When it's time to stop.

[Malamute]

Good thoughts. Thanks for the report. For my money, 4000 ft is just too low , forcing most away during hot months.
That is then just not a solution for those that just 'want to stop'. After 2 decades of adjusting elevation for best temperatures, I am convinced that staying warm at 7000 ft is easier than staying cool on the low desert. Also, one can dress for winter cold for being outdoors, but how do you dress for 105 degrees on the low desert?

Its my opinion that staying cool is easier than staying warm. Cooling down in a dry environment isnt that difficult, a swamp cooler takes relatively little power, if you have solar or grid power and water you can cool down. In that elevation and climate it cools significantly at night. 105 isnt really that hot in the dry, dressing for it is shorts and t shirt, shade makes a huge difference as does any air movement. When visiting a friend that lived in the Verde, we'd hang tight through the mid day heat of 90s and 100+ deg, when it broke in the late afternoon it sort of tripped the trigger for activity to go do fun stuff. Mornings are awesome, cool, fresh feeling, until late morning. If you HAVE to be out in it you can, but we didnt, so just stayed in mostly during that hot period mid day. Its also not a bad time to do driving stuff, shopping, whatever.

I did a dark brown metal roof job in 100-103 temps with 2 other old guys, we took plenty of water/gatorade breaks, sat on the porch for breaks, then dove in again. 3 days and we had it done with a fair bit of complicated bits to fit. Ive done other work outside all day in 100+ temps, staying hydrated is the main issue, then sunscreen if exposed. I used to buy 5-6 or so cases of gatorade at a time, drink a gallon of gatorade and gallon of water per day working then go home and hang in the AC in my cabin. It was doable. I absolutely detest trying to work in the cold despite that I used to love winter and camping in the winter and snow. In looking for a place again in Az, if it snows much, Im not interested. I also have little desire to live in low desert, but high desert, yes. At this point Im intending to never deal with serious cold or snow beyond the decorative type again.

I absolutely plan to spend time in S Az exploring. Probably wont move to that part of the state, but there is enough high country to beat the heat if one wants to go for a drive or ride when lower elevations warm up during the daytime.

Just some thoughts.

 

[RonDean]

Ron, Again, good thoughts. Mary-Anne is the one with 150 acres to sell...I will get in touch to see what her land might fetch. Since there is a house, I think, the whole package could get close to 500k. She seems fixed on Arizona for her project, perhaps because of her daughters work. Owner financing sure would be the simplest, especially an owner that had a stake in the reasonable compatibility of the lot owners. Many 'landlords' will require a background check, and possibly a certain credit score.

FYI, I am a little slow in learning how to navigate this site. EG, after 7 months I just discovered the menu on the upper right, and the "messages" icon in the extreme upper right. TBS, I have a couple of Q. 1. Since I started this dialogue with
pm, is your response, and now this response private? 2. How does one create a new thread? And is it private or need to be? I nthink it is not private now bc Ruff and Bullfrog chimed in with great thoughts. Brain empty now

BTW, I recently made the acquaintance of a gal in Walla Walla. So searched and the climate seems darn good for 10-12 months of the year. No mugginess during the warm months. What part of the NW are you in? Why do you like it?

RE: Public and private messages. A reply to THIS message would be public. A reply to a private message (I believe) would remain private. But, I am far from an expert in how this forum works.

I like Walla Walla or any NW location east of the coastal mountains. Right now I am on the Oregon coast trying to accomplish some van construction between rain storms and having no sheltered workshop. It's very frustrating and slowing my progress considerably. There are lots for sale in the Klamath area I have been considering. But northern AZ has also appealed to me. I am VERY open minded on location. But, the lower the density of people - the better are the odds of finding more affordable and suitable property. Nor would I want to spend any winters in the midwest or east. Been there, done that, didn't like it.

