The discrimination of the van Life community in America

[Gr8ful]

I used to buy GA planes, parts & Ultralights to fund my flying. Bought a new partly put together Quicksilver in Canada. Took my youngest son, had proof it was made in North America for NAFTA, all my paperwork lined up on the visor along with mi license. The plane was 1/2 in the truck & the other half on a trailer both tarped. Told my son we'd be a couple of hours at the border. They searched the truck in front of me then an agent walked up said "your kid?" I said yes & he waved me thru, didn't even see my license or ask what Iwas hauling. My buddy who was Canadian always got detained for a couple of hours but he tried to make small talk like how's your day going, etc. I learned from him to just answer the questions, no more & I never had a problem.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

^^^ Where the heck do you live that feels they can tax like that? I paid for a sidewalk once but the whole street!

It's an assessment not a tax: the cost is shared by those who live on the road.
Who do you think should pay for it?
People who live on feeder, county, or state roads are assessed differently. But those roads see lots of traffic and are noisy. Mine is a residential neighborhood road.

 

[Happy Camper]

I have been in and out of Canada three times, and my ClassB searched thoroughly coming back in every time.

I have no criminal background, last two times just an old widow and her dog.

Why did you let an old widow and her dog search your Class B?
/s

 

[bullfrog !]

It's an assessment not a tax: the cost is shared by those who live on the road.
Who do you think should pay for it?
People who live on feeder, county, or state roads are assessed differently. But those roads see lots of traffic and are noisy. Mine is a residential neighborhood road.

Most residential roads that have ambulance, police, school bus routes and just for public safety require services like snow removal and proper maintenance and are quickly turned over by the developers to the county as they are properly equipped to efficiently maintain them. There are still private roads on private property but those are usually driveways or large ranches or farms. I didn’t know of any older or well established residential communities that still required property owners to fund public road repairs. Caballo Loco still does road maintenance into the ranch as part of an agreement with the state trust and BLM lands but it is one of the few because of it’s unique location. Guess I just haven’t been in many places where the people living on a public road share the costs. I have seen it occur with sidewalks but seldom a main road.

 

[user 36441]

Most residential roads that have ambulance, police, school bus routes and just for public safety require services like snow removal and proper maintenance and are quickly turned over by the developers to the county as they are properly equipped to efficiently maintain them. There are still private roads on private property but those are usually driveways or large ranches or farms. I didn’t know of any older or well established residential communities that still required property owners to fund public road repairs. Caballo Loco still does road maintenance into the ranch as part of an agreement with the state trust and BLM lands but it is one of the few because of it’s unique location. Guess I just haven’t been in many places where the people living on a public road share the costs. I have seen it occur with sidewalks but seldom a main road.

Bullfrog - what makes Caballo Loco's location unique?

 

[GypsyHobo]

We seem to accept that we must be "stealthy" if we pull over in a populated area for the night or even a few days. Why? I am pretty sure most of us pay taxes that go into road infrastructure. As long as we are not causing a problem I just don't understand why we should have to hide. And why do we buy into it?

We bow to it because we must. For now.

I am angry that things are this way but you have to look at some factors.

The people in this lifestyle are under attack from the powers that be. And so they pass laws that hinder us and we get harassed. Sometimes for little reason.

Add to that the fact that a huge percentage of people out there are fearful and many don't agree with this lifestyle.

Heck I've had neighbors that didn't want anyone parking in the street around their house and would scream at us and threaten to call the cops even though we lived right next door and the car was a regular car. I would invite them to call the police and remind them that it was a public street. Of course the police were not called because I was correct but you see what I mean. People are even getting shot just for being on or around some fearful person's property. No Thanks!

Things are getting crazy out there. This is not a battle we can win by fighting in the streets with police/security and neighbors. So until we can change things -Rise up and Vote!- I think our best bet is to adapt. The best way to live is to be like water.

 

[RonDean]

We bow to it because we must. For now.

I am angry that things are this way but you have to look at some factors.

The people in this lifestyle are under attack from the powers that be. And so they pass laws that hinder us and we get harassed. Sometimes for little reason.

Add to that the fact that a huge percentage of people out there are fearful and many don't agree with this lifestyle.

Heck I've had neighbors that didn't want anyone parking in the street around their house and would scream at us and threaten to call the cops even though we lived right next door and the car was a regular car. I would invite them to call the police and remind them that it was a public street. Of course the police were not called because I was correct but you see what I mean. People are even getting shot just for being on or around some fearful person's property. No Thanks!

