When it's time to stop.

[user 22017]

Thought this would fit under this topic:

Older Drivers

https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/older-drivers

 

[SLB_SA]

You can find those. Cheap RV parks in Arizona but the question is would you really want to have a lot of close neighbors.? Some will be like you, some will be people on parole or on various substances.

Come to think of it I bought a hose in an upscale area. Turned out the neighbor on one side was on parole after servicing a sentence for 1st degree murder. The neighbor on the other side was just home once a month on a weekend, released from a prison for white collar crime in a Savings and Loans Scandal he was involved in. The guy two doors away was on a methadone program. I learned after that house purchase to first head to the police station and look at police reports. Not that did any good because the last house I bought had a peeping Tom nearby on catty corner who was peeping at the woman next to me and a couple of alcoholic neighbors who were always yelling and screaming at each other.

I am very much happier without being a home owner or renter tied into a lease. If I do not like the neighbors I am free to leave as soon as I can pack up and hitch up. I do not object to having my own place but I just have not always been lucky even though I always bought fixers that had those 3 very desirable qualities, location, location, location. At least I always made decent money after I fixed them up to looking very nice.

Besides possibly paying a mortgage, the cost and stress of maintaining a house can adversely affect one's quality of life. Which contractors can you trust? What is a fair price for repairs? How long will it take for the kids to repair and sell my house when I am gone? Why not sell now and get on the road? Tough decisions.

 

[SLB_SA]

You can find those. Cheap RV parks in Arizona but the question is would you really want to have a lot of close neighbors.? Some will be like you, some will be people on parole or on various substances.

Come to think of it I bought a hose in an upscale area. Turned out the neighbor on one side was on parole after servicing a sentence for 1st degree murder. The neighbor on the other side was just home once a month on a weekend, released from a prison for white collar crime in a Savings and Loans Scandal he was involved in. The guy two doors away was on a methadone program. I learned after that house purchase to first head to the police station and look at police reports. Not that did any good because the last house I bought had a peeping Tom nearby on catty corner who was peeping at the woman next to me and a couple of alcoholic neighbors who were always yelling and screaming at each other.

I am very much happier without being a home owner or renter tied into a lease. If I do not like the neighbors I am free to leave as soon as I can pack up and hitch up. I do not object to having my own place but I just have not always been lucky even though I always bought fixers that had those 3 very desirable qualities, location, location, location. At least I always made decent money after I fixed them up to looking very nice.

I have to say that I have great neighbors and a great location but things can change. The HOA can go crazy (but it is really good right now and has a 5% annual cap on fee increases). Neighbors can (& will) move. Is the key to happiness to strive to be the most disreputable person in your neighborhood?

 

[rruff]

This subject tends to drift a lot... and IMO it tends to drift into the nonsensical. I understand that denial is common, but it's good to be realistic.

If the question is "where to land after I'm no longer able to nomad, but not quite ready for the nursing home"... then a offgrid place in the boonies is definitely not the answer... since you can't drive. Same for a cheap RV park in the boonies. Ditto anything that requires work. A little apartment or trailer in town makes sense. I'm not up on the details, but most towns have services that assist seniors that need help... rides to store and doc, even meals delivered, etc.

You don't like having close neighbors? Remember, your functionality and mobility are poor and you are trying to stay out of a crappy nursing home... where your neighbors are really close, often senile, and you are told what to do and when to do it. The "non-deal" setup that avoids that fate the best, is really the most ideal.

 

[RonDean]

This subject tends to drift a lot... and IMO it tends to drift into the nonsensical. I understand that denial is common, but it's good to be realistic.

If the question is "where to land after I'm no longer able to nomad, but not quite ready for the nursing home"... then a offgrid place in the boonies is definitely not the answer... since you can't drive. Same for a cheap RV park in the boonies. Ditto anything that requires work. A little apartment or trailer in town makes sense. I'm not up on the details, but most towns have services that assist seniors that need help... rides to store and doc, even meals delivered, etc.

You don't like having close neighbors? Remember, your functionality and mobility are poor and you are trying to stay out of a crappy nursing home... where your neighbors are really close, often senile, and you are told what to do and when to do it. The "non-deal" setup that avoids that fate the best, is really the most ideal.

rruff, Yes, hammer meets nail. You have the gist of my conundrum. I enjoy the life I have right now. But neither am I in denial about the fact that someday it must end. Quite possibly before I actually keel over. Given the fact that the average age in our lifestyle is 42, I though maybe someone else had already cracked the problem. I do thank everyone for their feedback.