 

[camperdan]

Its my opinion that staying cool is easier than staying warm. Cooling down in a dry environment isnt that difficult, a swamp cooler takes relatively little power, if you have solar or grid power and water you can cool down. In that elevation and climate it cools significantly at night. 105 isnt really that hot in the dry, dressing for it is shorts and t shirt, shade makes a huge difference as does any air movement. When visiting a friend that lived in the Verde, we'd hang tight through the mid day heat of 90s and 100+ deg, when it broke in the late afternoon it sort of tripped the trigger for activity to go do fun stuff. Mornings are awesome, cool, fresh feeling, until late morning. If you HAVE to be out in it you can, but we didnt, so just stayed in mostly during that hot period mid day. Its also not a bad time to do driving stuff, shopping, whatever.

I did a dark brown metal roof job in 100-103 temps with 2 other old guys, we took plenty of water/gatorade breaks, sat on the porch for breaks, then dove in again. 3 days and we had it done with a fair bit of complicated bits to fit. Ive done other work outside all day in 100+ temps, staying hydrated is the main issue, then sunscreen if exposed. I used to buy 5-6 or so cases of gatorade at a time, drink a gallon of gatorade and gallon of water per day working then go home and hang in the AC in my cabin. It was doable. I absolutely detest trying to work in the cold despite that I used to love winter and camping in the winter and snow. In looking for a place again in Az, if it snows much, Im not interested. I also have little desire to live in low desert, but high desert, yes. At this point Im intending to never deal with serious cold or snow beyond the decorative type again.

I absolutely plan to spend time in S Az exploring. Probably wont move to that part of the state, but there is enough high country to beat the heat if one wants to go for a drive or ride when lower elevations warm up during the daytime.

Just some thoughts.

RE Ideal Elevation When We Stop Some good thinking on your part: thanks for sharing that . I have adjusted my thinking, and having experience living in Phoenix in the summer as a teen, a large swamp cooler is all you need. If a
nomad settles into a spot for the majority of the year (semi permanent), it would be reasonable to have a good-size
swamp cooler on a platform outside one's rig, or mfr house, mobile home, etc. So now my target would be to avoid the cold more so than avoid the heat. I think 4500-5000 ft would work well.

Lots of good spots at 4500 ft give or take, in SE Arizona. Sierra Vista area , Bisbee. And both have RV parks that are
quite reasonable. Google DOUBLE ADOBE RV PARK near Bisbee. Very good experience for a month that I stayed there
a couple of years ago. It is not the typical layout of packed in like sardines.

 

[vanwinkle]

True. But wouldn't it fit into the itinerary at some point?
The year I lived there, they had a hard freeze, worse than they are used to, and /everybody's/ plumbing burst. All the hardware stores, including in Las Cruces, were madhouses. I had to drive to Socorro (4 hour round trip) for a 97-cent plumbing gizmo. I bought two and still have the other one somewhere around here for a souvenir.

It's a good jumping-off point for day trips IMO -- both Rockhound and City of Rocks state parks are easy day trips; also Lake Valley ghost town, and Palomas, Chihuahua, home of the very gringo-friendly Pink Store. It has a bunch of decent Mexican restaurants, some artsy stuff, and a nice free museum with a lot of Mimbres pottery, a huge doll collection, and a Braille Playboy.

If mid 90s and 50s are your problem....where I grew up 110 is walk down the street weather and the fog freezes in the winter--and that's nor cal valley for you.

 

[Malamute]

I dont care much for Phx in the summer, but the Verde area is my main interest, it breaks over 100 off and on through the summer, cools off nicely for the most part at night, gets minor amounts of snow in the winter, has a good monsoon season most years that cool it off in the summer heat for a couple hours. Thats the Goldilocks area for me, besides being familiar with it and know people. One of the little outlying communities outside of Sedona would suit me fine.

 

[bullfrog !]

A lot will depend on mobility. Falls are a problem as you age. Snow, ice and even wet surfaces can be huge concerns for elderly people. Air conditioning or a heater can deal with extremes but for me mainly warmer climates are easier to deal with. Not to mention the desert tends to be flat so walks or bike rides can be as difficult as you want to make them by changing their length.

