The discrimination of the van Life community in America

[abnorm]

Were the Dogs IN the van ?

 

[Morgana]

a number of unanswered questions here

 

[Morgana]

border patrol ... They harass me and search me 3/4 of the time

OK, I don't want to derail this conversation but I have a side question. In the last year and a half I've passed many immigration checkpoints in TX, NM, and AZ and have almost never been stopped. For the past ~6 months the back of my SUV has had a bunch of lumpy objects covered with a moving blanket and nobody has even looked sideways at it. I could have a baby giraffe in there.

Not complaining, mind you! Just curious. Half the checkpoints just have a green "go" sign and most of the rest just some bored-looking guy waving people on. Compared to my last time on the border (~2011-2013), it seems super inactive now. Seems weird given the current fuss about immigration.

I don't know if it's just me -- like that James McMurtry song, "you pose no danger and you're such a disgrace" lol -- or if those checkpoints have really slowed way down. By now it would be a heck of a lot of coincidences if it was just coincidence. Demographically, I am three years older than dirt and terminally Caucasian, so I'm probably not their #1 target, but they seem to be waving everybody through.

Idly curious. (Also knocking wood now that I've blabbed all that.)

I now return you to your previously scheduled thread.

 

[user 36441]

I know you're not gonna want to hear this, but your screen name and photo imply that, not only do you smoke weed, but you make it your lifestyle. I smoked weed for 20 years and I know the lifestyle and the trouble it can bring. I think there's a certain karma that comes with the doper lifestyle, and you may be feeling it.

 

[Texas Gypsy]

OK, I don't want to derail this conversation but I have a side question. In the last year and a half I've passed many immigration checkpoints in TX, NM, and AZ and have almost never been stopped. For the past ~6 months the back of my SUV has had a bunch of lumpy objects covered with a moving blanket and nobody has even looked sideways at it. I could have a baby giraffe in there.

Not complaining, mind you! Just curious. Half the checkpoints just have a green "go" sign and most of the rest just some bored-looking guy waving people on. Compared to my last time on the border (~2011-2013), it seems super inactive now. Seems weird given the current fuss about immigration.

I don't know if it's just me -- like that James McMurtry song, "you pose no danger and you're such a disgrace" lol -- or if those checkpoints have really slowed way down. By now it would be a heck of a lot of coincidences if it was just coincidence. Demographically, I am three years older than dirt and terminally Caucasian, so I'm probably not their #1 target, but they seem to be waving everybody through.

Idly curious. (Also knocking wood now that I've blabbed all that.)

I now return you to your previously scheduled thread.

LOL I should have been more specific. I get waved through the interior checkpoints too..... even when driving my truck with Sinaloa plates! All I have to do is open my mouth with this deep Texas drawl and they know I'm from here! I did have one once that kept insisting on speaking Spanish to me. He was doing it to be a jerk. I answered him in English though I speak Spanish and told him in my best deep drawl that we are on the north side of the Rio Grande!

Where I get harassed is crossing the border from Mexico back into the US. I'm a Permanent Resident of Mexico and was retired there until covid put finished on my kidneys and I had to come back to get on the transplant list.
I used to live on the Texas Chihuahua border and went shopping in Mexico all the time. I have crossed well over 100 times. All of it's in the computer. I crossed at the Mariposa crossing rather than my regular crossing in Texas and was questioned about it the next time I went through my regular crossing.
The crossing at Mariposa was a 3 hour ordeal in the heat with an employee yelling at me. I had an empty cargo trailer and they were convinced I was a criminal mastermind. The dog was bored of going through the completely empty trailer
I finally told him to release me or I was going to call the real cops!

 

[bullfrog !]

The border patrol stations I pass through I believe use several sensors and thermal cameras before you get to the actual officer manning the station so they probably already have a good idea of what they are dealing with before you stop.

 

[LargeMarge]

I worked in three penitentiary settings.
If a convict came to me with a grievance, I would suggest bringing it to our grievance committee next time we met.
.
Nine hundred ninety-nine times out of a thousand, other little local dramas consumed their attention and they forgot about it by the next day.
.
I have my guard card with the responsibilities it entails.
Based on my experience, I think security merely need to justify their existence until the next shift.
In my experience, the vast majority of security are just wasting hours until they die.
.
In other words, I tend to focus on the important stuff.
.
PS:
Two decades full-time live-aboard, our only motel stay was while the rig was in the shop getting an overnight coolant system flush.
The room was massive!, two beds!, and a television set! with unlimited televisionprogramming!.
Although the staff did their best with what they had, the touted breakfast buffet deserved zero exclamation marks.

