For those of you that carry . . . what would you do

[LMTLMT]

Before giving you guys the scenario I just want to say I do understand at the end of the day using a firearm is ultimately a personal decision, no textbook or step by step on how to approach as each situation is different and many variables.  I also understand the legal ramification may occur after even if i had the right to discharge.

#1 - You are overnight say at a truck stop, Walmart, empty beach parking lot or somewhere in BLM where all locations are pretty empty and not many rigs around, you are woken to noises coming from someone jiggling the side door handle & lock.  Then the jiggling move to the passenger door.  At this point its obvious that someone is try to break into your van or RV and you can actually see him.  However, you can't tell if he is armed or not, nor his true motives are.

At this point, you are armed inside your van and what is your next move??  

How can you deescalate the situation?  Would you announce you are inside the rig and hope he runs away by either yelling, banging from inside the van or honking horn?  or would you try to escape either out the back door and set up in a defensive position outside and call for help or 911?  or would you be totally silent and see if he actually breaks in, as he might be just trying to find an unlocked door but once he find its lock, he moves on. 
I struggle with this as I don't know if he is there to make a quick theft or desperate enough to rob and kill I just don't know.  I am leaning towards banging and yelling from inside of my van and be ready to escape and seek help.  if help can't be found, reposition myself in darkness.  I feel like if I continue to stay inside the van, I'll be sitting duck if he decides to fire thru the van from outside if we were out in the desert somewhere.   

#2 - He actually breaks the lock or window and opens the door and make entry at the same time you just woking and armed yourself
 . . . what's next?
Fire.  What choice do i have in that split second situation not knowing if he is also armed.  Like if someone just kick down my front door and entered my house.

I would like to hear how you would approach the above just to compare, like sharing notes.  I hope situations like this never happens but wouldn't hurt to at least talk about it as you just never know.

 

[Gunny]

1) Yell and tell to leave all while moving so my position changes. Put a green dot on him.

2)Kill him.

Rob

 

[AbuelaLoca]

I agree with you both. I don't like to think about it, but I know if I'm going to carry, I've got to be prepared to shoot.

However, I've watched some videos of women in vans who carry less lethal weapons and have mentally and physically practiced what to do in those situations.

I do plan to have a gun with me, but I'll also have a baseball bat, a knife, and maybe some other types of weapons as well. My fear of something like a bat is that I won't have the physical strength to hit someone hard enough but I can always use two fingers to pull the trigger...

 

[Ballenxj]

Before giving you guys the scenario I just want to say I do understand at the end of the day using a firearm is ultimately a personal decision, no textbook or step by step on how to approach as each situation is different and many variables.  I also understand the legal ramification may occur after even if i had the right to discharge.
<-------->
I would like to hear how you would approach the above just to compare, like sharing notes.  I hope situations like this never happens but wouldn't hurt to at least talk about it as you just never know.

I have actually had this happen three times in the past, twice in my house or apartment, and once in a vehicle. First house the burglar gained entry through the back door only to find himself staring down the barrel of a gun. He left much quicker than he came. I was not about to shoot him while he was running away, so I let him go.
Second time, this idiot kept trying to jimmy my door. I snatched the door open while his hand was still on the knob, gun at the ready, but out of his reach. The first words out of his mouth were, I think I'm at the wrong apartment. I agreed with him saying I think you're right. He left.
Third time a guy was almost in the window of my car while hitting me up for money. Without showing him anything I said, you are about to get seriously hurt. He apologized saying he didn't mean to disrespect me and left.
In your case I would use a firm, loud voice and inform him he is about to get seriously hurt. The odds are he will probably leave you alone after that. Why wait until the miscreant breaks your window?

 

[Gunny]

Abuelaloca, use what is comfortable for you. And practical. Spray in an enclosed area may blind you too, a bat is easily taken away from someone, a knife is a personal weapon and a knife wound, unless put in a killing area, just makes the person more irate.

I have an ice pick I would use if my weapon failed, aim for the eyes or temple. avoid the center mass and the breast plate, come in from the side and it will find the area between the ribs.

A pistol eliminates much of the guesswork. Two rounds, center mass and he may not drop immediantly but he's a cooked goose.