 

[Malamute]

A lot will depend on mobility. Falls are a problem as you age. Snow, ice and even wet surfaces can be huge concerns for elderly people. Air conditioning or a heater can deal with extremes but for me mainly warmer climates are easier to deal with. Not to mention the desert tends to be flat so walks or bike rides can be as difficult as you want to make them by changing their length.

A large part of my extreme dislike of winter now is after a disabling injury on ice, its a permanent condition. I turned into a broken down old geezer in a relatively short period of time after the injury. At this point I have absolutely zero interest in being where theres snow or having to shovel or drive in it, though the wet spring snow that comes and is gone in a couple hours isnt too bad and doesnt have ice associated with it much.

I like hills and canyons to hike and motor around in, large areas to drive or ride the motorcycle around on dirt roads is a major factor in my choices also. Im not going rock climbing but hiking I like. I can get around, if more slowly than in the past. Im not doing any really long hikes yet, I dont know what I can build up to yet. Getting more shots helps at least for a few weeks. If I have to use a hiking stick or poles, so be it. I always poo-pooed such things, but seeing Jerry Arizonas face after he did a face plant on a rock has about convinced me. Im also finding Im not in as much pain overall in warmer weather.

He does some great videos, but I dont want to be like him, at least not in this instance.

 

[camperdan]

You have to be careful renting or leasing to others. Squatting rights, eviction law, etc come into effect in those situations.

Not trying to be negative. I just want to bring awareness to the situation.

Very good thoughts, appreciate the input. Where do you winter and are you a full-timer? I'm in southern AZ.

 

[Happy Camper]

I winter, summer, fall, and spring in the same location. Socal.

I'm not sure how I found this site those many years ago. I had thoughts on how I could make van life work for me in a real way. And I had a van lol.

But I'm a single dad, and this lifestyle isn't a good match for that. I love to learn, love to help. And I find that every piece of information I have in my head can be put to use in many ways. So I stuck around and read, learned, helped where I could, etc. This lifestyle was and is a remarkable mix of cutting edge and and older knowledge. So I learned a lot of new and old things I might never had a true grasp on, if it wasn't for those here using and doing these things in real time and real life.

My youngest will be starting college next year. So technically I could full time at that point. But I'm going to take some time building up a business and income then decide how I want to proceed.

I'm figuring I'll start taking short trips while doing the above income building. Then I'll decide how that feels and take longer trips. Trips to visit places, others to visit people. Most of it will be in an impractical vehicle for long term, a 94 Jeep Wrangler. But I actually have almost everything I need to make that work. I might consider another vehicle if the wrangler isn't comfortable, or fun enough.

I'm fascinated by the possibilities, but we'll see what happens.

I love the challenge of it.

 

[camperdan]

Caballo Loco boondocking area with dump and fill, trash and restrooms with showers as well as pay laundry and propane sales on site $1320 a year. Remote beautiful desert mountains at almost 4,000’ elevation with 8 mile dirt road 45 minutes to 1 1/2 hour drive to stores in Tucson one way. Lots are filling and getting more crowded.

I dont care much for Phx in the summer, but the Verde area is my main interest, it breaks over 100 off and on through the summer, cools off nicely for the most part at night, gets minor amounts of snow in the winter, has a good monsoon season most years that cool it off in the summer heat for a couple hours. Thats the Goldilocks area for me, besides being familiar with it and know people. One of the little outlying communities outside of Sedona would suit me fine.

I see your location listed under your name is Northern Rockies, but you talk about the Verde area is your main interest.
My initial understanding was that Verde is for the warm months. So I'm guessing you are FROM the northern rockies.

 

[camperdan]

A lot will depend on mobility. Falls are a problem as you age. Snow, ice and even wet surfaces can be huge concerns for elderly people. Air conditioning or a heater can deal with extremes but for me mainly warmer climates are easier to deal with. Not to mention the desert tends to be flat so walks or bike rides can be as difficult as you want to make them by changing their length.

