Legalities of residency

[BobPeters61]

Having hotel-dwelled at different times since the laws went insane post 9-11, I found that banks didn't want to take hotel addresses, but I could get a prepaid debit card that worked similar to a checking account with additional costs.  And that liability insurance on vehicles accepted those just fine as well, but I couldn't save a few bucks a month by having the cost pulled right out of my account.  Direct deposit of paychecks and tax refunds went through to the prepaid card just fine using a hotel address as well.

This, however, was when I lived at a hotel. (More expensive than an apartment whereas my incentive for vandwelling is to make it less.)

I know there are facilities for the homeless that give mailing addresses to homeless people who can show up during the business day for mail call when they receive something there.  When homeless at one point within the past decade, one actually allowed me to list them as an address on job applications.

I'm just wondering how far one can go since my vehicle dwelling experience has been when homeless and the vandwelling lifestyle I'm looking into for future years is sort of a lesser version of homelessness.

So the issue of usable addresses is a primary concern in my planning for an RV-dwelling retirement.

 

[John61CT]

Well between this thread and the other I linked to, there are plenty of choices.

The key IMO is accepting the reality of the situation and moving forward with the one that fits your needs best.

As opposed to ignoring the issue, or thinking you can get a bureaucracy to make an exception for you.

 

[samuraikitty7]

I'm wondering if it would be better to buy a cheap piece of land that has an address but is maybe undeveloped, could be even unuseable, in the state you want to spend the most time in to be a resident. Still have mail forwarding, but also legal deed in your name, usually an actual street number. I myself live in WA on my parents' property in a large class A. I get everything for free. It's pretty gravy other than being disabled and poor, which sucks. Once they die (they are 80 years old), they still have a mortgage on the property that I could never pay. My brother wants the house so I'd like to head southwest and live in a small tt. I do NOT want to rely on family at this time, that could change. Being on SSD, SSI, Medicaid, and food stamps, I do not want to even think about defrauding the gov't. I really like the deal I saw in one of Bob's vlogs about New Mexico state parks for $240/$180 for non-resident/resident. I don't mind staying all year because I don't mind cold and snow, although I do want to go explore and boondock around the country some. I definitely want to visit my native state of WA, but not often enough to deal with healthcare. Most of my time would be spent in NM or AZ. Just looking on Zillow there are cheap parcels for as low as $3k in NM (and that's 5 acres of flat primitive land), and also abandoned or repo'd land for sometimes next to nothing in an auction. I'm seriously considering doing something like this so I can be a bona fide resident of the state for not only DL, insurance, etc. but for government benefits and having to see doctors WAY too often. Thoughts?

Cat

 

[John61CT]

Tying up you scarce liquidity for the *sole* reason of establishing legal residence is overkill IMO.

If you have other reasons to own the land it's a side benefit.

Don't worry about fraud issues, intent is key, and the fact is permanent nomads are just not accommodated by these laws, and therefore we are forced to "fudge a little".

Long as you do your good faith best to be honest, and don't actually claim benefits you're not entitled to, worst case down the road you'd just be forced to change your setup, not actually prosecuted for it. Common sense and compassion is the norm even bureaucrats are 99% human.

But then I am not a lawyer,

 

[samuraikitty7]

Tying up you scarce liquidity for the *sole* reason of establishing legal residence is overkill IMO.

If you have other reasons to own the land it's a side benefit.

Don't worry about fraud issues, intent is key, and the fact is permanent nomads are just not accommodated by these laws, and therefore we are forced to "fudge a little".

Long as you do your good faith best to be honest, and don't actually claim benefits you're not entitled to, worst case down the road you'd just be forced to change your setup, not actually prosecuted for it. Common sense and compassion is the norm even bureaucrats are 99% human.

But then I am not a lawyer,

Thanks for the response.  I'm just looking at those talking about the Real ID act.  And no, I wouldn't be trying to get anything I don't already have, or avoid taxes since I don't have anything to tax other than vehicles in WA state.  And yeah, I'm trying to survive on little money, buying property just to dot all the i's is not something I want to deal with.  I do think talking to a lawyer if I actually get out like I want would be a good idea.

 

[BigT]

I've often wondered about the property "loophole" myself, though I thought I heard you had to have a house or permanent dwelling of a certain size to qualify it as your residency. That parking your RV / camper on the land was illegal.

Sure would be nice if it worked, but I have my doubts. In a lot of areas, land is dirt cheap (pun intended), so you'd think if it could be done, everyone with a few bucks to invest but no house would be doing it.