 

[SLB_SA]

When I think about the readers of this site, I realize that there are multiple types of readers. One type is portrayed in the book Nomadland and represented by many videos by Bob Wells; these are people who were forced to be nomads because of financial necessity. Another type is retired workers or seasonal or remote workers who choose to be nomads because it is a lifestyle they embrace and who are not forced by financial necessity into nomadic life. A third type is potential nomads who currently live in a house, apartment, boat or other "permanent" lodging, are "relatively" financial secure (even if only one illness, accident, major house repair, etc could change this) and might like to embrace a nomadic lifestyle (if only to avoid sitting in front of a TV all day or to see the sights of America or the world). I cannot say to which group RonDean belongs.

The types of solutions to the "landing spot" problem may depend on the financial condition of the nomad. For some, living within walking distance of essentially all necessities in a "big" city could be a solution, especially considering the public services (e.g. free senior transportation) available. For others in states with free or inexpensive public transportation services for seniors, living in a rural community within a hour's drive of a big city (with multiple medical providers) might offer a good, inexpensive solution. (In either of these two cases, a group of nomads unable to individually afford a house/apartment might band together and buy/rent a house/apartment.) The above solution of "A little apartment or trailer in town" fits into these categories, as does the statement "... but most towns have services that assist seniors that need help... rides to store and doc, even meals delivered, etc." Senior (transportation) services between rural and nearby urban communities exist in some states. Many "towns" do not offer adequate (or any) hospitals, medical specialists or even very many general practitioners/family doctors. (I have siblings or relatives in California who have had to travel hundreds of miles for dental implants, heart surgery, detached retina surgery, etc. and whose GPs & dentists have moved to larger cities.)

What is a "big enough" city? This depends more on the services offered and less on the size. Rochester, Minnesota (120K) is big enough. My current city has multiple Level I Trauma Centers which serve patients in multiple states and I have never left the city for my (6+) surgeries. If access to advanced medical or dental services is important to a person, researching the available options in a "town" might be wise. The focus of some on living in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, etc. and ignoring Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Indiana, etc. might cause other nomads to ignore inexpensive solutions to the "landing problem."

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^ the people that have met and befriended have mainly continued to live in RV’s and not moved as often if at all. Some have managed to find property with an old house or rent a place to park reasonably on a distant friend or family member’s property. Some have in the past rented a cheap apartment but there are not many of those left. Tiny home communities are being developed and are cheaper than many apartments in some cases which if they continue to decrease in price may be an option. It is pretty simple to understand the more income you have the more options there are which is why many of us have continued to work well past retirement age and formed friendships and communities (Escapee’s Care Center for example) to help those that just need a little help to avoid burdening family or others. Some have managed to live this way by just slowing down and taking easier seasonal or part time jobs till they die suddenly or within a short period of time pass. Others end up too disabled for too long a time to continue living in the community and fall into the care of family or with the aid of VA and Social Services usually along with Medicare and eventually Medicaid once their saving are gone to stay in assisted living or nursing home beds what ever is available to them depending how long they continue to stay alive. Older disabled people can continue to participate in society and live useful lives if they choose to more so than in the past as communication means have become so easy and quick. Used to be people wrote books or lectured now you can just pull out the laptop. Covid took many of the older crowd that used to gather in the mornings at local restaurants or campfires for a few hours each day or once a year even so situations do change sometimes radically. These are just some of my experiences and biased observations on this subject. There is usually a solution to most problems but there is always a result!

 

[Gr8ful]

SLB_SA(In either of these two cases, a group of nomads unable to individually afford a house/apartment might band together and buy/rent a house/apartment.)​

We're looking at selling the farm as a 55+ cooperative. 1890 3400sf Mission style home, 8 bedroom (could be 10 or have a 2nd kitchen/living room upstairs) 4 finished full baths & 1 plumbed in the basement. All redone but kept it original. New kitchen with the orig wood cook stove. Split stone foundation & great stone chimney. 2 stairways to the upstairs, Lots of oak built ins, doors & trim, 9' poured basement, never a leak & no drain. On 40 rolling acres of hay field (reseeded this year) 22'x24' cabin in the back w/porch overlooking large pond, tons of wildlife & seclusion. 52'x84'x13'h newer hanger/workshop w/12'x52' of it heated with elect, gas & either wood or waste oil heat, 40' hanger door. 3 other outbuildings. 2 runways & a shooting range.