RE Losing balance as we age/falling

A friend turned me on to some BALANCE EXERCISES, which I do daily for 5 minutes. My reading on the subject gives me
hope that can maintain a pretty good balance at 78 and beyond, and even improve it. I have been aware for some time
that when moving around inside the motorhome, I have been reaching for the counter or overhead cabinets when I step
over or around something on the floor. Basically a feeling of unsteadiness.

There is a 5 minute video by Doug, showing the 4 exercises. Please share this link.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxfWYlaK3hMyv_vwz5h8tepymAs9FxGBvw?si=bwSjtYap-AXx8GhZ

 

[Morgana]

I had to do some balance exercises for the ankle PT and I was amazed how much improvement was possible with a little effort. Definitely worth it!

 

[camperdan]

I winter, summer, fall, and spring in the same location. Socal.

I'm not sure how I found this site those many years ago. I had thoughts on how I could make van life work for me in a real way. And I had a van lol.

But I'm a single dad, and this lifestyle isn't a good match for that. I love to learn, love to help. And I find that every piece of information I have in my head can be put to use in many ways. So I stuck around and read, learned, helped where I could, etc. This lifestyle was and is a remarkable mix of cutting edge and and older knowledge. So I learned a lot of new and old things I might never had a true grasp on, if it wasn't for those here using and doing these things in real time and real life.

My youngest will be starting college next year. So technically I could full time at that point. But I'm going to take some time building up a business and income then decide how I want to proceed.

I'm figuring I'll start taking short trips while doing the above income building. Then I'll decide how that feels and take longer trips. Trips to visit places, others to visit people. Most of it will be in an impractical vehicle for long term, a 94 Jeep Wrangler. But I actually have almost everything I need to make that work. I might consider another vehicle if the wrangler isn't comfortable, or fun enough.

I'm fascinated by the possibilities, but we'll see what happens.

I love the challenge of it.

It seems like you have so much challenge and fun ahead of you. I have lived in a motorhome for 20 years, so I have paid nearly zip for rent. If your Jeep is worth $4-5000, add some money + mattress and bedding, camp stove, ice chest, and you have instant rent-free living in a van....mostly. That's assuming you can work remotely. I don't know about camping on
public land in CA, but in AZ and NM it is easy. And it is mostly free. You are smart to put a toe in the water before
plunging in. Have you heard of CHEAPRVLIVING.COM ? Bob Wells started this 2+ decades ago to help people see the possibilities of van dwelling and how to do it. He has made over 1000 videos, focusing on the various aspects, including lots of interviews of folks that have made the transition.

The National Forests allow free camping for a maximum of 14 days in any given 30-day period. Then you have to move 25 miles or to a different national forest. It is much less enforced than it was years ago. I spent 10 weeks outside of Flagstaff
6 miles and there was zero contact by a ranger. That was last summer. Best of luck. Love to hear your news.

 

[camperdan]

RE: Public and private messages. A reply to THIS message would be public. A reply to a private message (I believe) would remain private. But, I am far from an expert in how this forum works.

I like Walla Walla or any NW location east of the coastal mountains. Right now I am on the Oregon coast trying to accomplish some van construction between rain storms and having no sheltered workshop. It's very frustrating and slowing my progress considerably. There are lots for sale in the Klamath area I have been considering. But northern AZ has also appealed to me. I am VERY open minded on location. But, the lower the density of people - the better are the odds of finding more affordable and suitable property. Nor would I want to spend any winters in the midwest or east. Been there, done that, didn't like it.

It sounds like you have plenty of time to complete your van project and divest ( another killer word ). Will the newer high-roof van be an upgrade in floorplan and amenities? Or just the being able to stand up? I like your thoughts about Plan C...Caballo Loco if I remember. My changing idea of perfect elevation from 7000 to 4-5000 ft is a good fit for most of us, when we throw in a nice size evaporative cooler. I like your idea of buying just a simple, older trailer/RV to plant on
your Plan B land and retain the van for shorter trips, stays where temps are better. Heck, maybe I will own a van some day
after I "plant" the motorhome. Northern AZ is about 7000 ft, but the "ideal"elevation of 5000 ish would be a belt from east to west including Prescott and Payson and Show Low. And, don't forget NM....esp Truth or Consequences at 4000 ft.
What a charming little town. Hope your van work is going well.