Things are getting crazy out there. This is not a battle we can win by fighting in the streets with police/security and neighbors. So until we can change things -Rise up and Vote!- I think our best bet is to adapt. The best way to live is to be like water.

Gypsy,
Thanks for your reply to my post. I think you "got" what I was putting down. I made a simple observation and expressed my opinion on it. End of story.

I remember when I was young and my wife would do the same thing. When I kept trying to "solve" the problem she became even more exasperated. It took me a few years, but I finally "got it" and stopped trying to be her problem solver unless she actually ask me to. On this subject, I could not agree with you more. I honestly don't know how we can get the fearful people to stop being that way. There are just too many voices telling them how dangerous the world is.

I never miss a change to vote and try to toss the scoundrels out. And I don't demonize to police just for trying to enforce the laws they are given. I think when we express opinions it might actually change a mind here or there and eventually enough of us can get the laws/rules changed. As far as being like water, I am reminded that is what created the Grand Canyon.

 

[user 36441]

It happened again guys! My van got profiled... I'm staying in a hotel and came down to walk my dogs to find a notice on my van without being towed in 24 hours problem is the parking pass issued to me by the hotel was presented in Plainview on my rearview....

I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this and it's happened in so many different ways. I've been denied jobs, fired from jobs, harassed by police minding my own business in Walmart parking lots... The list goes on.

We need to start this discussion within the community because the stigma just keeps getting thicker with our silence. Sure it's easy to escape Babylon and live in our own worlds but when we jump into society things can get difficult and when it comes to police officers nine times out of 10 they don't know the law and make things up on the side of the road.

Are there any groups speaking out against this? And if not why not start the discussion now. Drop your horror stories below and let's just open the floor up. I don't even think we talk about it with each other but it's super important and if we don't step up now it may get to the point where laws are made that prevent us from living the lifestyles we want.

We might also consider that when hard-working people look at us they either get secretly jealous of our carefree lifestyle, or they resent us because they think we are not doing our fair share to "keep the country moving".
And I think the government doesn't like us because we're not good little worker ants for the state.

Maybe we should get involved in some sort of group philanthropy work, like the bikers with their charity work, to improve our image.

 

[Happy Camper]

Many many years ago a lady decided that she would park in front of my house and live in her car. My then wife was pregnant and it stressed her out. I asked the lady if she could please park elsewhere and she refused. She had mild schizophrenia, and had some things she believed that made her refuse.

There were plenty of options as it was an area that had many places to park that weren't in front of a/my house which were just fine. A few times I politely tried to talk to her and even offered some ideas of how to find help so she wasn't in that situation. She refused any advice and was rather hostile with my requesting she relocate, if only around the corner or in front of the church that was literally next door.

I finally had to call the police, who came out a few times with bad results. Her yelling, them trying to be kind while firm. So it went on and finally I had had enough. I called the police and went up the chain. They found the correct statue and asked her to please please move her car. She refused. They towed it.

It really sucked, and I felt terrible. But I was also relieved and thankful it was over. Ironically, I ended up meeting her son, who was a good guy. I apologized for having her car towed, and told him I felt bad about it. He said he completely understood and would have done the same thing if it were him. She refused help from her family and friends. And she was stuck in her situation because of that.

To this day I feel sad about that entire situation. But I would do it again.

When you're upset about people not understanding your exact situation, remember this. There are a lot of people that have dealt with her situation more than your situation. And no one really wants to sit down to talk and find out which it is.

So you can be angry they "people don't care", or that "people feel a certain way" about those living in vehicles. But in their eyes it doesn't look that different, and it's a stressful situation.

You could be a good person just living your life.
You could be mentally challenged and be somewhat erratic.
You could be living a lifestyle that includes things they don't want to be around. Drugs, alcohol, and many other things.
Or you could just be poor and in a bad situation and making the best of it.

I think most people understand that these situations exist. They just don't know which one you're in. And it's not their job to figure it out.

So be respectful. Take care of your things. Show consideration. And if people have a problem with you being by their place, it isn't that hard to move to another spot. Easier for you than for them to move most certainly.

There are jerks everywhere. Living in sticks and bricks. Living in vehicles. Don't assume they should see the best case scenario because you know who you are. They don't know what they don't know. And again. It's not their job to figure it out.