 

[John61CT]

The actual enforced requirements for getting a "Real ID" compatible driver's license is up to each state, and don't necessarily require that you spend any specific / minimum time at the specified address.

Zoning laws and how those are enforced are up to each local jurisdiction, and have nothing to do with the Real ID stuff.

In practice, bureacrats just want your fee-paying paper-pushing transaction to go smoothly and they will happily provide you all the info as to what's required in advance.

Most people don't own real estate, and lots live in trailer parks.

Just do the research, fill out the forms, make sure everything is consistent. When your turn comes up at the counter, don't rock the boat with unusual questions or commentary, keep it all routine, no worries.

 

[samuraikitty7]

I've often wondered about the property "loophole" myself, though I thought I heard you had to have a house or permanent dwelling of a certain size to qualify it as your residency.  That parking your RV / camper on the land was illegal.  

Sure would be nice if it worked, but I have my doubts.  In a lot of areas, land is dirt cheap (pun intended), so you'd think if it could be done, everyone with a few bucks to invest but no house would be doing it.

It's illegal a lot of places, but not all.  Depends on the county, city, etc.  The county I live in in WA doesn't care.  They are more worried about the drug addicts and high theft.  The county to the north is much more strict about everything.  You have to be in an RV park if you live in your RV.

Since someone stated that most gov't agencies know all the PMB places, have a database on them, that's why I don't think I can use one as residency.  On the other hand, what agency is going to take the time to go look at a piece of property legally in your name out in the middle of nowhere?  IDK

I have established residency here in WA.  That's not an issue.  My concern is medicaid and doctors.  Medicare doesn't care where you live, and food stamps can be used nationwide.  But medicaid is state specific and won't pay out of state unless it's an emergency.  At least right now my conditions require me to see doctors every three months, and I don't want to be stuck in WA all year.  If I can get it so it's yearly, then that would be pretty gravy.  Just try to get them all in a three month period so I can head there in the summer.  But if I'm spending most of my time in another state like NM, I would need to have medicaid and doctors there.

 

[John61CT]

most gov't agencies know all the PMB places, have a database on them, that's why I don't think I can use one as residency.  On the other hand, what agency is going to take the time to go look at a piece of property legally in your name out in the middle of nowhere?

Yes to the first, same with financial orgs, more and more each year. To the second maybe in the future not now.

At least right now my conditions require me to see doctors every three months, and I don't want to be stuck in WA all year.  If I can get it so it's yearly, then that would be pretty gravy.  Just try to get them all in a three month period so I can head there in the summer.  But if I'm spending most of my time in another state like NM, I would need to have medicaid and doctors there.

Establish your residency in the syate that make the most sense for your medical care and travel logistics. What reason would you have to do otherwise?

In theory you can "move" but I assume that will cause delays, gaps in coverage?

 

[samuraikitty7]

Yes to the first, same with financial orgs, more and more each year. To the second maybe in the future not now.

Establish your residency in the syate that make the most sense for your medical care and travel logistics. What reason would you have to do otherwise?

In theory you can "move" but I assume that will cause delays, gaps in coverage?

That's the issue, "establishing residency."  If I can't use a PMB, I'd need to find friends who would allow me to use their address as residency then use a forwarding service for mail (I wouldn't impose that on anyone, even family).  They'd need to be really good friends to possibly fudge on gov't documents.  I'm not wanting to lie to anyone, just want some freedom of movement.  Everything still applies, my assets, my disability, just without an address.  Homeless people can use shelters as addresses, but generally the actual homeless stick to one area with services.

 

[John61CT]

You are giving up before you've started, remember if you set a definite goal, where there's a will there's a way.

There are many other options besides friends or family for the "residence" address.
And that address never needs to get any mail at all once you've got your DL there, that's what the maildrop services are for.
Just read through a few (dozen) past threads on the topic and keep an open mind.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:cheaprvliving.com+address+legal+OR+tax+OR+residence

 

[samuraikitty7]

You are giving up before you've started, remember if you set a definite goal, where there's a will there's a way.

There are many other options besides friends or family for the "residence" address.
And that address never needs to get any mail at all once you've got your DL there, that's what the maildrop services are for.
Just read through a few (dozen) past threads on the topic and keep an open mind.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site:cheaprvliving.com+address+legal+OR+tax+OR+residence

Oh, I haven't given up by a long shot.  I just got a bit discouraged reading about the PMBs.  I have seen on another thread since posting that some people have successfully used near raw land (usually needing a septic) in AZ as a residency.  I have lots of time to research as I'm not ready yet.