 

[Morgana]

In my 20s (which I am not claiming to have spent wisely), I got a ride once, with a friend of a friend, from Glasgow to Berlin. She was a fairly well-to-do professional type, maybe 5-10 years older than me. I was a college drop-out. She dressed nicely. I dressed in jeans and an army jacket. When we got off the ferry the Dutch border cop asked how much money we had. She said her respectable sum, I said $10. (In my pea-brained logic, we were only transiting and I had a place to stay at the other end, so why would they care?) (Answer: because apparently lots of people like me stayed and became a drain on government services, and they didn't have a crystal ball to prove that I was a Nice Person and would never do that.)

We spent eight hours waiting for them to verify that I had a credible means of support at the other end.
Which meant that she, poor thing (I couldn't drive), had to fight off sleep all the way across East Germany because they timed your entry/exit and you couldn't exactly pull over and take a nap.

A lonnnnnng day. She never said a word of complaint.

It took years before I realized that I was the idiot in that story.

 

[Happy Camper]

HC,
I get where you are coming from and then I don't. IMO, forums like this one are sometimes for asking for help, suggestions, and solutions. Probably the best and highest usage of a forum.

But, I also see nothing wrong with reporting events or opinions and not seeking any of the above. Even, and maybe especially, those things we know there are no immediate solutions for. Sometimes it feels good to just vent.

I'll clarify. If you want to vent and go on a rant, I'm good with it. Just let me know that's what it is. Then I can relax and let you get it out without having to give it much thought.

If you are complaining about a specific situation, then complain about it, and we can figure out what a good solution, or a good way of approaching it might be.

If you want to complain about one thing, conflate it with other things that aren't actually the same thing, give wrong information, and expect me to be outraged that life isn't fair due to a confusing mix of personal feelings and situations that may or may not be accurate, then I'm going to call you on it.

Because if you want to do the last one, the thread title should more accurately be "Things that suck and I'm frustrated about". Then give your rant, and invite others to do the same. To me, the first post was rather vague, confusing, and could easily be interpreted as disingenuous if someone were inclined to read the actual post in detail. And most likely just someone frustrated in the moment.

I'm not saying being upset about obvious actual problems those in this lifestyle is wrong. It is. And it's unfortunately more common than it should be. And the reasons aren't always as clear as we'd line them to be.

And maybe we should have an "I'm frustrated about these things that suck" thread. But this one isn't it.

 

[BelgianPup]

Texas Gypsy,
I went to my mechanic maybe a year ago, and a couple were discussing border crossings. The woman had the same complaints as you. The man said he had had the same experience (I don't where), and he finally asked the crossing guard WHY. The guard said, "We just go by the numbers".

Since he had apparently been using the same crossings, he tried another one the next time, and he had no problems. So, maybe you could try another entry point and see if there's much difference.

I don't know personally, since the only time I went into Mexico was about 45 years ago, and leaving only took about a minute.

 

[WanderingRose]

I have been in and out of Canada three times, and my ClassB searched thoroughly coming back in every time.

I have no criminal background, last two times just an old widow and her dog.

 

[Texas Gypsy]

Texas Gypsy,
I went to my mechanic maybe a year ago, and a couple were discussing border crossings. The woman had the same complaints as you. The man said he had had the same experience (I don't where), and he finally asked the crossing guard WHY. The guard said, "We just go by the numbers".

Since he had apparently been using the same crossings, he tried another one the next time, and he had no problems. So, maybe you could try another entry point and see if there's much difference.

I don't know personally, since the only time I went into Mexico was about 45 years ago, and leaving only took about a minute.

I have a suspicion. I have asked and don't get an answer.
When I lived near the border and crossed all the time my ex was usually with me. My ex is the Grand Poobah of A Holishness!
He had a mule deer run over him (if you know, you know) and took the truck to Mexico to be fixed. Got the truck back and about 3 border crossings later BP noticed the color of the truck was different. Turns out the US has some sort of fee if you get automotive repair out of country!
Just so happened I wasn't with him that time so there was no restraint on him. No tellings what he said or how he acted
For the next year they had me pull over to the left to have my vehicle x-rayed every time I crossed. Normally this is only done on Mexicans coming over to shop....not on US citizens. The first time I was put in line an employee came up to my car and told me in Spanish to get out of my car and stand on the other side of the blue line. Nope....I don't speak Spanish on this side of the border. So I told him in English that I didn't understand him. He looked puzzled and said No habla Español? Yep I no habla. So he hiked over to the main building to get someone that spoke English to tell me to get out and step on the other side of the blue line. It's quite a hike from there to the x-ray line . Each and every time they made me do this .
Ok, so maybe my ex and I are a better match than I realized
They finally got tired of that song and dance and quit doing it. They almost HAVE to have flagged my passport! That happened well over 10 years ago.

 

[RonDean]

We seem to accept that we must be "stealthy" if we pull over in a populated area for the night or even a few days. Why? I am pretty sure most of us pay taxes that go into road infrastructure. As long as we are not causing a problem I just don't understand why we should have to hide. And why do we buy into it?