 

[VanFan]

Never been to one. Don't know what it is. I pretty much just do me and not really into gatherings.
Unless it involves bees
I am totally up for anything bee related at any time. Been a beekeeper for over 30 years. Before covid I was paid to travel and speak at bee clubs.

Bees have clubs? Oh, right... hives (or is that from allergies?). Sorry. Can't help it sometimes. Bees ARE cool!

 

[Texas Gypsy]

Beekeepers have clubs. Mostly so we have others to argue with

 

[Happy Camper]

I love bee songs.



Other bug songs as well.

 

[Dingfelder]

I imagine people here have a very wide range of opinions of "the police" -- and an equally wide range of personal experiences with them. A statement that they "don't know the law" and "make things up" is over-broad, not provable, and veering awfully close to a couple of things that are discouraged on this forum: (1) politics and (2) denigrating whole groups of people.

Encouraging people to "drop horror stories" has a strong Us-vs-Them vibe to it. In practice, it tends to make people feel more powerless, not less. Instead, how about a focus on what exactly you think needs to change and how people could work towards that?

Since this is, after all, USA/Planet Earth, there's never a shortage of horror stories. It is notoriously difficult for small social groups to accomplish their aims in isolation -- especially if they present their specialized grievances as the main/only priority. Maybe a broader sense of shared concerns with other people would lead to more practical ways to move forward.

Also, it's not unusual for a community to try to protect itself, in both heThealthy and unhealthy ways. Something you despise enough to refer to as Babylon and energetically isolate yourself from is not likely to welcome you with open arms when you decide it's more convenient for you to temporarily access it again.

A stronger focus on concrete goals -- and positive action steps to get there -- might have a greater chance of success. So would greater awareness that we are all in this together.

PS
I didn't quite understand why, if you were staying in a hotel, you considered action aimed at your vehicle to be aimed at a vandweller.
And I wonder (it is a neutral question, not an insinuation -- I don't know the answer) whether your vehicle in some way stood out from other vehicles with hotel permits. If not, then what is it that you believe attracted police attention to it?

The response seems very weird to me since it was on private property. I am thinking that it might be because of expired registration? That's something the cops routinely cite.

 

[Gr8ful]

It wasn't the cops, it was motel security.

 

[Morgana]

It wasn't the cops, it was motel security.

So far it appears that the entire reason for this thread is that one of the lowest paid and most poorly trained and screened workers in America made one bad call. Not exactly a stop-the-presses incident.

Several legitimate questions have gone unanswered, and depending on the answers, it may not even have been a bad call. Meanwhile, the OP seems to have bailed on the thread.

Seems like a case of "let's you and him fight." Life has many rough edges; not all of them cry to heaven for revolutionary justice. Let's not get our chains yanked.

(No disrespect, though, to the many good posts above!)

 

[john*thomas]

I have been in and out of Canada three times, and my ClassB searched thoroughly coming back in every time.

I have no criminal background, last two times just an old widow and her dog.

And that is why I have made my last trip into Canada. Not worth the hassle of getting back in.

 

[WanderingRose]

I am not willing to allow overzealous border guards dictate my travel plans.

I know I’m not carrying anything illegal nor otherwise violating laws, so I just let them do their thing and not give them the satisfaction of getting upset.

 

[jacqueg]

I am not willing to allow overzealous border guards dictate my travel plans.

I know I’m not carrying anything illegal nor otherwise violating laws, so I just let them do their thing and not give them the satisfaction of getting upset.

I think acting bored is one of the best ways to get someone to stop bugging you...

 

[RVTravel]

nm

 

[NctryBen]

So far it appears that the entire reason for this thread is that one of the lowest paid and most poorly trained and screened workers in America made one bad call. Not exactly a stop-the-presses incident.

Several legitimate questions have gone unanswered, and depending on the answers, it may not even have been a bad call. Meanwhile, the OP seems to have bailed on the thread.

Seems like a case of "let's you and him fight." Life has many rough edges; not all of them cry to heaven for revolutionary justice. Let's not get our chains yanked.

(No disrespect, though, to the many good posts above!)

That was my thoughts too. Bugs me when people are quick to say discrimination. Especially with little info. I’d say laws that appear to be negative to Van life may have little to do with Van life but more to do with other issues. If it’s a good spot to park for the night near or in a big town could be a perfect spot for drug dealing activities or other situations. So when people are sharing good out of the way spots, well... thing no one else is listening. There was quite a bit of that activity in Quartzsite’s ltva’s year before last.