5 miles to I-94, 10 to Paw Paw which has a Walmart SS, several parts & dollar stores, just about everything you need. 25m to Kalamazoo & 3m to our small town w/most things needed.

 

[camperdan]

Housing is or should be a concern for everyone. Not just people currently living in sticks and bricks and not just those living on the street. And not just the affluent McMansion residents that hate the poor people trashing up the streets nearby and impacting home prices or wanting so much affordable housing that their own unaffordable (to many of us) home prices might drop somewhat. I recently read an article in The Atlantic about successful steps that Montana has taken that are already helping. But I think waiting for the government to act is a fool’s game. Some on this forum might ask, “helping what?” And I understand that sentiment.

Many of us are full-time nomads by choice. Or at least we claim to be. I DO like traveling! But as I approach 80 YO I begin to worry about what I will do when my traveling days are over. When My body just cannot take the strain such a life brings. Yes, I have a family I can fall back on. Not everyone is so lucky. And I hate to have to depend on that always being the case.

I think then I may discover I have a lot more in common with the homeless or those spending so much on housing that they are otherwise destitute. Whilst I can live semi-comfortably on my Social Security and modest savings in the RV life - if I mostly boondock and visit friends and family along the way. I know that will not be the case if I am forced to settle down and pay what passes for minimum rentals in most places I would not mind settling down.

This is why I have followed and commented on threads that strayed into discussions about homelessness and RV Park living. Or threads talking about semi-affordable land. I wonder if I am the only one on this forum looking for a better solution while I can still make some personal choices. Does anyone have any reasonably good ideas about where we could park our rigs or return to a S&B lifestyle at an affordable price when the time comes? And please don’t suggest Jackson MS again. I hope never to be that desperate!

I know many seem to like the desert SW, but I would prefer somewhere that is not about to go totally dry. And with rising temperatures, I would prefer not to be sitting in a mostly metal box in the desert sun. I have considered Mexico, but that seems to have its own set of issues. Are any other solutions out there I have not heard of yet? Or do I just hope I can last until Montana's housing solutions finally bear fruit?

Ron, These are good questions that many of us have given attention to. I would like to keep this thread going, and try to explore some possible answers. Just a couple of thoughts and then more tomorrow. A nice size piece of land in AZ or NM,
with historically well-managed water supply, where there might be 1-3 owners of 10-20 acres (or more) and room to accommodate a dozen or two boondockers, who would pay a modest amount for use of the land. That might be in the neighborhood of $250/ month. Reasonably close to supplies and services, medical. And the low desert may not be the best because of extreme temps. I believe an elevation of 4-5000 ft would be worth a look.

It has been mentioned that HOWA's long term goal is to acquire and that would accommodate VAN BUILDS, as well as long term places offer seniors who could no longer travel. Does HOWA have an idea how they could pull that off? Bob Wells certainly has demonstrated his commitment and energy. I have an acquaintance that wants to acquire land in AZ and start a community. She will be selling 150 Acres with buildings in Alberta to fund her dream. She also wants to
incorporate a " food forest ". I think one of the key elements in buying land is zoning that would fit the RV lifestyle.

Please give some concise feedback, and let's move forward. There are may good minds out there.

 

[maki2]

Here is your precise feedback:
Bob Wells is not in the driver’s seat at HOWA making those kinds of decisions about what direction and programs HOWA will be involved in. That person is currently a man named J.D. McCrary. He just recently assumed the Chairman role. You are of course able to directly contact HOWA with your thoughts on the subject of a retirement RV park facility for nomads to stay in their own vehicles. Maybe there will be a committee you can join to take some personal action in making such a thing become a reality. If you want something badly the best way to achieve it is to get personally involved in the day to day grinding work of achieving it.

 

[rruff]

Grinding work is right! That's the biggest impediment I think... as most of us aren't in the mode of running a business, even if we know how. It's a great idea though, and I hope someone makes it happen.

 

[bullfrog !]

Well you probably should realize you will not be able to find perfect 4 season property for most nomads in poorly insulated vehicles or RVs. Caballo Loco is just below 4,000’ and for most gets too hot in the summer without grid power to run Air Conditioning. Anything above 5,000’ in southern Utah gets really cold in winter. Both propane and electricity will be expensive in remote areas if you can even find one that allows you to do what you want. In Arizona you can find property zoned GR-4 which allows under certain conditions an RV park as a commercial business that I believe you can put up to 10 RV spots per acre. Most GR-4 land of any size just outside of developed areas without restrictions doesn’t have water, any utilities or even year round passable roads. Buying out an older established park is probably the only way to find something that would be close to what you are looking for. We bought an existing house on a GR-4 zoned property in an area where zoning complaints are seldom a concern and ADUs are allowed, paved road in and city water and grid electricity. Our neighbor has 3 motor homes on his lot so for now it is possible but his bare lot cost close to $150,000 and cost him much more for septic tanks, electric poles and water lines plus driveway. Permits for building an RV carport can run over $1,000 according to local contractors I have contacted. Nothing near $250 would even cover the payments. I believe he is hoping to break even by having 4 spaces at $500 plus utilities.