 

[WanderingRose]

We seem to accept that we must be "stealthy" if we pull over in a populated area for the night or even a few days. Why? I am pretty sure most of us pay taxes that go into road infrastructure. As long as we are not causing a problem I just don't understand why we should have to hide. And why do we buy into it?

Because of local ordinances that often restrict and define where one may park, not in certain vehicles and during certain times of day or night.

When I am traveling I am pretty free with the “if it’s not posted…”, and parking for a night, but I am careful so as to avoid being rousted from sleep.

 

[Texas Gypsy]

Yep.... it's that whole don't want to be woke up and have to put on clothes thing.

 

[Morgana]

I am pretty sure most of us pay taxes that go into road infrastructure. As long as we are not causing a problem I just don't understand why we should have to hide.

But paying taxes is not like walking into a shop and buying something -- you don't expect to get a direct benefit in return for everything you spend. For example, many of us who have no children are still happy to see our tax money go to schools.

I get things I could never hope to pay for with my own tax payments -- including an education, emergency services, and parks and recreation. I think other people have said this better in other threads, but --- just because something is public/tax-supported doesn't mean we get to do anything with it we want.

Deciding what is "causing a problem" is also a little more complicated than that. For example, (1) choices can have unintended consequences, (2) there may be factors you or I are unaware of (even more true when we're in an unfamiliar community), (3) one person may not have a heavy impact directly, but tolerating that one person may open the door to 1000 people, who may have a devastating impact, and (4) most communities don't have the staffing, funding, patience, or insurance to provide the kind of oversight that would be necessary if you loosened up the rules. What we think of when we size up a situation for 5 minutes is not the same as what lawyers, engineers, cops, and social workers see when they spend years studying a thing.

Sure, there are bad laws, and we should challenge those -- in specific, concrete, practical ways. And bad lawmakers, who we should vote out. But the fact that this system requires compromises, and we don't always get what we want (or even what we deserve)? I'm pretty sure that comes with the territory.

 

[Texas Gypsy]

But paying taxes is not like walking into a shop and buying something -- you don't expect to get a direct benefit in return for everything you spend. For example, many of us who have no children are still happy to see our tax money go to schools.

I get things I could never hope to pay for with my own tax payments -- including an education, emergency services, and parks and recreation. I think other people have said this better in other threads, but --- just because something is public/tax-supported doesn't mean we get to do anything with it we want.

Deciding what is "causing a problem" is also a little more complicated than that. For example, (1) choices can have unintended consequences, (2) there may be factors you or I are unaware of (even more true when we're in an unfamiliar community), (3) one person may not have a heavy impact directly, but tolerating that one person may open the door to 1000 people, who may have a devastating impact, and (4) most communities don't have the staffing, funding, patience, or insurance to provide the kind of oversight that would be necessary if you loosened up the rules. What we think of when we size up a situation for 5 minutes is not the same as what lawyers, engineers, cops, and social workers see when they spend years studying a thing.

Sure, there are bad laws, and we should challenge those -- in specific, concrete, practical ways. And bad lawmakers, who we should vote out. But the fact that this system requires compromises, and we don't always get what we want (or even what we deserve)? I'm pretty sure that comes with the territory.

At one point I didn't mind funding schools. Seeing what public schools are churning out now.......I am getting ripped off.

 

[user 36441]

We seem to accept that we must be "stealthy" if we pull over in a populated area for the night or even a few days. Why? I am pretty sure most of us pay taxes that go into road infrastructure. As long as we are not causing a problem I just don't understand why we should have to hide. And why do we buy into it?

A small minority of us have given nomad life a bad name by leaving trash, making noise, etc.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

..... I am pretty sure most of us pay taxes that go into road infrastructure .....

You don't pay for local roads unless you pay local taxes. Federal gas tax goes to building and maintenance of federal roads, state gas taxes go to building and repair of state roads, with some help from both to 'feeder' local roads. Local roads are paid for by local property taxes and assessments to those living on the road (same for commercial).

30 years ago I paid $23,000 for 800 sq.ft. of road in front of my house. 5 years ago I paid $13,000 for milling, repair, and resurfacing of the road. My city owns the road and has broad authority over its use (within state guidelines). Almost all fed and state roads around here are 'Emergency Parking Only'.

As long as we are not causing a problem I just don't understand why we should have to hide .....

You can't. We have a lot of children playing in the yards and street; parents are watching and want to know who is parking beside their children. The county sheriff patrol cars have license plate readers; they know if you are local or not. Half the houses have outside cameras. It's almost impossible to move inside a vehicle without it rocking. People know; and they will complain if they feel unsafe.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^ Where the heck do you live that feels they can tax like that? I paid for a sidewalk once but the whole street!