 

[wayne49]

From my investigation you can have a street address on vacant land.

Use a mail forwarder as your mailing address, this will not affect your residential street address.

Unless you gain some notoriety, no one is going to care. Which means you failed basic security and privacy, that is to go unnoticed.

Most rural areas don't have the time or resources to get into people's private affairs.

Side note.
The local post office may not deliver to a rural street address, using instead a "HCnn BOX nnnn" address for mail. This is the case in Amargosa Valley, NV. They will not deliver to the street address. They will allow it for a week or two, with a note telling you to update your mailing address. That is long enough to get a bank statement with your street address on the document.

If you are actually living there and order from Amazon and Amazon decides to ship using UPS Surepost or the FEDEX offering, you need to have the address to show both the physical and mailing address. PITA.

 

[rm.w/aview]

https://dakotapost.net/ may have some answers on their website

 

[John61CT]

Mail forwarding services' addresses will **not** qualify for the "residential /physical" address needed to get a federally qualified driver's licence in any state.

You must show documents like phone or utility bill, pay stub, mortgage or rent receipt, bank statement, homeowner’s insurance, etc, with your name and address on it.

Once you have the DL and "physical / residential" address established, let the DMV know your mailing address, there should never be a need for any mail to go to that, that's what the letterbox service is for.

Then change your government and financial institutional records to all be in sync, since they all increasingly get cross-referenced, and normal mainstream citizens are consistent.

Only exception I can think of is the occasional bureaucracy that still only accepts a single address, no facility for a separate mailing address. Using the letterbox address for those should be OK, since it is unlikely they'll be tied into the database services that blacklist the forwarder addresses.

 

[rm.w/aview]

Mail forwarding services' addresses will **not** qualify for the "residential /physical" address needed to get a federally qualified driver's licence in any state.
You must show documents like phone or utility bill, pay stub, mortgage or rent receipt, bank statement, homeowner’s insurance, etc, with your name and address on it.

Or, apparently in SD, a receipt for one night stay at a campground or motel as outlined on the linked websites, and a few other sites that pertain to SD residency.

 

[John61CT]

And that gets you the DL with the Real ID gold star?

Wow if that's real, fantastic, but I bet won't last much longer, the other states complying with the Feds, means all the paedophile drug-cartel terrorists will be heading there

 

[moorejames]

Mail forwarding services' addresses will **not** qualify for the "residential /physical" address needed to get a federally qualified driver's licence in any state.

My Escapees Mail Service address in Livingston, TX worked just fine to get my Texas driver's license and to register my vehicles. It's also my address for my federal taxes, insurance and bank account.... so I wouldn't say they NEVER work. (and yes, my DL has the Real ID star on it).

 

[Headache]

Mail forwarding services' addresses will **not** qualify for the "residential /physical" address needed to get a federally qualified driver's licence in any state.

Not true.  States are not required to prove the validity of our addresses or documents, they just have to prove we have the required documents.  As long as it's not a USPS box with the obvious "P.O. box" in the address many states will accept an address from a rented box.  There are still many rural areas that have no mail delivery where affidavits are accepted when applying for drivers license such as in Arizona.

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2008-01-29/pdf/08-140.pdf

For easier reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act#cite_note-dhs.gov-16

The DHS final rule[16] regarding implementation of the Real ID Act driver's license provisions relaxes, and in some instances waives altogether, these verification requirements of the Real ID Act. Thus the DHS rule concedes that there is no practical mechanism to verify with the issuers the validity of documents proving the applicant's primary address (such as a mortgage statement or a utility bill) and leaves the implementation of this verification requirement to discretion of the states (page 5297 of the DHS final rule in the Federal Register).[16] However, the DHS rule, Section 37.11(c), mandates that the Real ID license applicants be required to present at least two documents documenting the address of their primary residence.

 

[VanKitten]

I have had a mail service for the last 7 years. In Florida.

I got a DL using the documentation the service provided.
The insurance company (Progressive and Geico before them) has no issue with it
Progressive knows I am full time RV now. They have no issue with it.

My health insurance, banks, etc all have no issue with it,

My only issue is that once every 10 years I have to stand in front of the DMV camera...so, I have to go back to do it.

I would change my domicile .... but my RV will not pass inspection. I need a State where there is no income tax, easy to establish domicile, and no vehicle inspection. Seems that Florida is my only choice to get it all.