 

[maki2]

If you go to the Escapees website you can read all about how that group “grew”the park in the Livingston area that where there senior CARE facility is. It took MANY years of hard labor by community members and even back then a good sized chunk of money and labor. They sold off plots of property to purchase the acreage and add in roads and utilities. The hard labor is not something disabled seniors can do. So again if you want it to happen it takes a whole lot more than telling people in a forum to post about it.

If you want to share the purchase of land then create a thread and gather names then start a private conversation to get to know them.

 

[rruff]

Well you probably should realize you will not be able to find perfect 4 season property for most nomads in poorly insulated vehicles or RVs. Caballo Loco is just below 4,000’ and for most gets too hot in the summer without grid power to run Air Conditioning. Anything above 5,000’ in southern Utah gets really cold in winter.

You can run AC off solar, especially in a place like that where it cools off at night (usually). A shade structure with solar panels would be a good idea for someone staying the summer.

I've heard that Brewster County TX does not have code restrictions... but somebody told me that you need 10 acres to get away without septic, so I guess there is some enforcement... or maybe just suggestions? Anyway, the land is mostly cheap and the year round climate very nice at the higher elevations. Alpine for instance has an average high that varies from 60 to 90, which is about as good as you'll find. It's a long way from a decent hospital, though. And Alpine is the only town of decent size (6,000).

 

[Happy Camper]

With enough extra land you can set up a Santan solar surplus grid for summer AC. Just a thought.

Set up a Star link device and have local Wi-Fi Internet service.

Maybe drill and get a well going.

Just some extra services to keep costs down for those that would want to pitch in. If not, they are already set up for themselves.

 

[rruff]

If you go to the Escapees website you can read all about how that group “grew”the park in the Livingston area that where there senior CARE facility is.

A care facility is a whole nother deal...

But I noticed that Escapees have a bunch of RV parks. The cheapest I saw was in Deming, NM for $275/mo, which is pretty darn cheap. Around $400 is more typical...

https://escapees.com/rv-parking/

 

[Morgana]

I <3 Deming.

 

[user 22017]

A care facility is a whole nother deal...

But I noticed that Escapees have a bunch of RV parks. The cheapest I saw was in Deming, NM for $275/mo, which is pretty darn cheap. Around $400 is more typical...

https://escapees.com/rv-parking/

I recently joined Escapees and smiled when I saw Deming listed as one of their RV parks. Deming comes up all the time in searches for cheap land . So often it scared me off from investigating further, lol.

I think I'll stop by there. The price is right.

 

[bullfrog !]

Escapee’s is a tremendous deal in the long run if you can afford the initial investment. We stayed and worked in Livingston Texas for about a year at Escapees almost 20 years ago and have visited most of their parks. We were a little younger than most members at the time but that has changed over the years! Lol!!! Their parks tend to be in the medium to lower end price wise but offer many more amenities Some of the parks do have restrictions and requirements.

 

[rruff]

I recently joined Escapees and smiled when I saw Deming listed as one of their RV parks.

It isn't bad. I stop there once in awhile on my way to somewhere else... usually the Gila. I'm going to head to the desert in AZ/CA in a few days, so I may stop there again. The issue with Demming is really that its both hot (mid 90s in summer) and cool (mid 50s in winter) so for someone who can move with the seasons there are other places that make more sense. It wouldn't be too bad for year round living (didn't see a yearly rate, but I bet you could negotiate), and it's only an hour from Las Cruces. Demming itself has all the normal stuff, like a Walmart.

I've been looking at parks that have discounts through Escapees, and it isn't that expensive. It isn't hard to find places that are <$2k for 6 months, and you can just move a couple times a year and have ideal weather. These appear nice (full hookups) and have good amenities. You also don't get an Escapees discount, that is only for short stays.

So I'm slightly less clueless about RV parks than I was! It seems to me that it would be tough to do much better than these prices unless you created a non-profit and got significant donations.