system is inefficient. We spend twice as much and yet have crappy service and much shorter life expectancy! This happens because we have big special interests (insurance companies, and medical licensing and rules) staking out territory and milking it for all they can get!

This is an older chart regarding performance, but we are getting relatively worse, not better.

Life expectancy: The US ranks 59th in the world. Also, a fun fact is that life expectancy in the US peaked in 2015! It appears that the "people living longer" trend might be over.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

You can’t take this free healthcare from Canada, for example, into the US, either, but must purchase healthcare for your trip…if you can get it and then afford it.

Very strange that you pose that as an issue with Canadian healthcare, rather than US!? Oddly many countries that have universal healthcare will treat visitors the same as citizens if it is an emergency... ie it's free or nearly so. I don't know if Canada does though, since they'd get way too many people milking that from the US.

 

[WanderingRose]

I didn’t say Canadians couldn’t be treated in the US, but that their healthcare in Canada can’t be used in the US, Canada not paying for care outside it’s borders.

I believe that all states in the US must provide emergency care to anyone who comes thru their door, it’s the paying for it that Canadians must purchase insurance here for.

A very good friend of mine lives in Ontario, has a chronic illness and cannot get insurance in the US, so she hasn’t been here since before Covid as her late husband had a brain tumor and the same issue.

I don’t know that any care is free, unless you are indigent, and that would be a process, not an event.

I know that my health insurance can be used in other countries in an emergency, but I would have to pay for the care and then be reimbursed.

I have thankfully never needed to use it.

 

[Gr8ful]

Canadian healthcare sucks according to every Canadian I've discussed it with. Long waits & long drives for services. I sold a set of floats to a very nice Canadian couple. Her mother waited 4 months to get a broken hip fixed. Many Canadians come to the US & pay cash for surgeries. Cash gets much cheaper prices for them & US residents. The best & cheapest (free) healthcare is Medicaid. Once again not for people who worked & paid into the system their whole life or were in the military (VA) Medicare is charity again.

 

[bullfrog !]

I need to apologize for my ignorance and my inability to use the correct wording for describing the systems and policies I deal with from my view point. As I stated previously the military was the solution I chose to get out of poverty. The government furnished clothing, housing, food, health care, technical training and helped pay for a college education. During the 7 years I was enlisted I gave up many freedoms I had in civilian life but those were returned once I decided to get out at the end of my contract with the government. I feel every citizen should experience the military or something similar not only to appreciate the freedoms they have in civilian life but also to appreciate the fact that many people are enabled by the assistance the government provides and serving others only makes life better for everyone. My primary provider when I asked him about “socialized medicine coming to the United States” said “In a way it’s already here. The VA system is sort of or very close to socialized medicine for veterans in the USA.” Many different programs in the past like the CCC or WPA I believe provided similar military type experiences. The government needs to enact laws and programs to enable people to become more productive. In my opinion they will more than pay for themselves in the long term, in the short term give employees more say in improving productivity and when profits increase give them a percentage of the profit. Until we have a vibrant middle class again tax the upper class to pay for it. As my grandmother used to say “You can’t get blood out of a turnip!” The increased productivity will eventually catch up in my opinion.