You stand a better chance of hitting the lottery than you do of being harmed camping. By humans. Animals make their own rules. Ha!

Rob

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I do plan to have a gun with me, but I'll also have a baseball bat, a knife, and maybe some other types of weapons as well. My fear of something like a bat is that I won't have the physical strength to hit someone hard enough but I can always use two fingers to pull the trigger...

If you need two fingers to pull a trigger you should have a gunsmith install a lighter trigger, most my guns have had trigger jobs, my rifle I shot competitively with had so light a trigger pull if you looked at it hard enough it would almost shoot.

 

[AbuelaLoca]

The trigger on my little .25 is pretty light! I just meant if my trigger finger wasn't strong enough, I'd use two 

This is an excellent subject and one I have thought about because it's one thing my kids are afraid of with me being alone. I'm going to buy those motion detector solar lights from Home Depot and my dog will never be quiet enough for me to sit in silence waiting... she'll start a hell of a ruckus and the would be thief will either run or get shot.

 

[Gunny]

You may consider moving up a notch or two in caliber. A .25 does not have much stopping power. Consider at least a 9mm or a .40, both have little recoil and much more stopping power.

Rob

 

[jonsun]

what do mean what do you do? You point your weapon at their head fully ready to squeeze if they do not immediately back down.

well actually the first thing that would happen is they get a face full of pitbull. while my baby is, well, a big baby, she does NOT take someone wrapping at my van sitting down. It's actually a bit of an issue.

the next thing to do is have a strong light in your left hand and your weapon in your right.

 

[Ballenxj]

what do mean what do you do? You point your weapon at their head fully ready to squeeze if they do not immediately back down.

Yup, never make an empty threat. It seems that somehow your adversary can usually tell if you're really serious or not.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

There are so many unknowns in your scenario that it is hard to give a good answer, but here goes:

1.> My beagle will be making a lot of angry noise as soon as someone is near my rig, so I will be awake, aware and armed.  If he comes and tries the door with all that racket I am on the floor with the door covered and call 911 (I have a truck camper with only one entrance).  I will talk real loud to the emergency operator so to let the perp know that I am in contact with police (even if I am not).  If I have a 911 contact I now have a record of the confrontation (stay on the phone!); if not I can still record with my phone.

2.> If the perp actually breaks in I fire until the threat is neutralized.

 - Depending on the state you are in you might need to argue you could not safely retreat.
 - You are in a better tactical situation outside your vehicle in cover than inside, but in a worse legal situation.
 - If you leave your vehicle, you have ceded the inside to the perp.  You cannot legally shoot someone for stealing.
 - You cannot shoot someone for property damage.  If the perp is unarmed about all you can do is record the event on your phone, unless you feel confident in a physical confrontation (I wouldn't try it if armed).
 - Always watch your back.  You never know if the perp is alone or working with others.

 -- Spiff

 

[Gary68]

"A suburban Detroit man was sentenced Wednesday to a minimum of 17 years in prison for the fatal shooting of an unarmed 19-year-old woman on his porch last November. Theodore Wafer, 55, apologized to Renisha McBride's family before his sentence was handed down. "From my fear, I caused the loss of a life that was too young to leave this world. And for that, I carry that guilt and sorrow forever," Wafer said.

Wafer killed McBride with a shotgun on Nov. 2, 2013, when she knocked on his Dearborn Heights door after getting into a car accident. He said he shot McBride, who had been drinking prior to her accident, because he feared for his life when he heard loud banging on his door very early in the morning"
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/renisha-mcbride-killer-gets-minimum-17-years-prison-n194366


"hey,can i help you"would be good before you go all hairtrigger

 

[jonsun]

somebody knocking is not the same as somebody jiggling locks and door handles of a camper

 

[hepcat]

First, as long as he's outside and you're inside, you have both a tactical and safety advantage. Leaving the van is a poor initial tactical decision. The odds are good that he doesn't know that the van is occupied, and as long as there's the van between you and him, he doesn't know where you are exactly and he can't touch you. If you leave the van, he knows EXACTLY where you are and he CAN go hands-on with you.

