highdesertranger
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It's not a big deal but when you quote a post the quote appears in a box. then just move the cursor outside the box and start typing. Highdesertranger
Hidden homeless crisis...
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highdesertranger
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JDub said:
like this
highdesertranger
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highdesertranger said:
WanderigRose, your heart in is in the right place. but, Anyone who builds another "subsidized housing for low income households" or "government housing complex's" or "government apartments" into society or in the neighborhood should be forced to live in them. They turn in to crime and gang infested nightmares. I dont know of anyone wising that a government low income complex would be built next to them, not from prejudice but from history. They just don't work.WanderingRose said:
Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. :angel:
Many of the older subsidized housing units across the country are being torn down and rebuilt into more single and double family residences that are quite attractive.
In the process, applicants are re-screened and decisions to rent made accordingly.
There are also Section 8 certificates, which are income based subsidies that one can take to a private renter and are generally reserved for low-income, working families.
There are options, and they can work.
Many of the older subsidized housing units across the country are being torn down and rebuilt into more single and double family residences that are quite attractive.
In the process, applicants are re-screened and decisions to rent made accordingly.
There are also Section 8 certificates, which are income based subsidies that one can take to a private renter and are generally reserved for low-income, working families.
There are options, and they can work.
Cousin_Eddie
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Those in favor of free housing, are you willing to give 50% of your income to make it happen? The top 1% pay 97% of taxes many are in a very high tax bracket. Do you want more for free goodies
People want low cost or free housing but want others to pay. what a thought!
Billions continue to be spent on such programs on both the federal and state level. The larger the budget for such programs the more bureaucracy. With that comes wide spread fraud. Remember the clunkers for cash program? $4,500 for yo clunker cost tax payer $45,354. Her s just one of many examples.. a basic multi-units being built in a LA. at $700,000 each. (could go higher) They wan t 10,000 such units the cost is a staggering $7000,000,000.00 ( 7 billion).many such units will likely be in disrepair within a few years as I have seen this first hand over the years. We here billions and trillions all the time, but looking at with simple math I think its more real. 1 billion dollars is 1,000 piles with 1 millions dollars in each pile. Yes do that x’s 700, meaning 700,000 piles with 1 million dollars in each pile for this one project. Out of the 10k units I thinks its about 95% single people units and 5% families.
https://www.dailynews.com/2020/02/2...to-700000-a-unit-to-house-homeless-heres-why/
https://cei.org/blog/cash-for-clunkers-real-cost/
People want low cost or free housing but want others to pay. what a thought!
Billions continue to be spent on such programs on both the federal and state level. The larger the budget for such programs the more bureaucracy. With that comes wide spread fraud. Remember the clunkers for cash program? $4,500 for yo clunker cost tax payer $45,354. Her s just one of many examples.. a basic multi-units being built in a LA. at $700,000 each. (could go higher) They wan t 10,000 such units the cost is a staggering $7000,000,000.00 ( 7 billion).many such units will likely be in disrepair within a few years as I have seen this first hand over the years. We here billions and trillions all the time, but looking at with simple math I think its more real. 1 billion dollars is 1,000 piles with 1 millions dollars in each pile. Yes do that x’s 700, meaning 700,000 piles with 1 million dollars in each pile for this one project. Out of the 10k units I thinks its about 95% single people units and 5% families.
https://www.dailynews.com/2020/02/2...to-700000-a-unit-to-house-homeless-heres-why/
https://cei.org/blog/cash-for-clunkers-real-cost/
Cousin_Eddie, didn't you know, your not paying for it, the gov is. This is how people think now. lol The problem stems from this new thing called entitlement and a total lack of priorities. If you are Handicapped, I see the need for assistance, we need to be morally responsible and help those that cannot help themselves but so many of these places turn into a 4th, 5th and 6th generation of people that have never worked a day of their life. The poor kido's raised in these places have to join a gang to stay alive. Some new concept is needed to help people when their down on their luck but not gov housing of any type or new fancy label. Disaster every time. Today it's appreciated, tomorrow it's expected: is how it starts.Cousin_Eddie said:
^
The highest US tax bracket is 37%. Is that a typo above? Also, there are all kinds of loopholes that bring down the actual rate paid by the very wealthy so they end up paying much less.
Sure, housing is expensive but look at all the jobs that are created for construction companies. Plus all the companies that sell the material, haul the material, plumbers,electricians...
Many of the people who "want low cost or free housing" have paid plenty of taxes over the years but now because of age or medical problems can't afford better. Also, many of those low income people have worked in dangerous occupations that have affected their health and are in worse financial condition than wealthier people who don't have to face those conditions.
The highest US tax bracket is 37%. Is that a typo above? Also, there are all kinds of loopholes that bring down the actual rate paid by the very wealthy so they end up paying much less.
Sure, housing is expensive but look at all the jobs that are created for construction companies. Plus all the companies that sell the material, haul the material, plumbers,electricians...
Many of the people who "want low cost or free housing" have paid plenty of taxes over the years but now because of age or medical problems can't afford better. Also, many of those low income people have worked in dangerous occupations that have affected their health and are in worse financial condition than wealthier people who don't have to face those conditions.
bagabum said:
I know you're trying to make a point but 6 generations back would be 150 years ago and I believe most people worked pretty hard 150 years ago
And yeah, it's not enough to just provide housing. A decent education and opportunities are also needed.
Not much opportunity exists in parts of the country because they are in remote locations and/or dying industries is all there is (or was). Look at the urban decay in Detroit and other rust belt areas.