 

[Happy Camper]

This was the cheap RV living forum when I first started reading it years before I joined. I'm much more familiar with the crowd from back then then I am with most of the current regulars here.

The sale of the forum definitely changed some things. I do miss some of the old posters, but change is inevitable. The knowledge I have gained has allowed me to help more than a few people handle vehicle life.

While I might never full time (who knows?) I do have the knowledge and most of the products needed regardless of the vehicle I decide to travel or live in. I'm actually trying to sell most of my electronics inventory. But I keep finding cool gadgets for mobile life. You name it, I probably have it or had it lol.

The challenge for me would be more the adventure aspect, and finding my proper set of items and style of doing things to match my vehicle.

For instance. My YJ (94 Jeep Wrangler) is an extremely short vehicle with almost no storage. I plan on running it no top outside of the a safari top. Working out storage, sleeping, and safety will be a challenge I look forward to. For instance, I have some very heavy duty 3' drawer sliders in thinking of using to extend a bed from the back. I'll have to plan for a cover when weather demands or I need to go into a store.

By comparison, my old van was super easy to do things with. I'm glad I sold it at the time, but I kinda miss it.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^ keep the capability of you Jeep by keeping it light and build a light weight adventure trailer you can drop at the trail head or make capable enough to pull through. Go to tnttt.com for ideas!

 

[RonDean]

I have started a new thread specifically for those of us that are interested in buying land. >https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/buying-land.49631/

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^Maybe a list of desired conditions as far as elevation, remoteness, utilities, size, price and in general some guidelines of what you hope to find and how you plan to unite or divide the area should be listed?

 

[Happy Camper]

^^^ keep the capability of you Jeep by keeping it light and build a light weight adventure trailer you can drop at the trail head or make capable enough to pull through. Go to tnttt.com for ideas!

I have considered it. The YJ has a 2000lb towing limit. And the short wheel base isn't great for towing as well.

I have looked at some very light trailers just for kicks. There are a few out there that would fit the bill. But at the moment, trying to make it work within the confines of a YJ would be awesome. Remember, it wouldn't be full time. But it would be long time if I enjoy it.

If I decide I want more space or something enclosed I can switch vehicles. My daughter and boyfriend went cross country and into Canada over 9+ weeks late last year in a Kia Niro hybrid. Well over 11k miles, mostly sleeping in the car, with a few exceptions. 50+mpg would be great compared to 15-19mpg in the Jeep.

Or I could get a minivan, or even full sized van again. My 91 gmc conversation van was plenty large for me to do everything I would want to do. Including running a small business from. With some of the newer tech out there it's even easier.

I don't really have to give any of it serious thought at the moment, so that's a plus. But when, or if I decide to do it, it'll be a blast.

The only person I ever met from the forum was HDR. Great guy. I was selling a solar panel pretty cheap for the time and wanted it to go to someone on the forum. He came by and bought it for another forum member that needed it. He never told me who it was. Never mentioned it on the forum. He was a very good man. Definitely miss his posts.

 

[Malamute]

I see your location listed under your name is Northern Rockies, but you talk about the Verde area is your main interest.
My initial understanding was that Verde is for the warm months. So I'm guessing you are FROM the northern rockies.

I live in the N Rockies and am tired of winter. Im going to at least snow bird to the Verde for winters, hopefully by next winter. Id like to find a place id be happy in there, though with the real estate price explosion after Covid hit it doubled and tripled most real estate in Az. Its starting to moderate some, but nothing back to pre-covid prices by any means.

The Verde had mild winters and by Arizona standards, moderate summers. Its of course easy to get out of the heat by going higher elevation for a while, easier still with a home base close by.

I lived in Flagstaff 8 years, I liked it, but now have no desire to deal with the snow, besides real estate prices are extreme close to Flag. We used to go to the Verde in the winter to get away from snow and ride our motorcycles and camp.