Since you have those advantages, deterrents in that situation are your best first move. The horn can be VERY loud when you're standing beside the engine compartment... and does several things: it'll make the suspect jump, telegraphs loudly that there's someone inside, and third makes noise that others may wake to and at least look at. Since car prowlers are primarily interested in what they can steal, not being in a confrontation, the odds are very good that all you'll see are feet running away. That will also force the crook to play his hand if he's more interested in an attack than being a car burglar.

If he sticks around and continues to try to break in, yell that you're armed and he's in a world of hurt if he gets through the door... and when he DOES get through the door, do what you need to do to keep yourself safe.

When the cops and coroner arrives some time later you can articulate that you were in fear for your safety, and the steps you took to be reasonable, and that despite all that the suspect was intent on harming you; and your story is backed up by the physical evidence.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

I'm not up on the legalities/carry in each state. The one that interests me is an AOW (super shorty perhaps). Guns and state laws seems a slippery slope (keeping up on rules). I'm not knowledgeable enough to be my own "carrying" lawyer. lol

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

In many states, the legal requirement is that if you CAN (safely) escape, you MUST escape.  Deadly force - which can be legally defined in some jurisdictions as just pointing a gun at someone - is not justified if you could have escaped.  However, you are NOT required to escape from your own house or apartment.  It's called the "Castle Doctrine".

In the situation you described, I would yell "GET OUT OF HERE!  I'VE GOT A GUN!"

Anybody actually breaking in is getting shot.

The foremost trainer in the country on such subjects is Massad Ayoob.  

I'm proud to say that I've got 80 hours of training time in with him.  He offers a twenty hour, classroom only course on the legality of using deadly force in self-defense.  I can't recommend it highly enough.

http://massadayoobgroup.com/mag-20-classroom/


He also literally wrote the book on self defense shootings:

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...refix=Massad+Ayoob,aps,161&crid=2APJ9J2HI1GS4


I also recommend membership in the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.  Awesome ongoing training, and they've got a legal defense fund of over a million dollars to assist members charged after a self defense shooting.

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/
BTW, if Mas's name is putting anybody off, he was born and raised in New Hampshire and talks with a decided New England twang.  The U.S. Army's handgun marksmanship manual is based on his training.

 

[highdesertranger]

I agree with spiff. my alarm would have started to growl when the person was close, this would wake me up. as soon as they tried the door the barking would start. my dog has a pretty healthy bark not like a small dog. if by chance the perp is stupid and continued, and if by chance they got in, first they would get bit, second they would get shot. basically before it accelerated to the point that I would have to answer questions and fill out paper work, I would ask them if they are stupid. highdesertranger

 

[Ballenxj]

  However, you are NOT required to escape from your own house or apartment.  It's called the "Castle Doctrine".

The foremost trainer in the country on such subjects is Massad Ayoob.  

MR Ayoob is well known and respected in circles of gun owners.  You're lucky to have had that opportunity.
About the castle doctrine, that should be everybody's right, but unfortunately not every state will agree with that. California comes to mind.
Sometimes I wonder who's side they are really on, the law abiding citizens, or the criminals?

 

[minimotos95]

I would vocally and physically intercept the second they touched the vehicle's handle, openly armed but and strong hand not on the grip. Nothing is worth taking a life but the lives of me and mine. If they turn out to be armed and of Ill intents my engagement time is next to nill.

Of course I am almost always remote So I would be on alert and armed long before they even reached my location, if somebody is able to walk up to your home without you knowing until they jiggle your door handles you need to work on situational awareness or rather resensitizing yourself to unnatural and out of place sounds and sights. Headlights, engine and tire noise can typically be giveaways from a mile or more away and as we know low life's are lazy so will not hike far. A good dog can cut down on your need for situational awareness but ideally you will both be paying attention to your surroundings.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Of course I am almost always remote So I would be on alert and armed long before they even reached my location, if somebody is able to walk up to your home without you knowing until they jiggle your door handles you need to work on situational awareness or rather resensitizing yourself to unnatural and out of place sounds and sights. Headlights, engine and tire noise can typically be giveaways from a mile or more away and as we know low life's are lazy so will not hike far. A good dog can cut down on your need for situational awareness but ideally you will both be paying attention to your surroundings.

I believe his original post specified being asleep in a truck stop or Walmart parking lot.