It will take someone smarter than me to figure out how to deal with the problem. Historically there have been some good programs like the Civilian Conservation Corps and today’s America Corps not to mention our military that have helped “our” youth in this country get opportunities and training to succeed. There is still a large population of mentally ill and severely disabled that need help and we depend on the government ( the combined total population ) to deal with these problems of suppling aid to those that need it. It is up to us to insure the tax dollars go where they should through our elected officials. There are many times over more people living below the poverty level than there are those making over 100 million dollars a year. In a country where each person has a vote it makes sense that those that have benefited the most from our country’s resources and people should pay the most in taxes to solve the problems, some of which they have created. The uncontrolled capitalist has stolen much of the country’s wealth and unfortunately instead of using their influence to help solve these problems and improve the country that they benefited from, most of the very rich have used their influence to cause our representatives to lower the tax rates for the wealthy widening the wealth gap as the problems continue to grow. There are bad characters both rich and poor and both affect how we deal with the problems. The rich ones hold the power to change things the poor ones not so much as many times the education opportunities were not available to allow good judgments. The uneducated and people that are just out for themselves are the main problems in this country. Homelessness is just a result of the problems.
slow2day said:
I agree, and in most townships the wait list for a Section 8 certificate is at least years.
JDub
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WanderingRose said:
In Honolulu, they opened up the Section 8 enrollment last year by means of a lottery to compete for the CHANCE of getting JUST THE APPLICATION to get on the rolls... If I recall, there were 80 slots and over 10,000 people applied for the lottery... The lines were humungous as if you couldn't imagine... One of the requirements was having a job so these were all working folks...
Beyond Ridiculous
^
At the same time, in other parts of the country, there is housing built with fed programs like USDA Rural housing that goes begging. This is decent housing that is not fully used because so many people don't want to leave the cities 'where the action is'.
At the same time, in other parts of the country, there is housing built with fed programs like USDA Rural housing that goes begging. This is decent housing that is not fully used because so many people don't want to leave the cities 'where the action is'.
Cousin_Eddie
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In this life at some point we all will fall on hard times or lose our way and need temporary help in one form or another. Its not always financial but many poor choices can lead to financial problems eventually. I have had such past experiences and would be the first to pick you up in such a time of need. During these times I had to face the fact that it was my responsibility to make an effort, “to do the work” and to push through it and work to make things better for myself.
I think it is only human to have deep compassion to help those in need whenever and however you can. But where does the help end? Will giving more and more handouts just create more of a moral hazard by supporting risky or costly behaviors. Is it fair to the those who honestly faces oneself, and decided to make positive changes, then does the hard work
I think it is only human to have deep compassion to help those in need whenever and however you can. But where does the help end? Will giving more and more handouts just create more of a moral hazard by supporting risky or costly behaviors. Is it fair to the those who honestly faces oneself, and decided to make positive changes, then does the hard work
Every individual that is capable of choosing and has opportunities to do better for themselves and their family’s with the right motivation all most always do. There will always be a few that don’t because they don’t feel they can ever get ahead and for many in that growing group that is true and even more so as many have become finical slaves to big corporations. But there is still large numbers with medical and mental challenges that have no help or support in order for them to even attempt to make it even partially on their own. I have a friend that because he is wealthy and determined has had both legs removed because of a birth defect and yet has been able to excel due to the advanced technology that he has access to. I also have friends that were poor that went into service and lost both legs in combat but because of lack of access and funds spiral down eventually living out of their car not because they want to but because they see no other possibilities turn to using pain killers to avoid depression and quickly become addicted and then disappear on the streets when their car breaks down or is towed. Would it bother me to see my richer friend taxed to help the other friend? It wouldn’t but I would have high expectations that would require much more than just housing and there fore much more money as anything less is just wasting time and money. There just aren’t any simple easy answers. The thing that really bothers me is the problems are much more easy to prevent than they are to cure but cure is where we are at.
The easiest solution has always been to address the bottom 25% of a population. You want to solve a big chunk of the homeless problem, solve the education problem.
20 million in prison, another 34 million in poverty (2019 census), and growing. 32% of 4th graders can't read at a basic level. Passing children rather than teaching created a "Not my Fault, Not my Problem" society and those responsible for educating are blaming the parents. Parents or " a Parent", are to blame but it's obviously too late to fix that current scenario. Indeed, raising the wage minimum will help bridge the gap and should happen now. Those working will foot that bill anyway you spin it, so what's the hold-up?.
The top 25% of a population will always do just fine. Concentrating on educating the bottom of the class, that's where the time, talent and money needs to focus. I'd like to believe when a child's education becomes the first order of business, the cycle will begin to turn around.
https://www.census.gov/library/publ...~:text=In 2019, there were 34.0,and Table B-1).
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/02/6777...illions of,percent are proficient or advanced.
20 million in prison, another 34 million in poverty (2019 census), and growing. 32% of 4th graders can't read at a basic level. Passing children rather than teaching created a "Not my Fault, Not my Problem" society and those responsible for educating are blaming the parents. Parents or " a Parent", are to blame but it's obviously too late to fix that current scenario. Indeed, raising the wage minimum will help bridge the gap and should happen now. Those working will foot that bill anyway you spin it, so what's the hold-up?.
The top 25% of a population will always do just fine. Concentrating on educating the bottom of the class, that's where the time, talent and money needs to focus. I'd like to believe when a child's education becomes the first order of business, the cycle will begin to turn around.
https://www.census.gov/library/publ...~:text=In 2019, there were 34.0,and Table B-1).
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/02/6777...illions of,percent are proficient or advanced.
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