For those of you that carry . . . what would you do

[minimotos95]

I believe his original post specified being asleep in a truck stop or Walmart parking lot.

Or BLM land.
Even when you are overnighting in a parking lots you should be more aware but also more dismissive of "normal" activity.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Be very careful how you answer questions like these online. You'll not make your lawyer's job an easy one. The prosecution will dig all this stuff up you've said online and paint a picture for the jury that you were a trigger finger happy person just waiting for the chance to shoot someone.

 

[hepcat]

Forget whatever I said earlier.   I have reviewed my not-inconsiderable resources, and I have NEW best advice for you straight from THE most authoritative source on travel:  The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy!

[img=225x300]https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.12577445.7124/raf,750x1000,075,t,322e3f:696a94a5d4.u24.jpg[/img]

AND...

[img=400x400]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/b5/9c/feb59c444176ca78880acd0004e43b13.jpg[/img]

 

[XFILE36]

My last post somehow posted before I finished.  I edited it but it said I didnt have enough time.  I am re-posting it and I want EVERYONE to read it here:

Ballenxi,

I must chime in as I have first-hand experience in this area (California) unfortunately.  This is long, but EVERYONE should read it.  An angry neighbor came to my door and began yelling for me to open the door, began kicking and body slamming it telling me to open the fu**ing door you bit**.  She was at least 40 pounds more than I.  She said if I didn't open the door she was not going to let me sleep and come back every hour.  She left for a few minutes and came back...same scenario.  I grabbed the phone and my video cam and called 911.  I also held the door closed with all my body weight (left shoulder.)  It took forever for the stupid police to come and THEY WERE ALREADY IN THE BUILDING FOR A LOUD PARTY.  She actually broke through 2 deadbolts and a 3rd lock.  I NEVER expected to have to use a gun on a female neighbor...I always thought it would be a man in the middle of the night...

She left again and told me to call the police and send them to her door.  The police FINALLY (the station is 5 minutes away) came.  The molding showed obvious signs of a break in.  Do you know what the police officer had the nerve to say to me?   He said the door looks like it was already broken!  They also said if I wanted her arrested I would have to make a citizen's arrest and I would have to be like the prosecutor and show up to all court proceedings!  Needless to say, I wanted NOTHING to do with this person.  They told me I could file a restraining order, but that she could do the same to me!  (the victim!)  I don't use that word often.  I have heard that if you have a restraining order against you the judge can order all firearms out of your home!  That is the last thing I ever want.  So, I really couldn't do anything.  And the next day my shoulder was hurting from holding the door and it still hurts from July when I really use it. 

To be honest, I am armed, but the split second incident didn't give me time to think.  I want EVERYONE to think about this story and PRACTICE what you would do.  If I had shot her, I can guarantee I would have been arrested.  Since this incident, she is stalking me, yelling that I am a stupid fu**ing American bit** in front of my balcony and things like that.  I need to leave this god-forsaken state any way, but didn't expect to go this way. I am selling my home and getting the hell out of California, ASAP!   I advise anyone else to do the same.

 

[Ballenxj]

I must chime in as I have first-hand experience in this area (California) unfortunately. 

California is, and could be a beautiful state, but unfortunately the state is mentally challenged. State of confusion is an apt description.

 

[hepcat]

The foremost trainer in the country on such subjects is Massad Ayoob.  

I'm proud to say that I've got 80 hours of training time in with him.  He offers a twenty hour, classroom only course on the legality of using deadly force in self-defense.  I can't recommend it highly enough.

http://massadayoobgroup.com/mag-20-classroom/

BTW, John, I've got 35 years of living every day with weighing using "that amount of force necessary to overcome the resistance offered"  in defense of myself or others, sometimes two or three times a day, sometimes once a month... but you're ready every moment of every day.  And seven years into retirement, those habits haven't faded. 

The use of force "continuum" spans a number of tools, and you have to be prepared to use the proper tool at the proper time... there's no need to escalate through the options, though... you pick the right option initially for the amount and type of resistance offered.   "Civilians" will generally be held to a similar standard in the courts.  

This diagram from the Twin Cities PD illustrates the concept nicely:  

There's nothing like "being there" every day to finely hone one's sense of appropriateness.

 

[Dgorila1]

The first thing I would put a nice loud alarm system on the van. Either when the door opens or you hit the panic button it would go off and might be enough to deter 99% of the people.

 

[Dgorila1]

The first thing I would put a nice loud alarm system on the van. Either when the door opens or you hit the panic button it would go off and might be enough to deter 99% of the people.

If you really want to get fancy, I've read where some people have installed lighting on the outside of the vehicle that is hooked to a motion sensor and will activate when someone gets within so many feet of the vehicle.  This will give you a tactical vantage by illuminating the entire area around the vehicle and will ruin the night vision of the perpetrator

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

. . .  installed lighting on the outside of the vehicle that is hooked to a motion sensor . . . 

That is an excellent idea.  But instead of a motion sensor I would put it on a switch.  Otherwise any stray raccoon, squirrel, cat, or dog will activate it.  It does improve the tactical situation inside your van.  Might have to think about this.

 -- Spiff

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

BTW, John, I've got 35 years of living every day with weighing using "that amount of force necessary to overcome the resistance offered"  in defense of myself or others, sometimes two or three times a day, sometimes once a month... but you're ready every moment of every day.  And seven years into retirement, those habits haven't faded. 

There's nothing like "being there" every day to finely hone one's sense of appropriateness.

I worked as an armored car guard for about 7 years.  After that, I went to work for New York State, first in a mental hospital for a couple of years, and after that in a secure juvenile detention center for 23 years more.  I not only had to stop carrying most of the time, but any use of force my agency deemed excessive would result in a child abuse charge.

I believe I'm better than about 99% of the civilians on the street, but no way do I operate on the same level as you do after 35 years. 

Considering what you had to go through to achieve that level of competence, I'm not sure if I should compliment you or commiserate with you . . .

 

[Gunny]

I live in a black and white world. If someone is coming into my home, be it an RV or a tent, there is no such nicety of "Halt, Who is There?" my instinct is that they are coming to harm me or mine. No warning shots, or less than lethal shots to the arm or leg, my sole intent is to survive and to kill my opponent. I don't own a Tazer, or non lethal rounds, strictly Hydra-Shok.

All of this makes for an interesting discussion but in my years here in the US I have never brandished or pointed a weapon in anger. I did have my Sig in my hand when I thought a couple were stealing my ATV but never aimed or off of safety.

I mean no disrespect to LEO's here but you are in fact a civilian. Period. A sworn Peace Officer has the right to arrest but he or she is not military or paramilitary, they are civilians and should (but they are not) be held to the exact same standards as any other civilian. In Dallas and many municipalities cops have days to write their reports.

This was brought about in Dallas because two officers, in separate cars responded to a guy with a knife threatening his mother. When the cops roll up the guy is 50 ft away with a kitchen knife. Both officers forgot to start their cameras strangely enough. The bad guy had rolled out a desk type chair and was standing beside it when one cop shoots at him four times because he was "charging directly towards me". He was a lousy a shot as he was cop, only hit the guy once and it was not a lethal wound.

Both officers, in their SWORN statements tell the same story, guy was charging them. Then, 'lo and behold, a neighbor comes home and watches his home security system and the 'bad guy' was standing arms at his sides not moving an inch. The cop that shot was just a liar covering his ass and his fellow cop said he was so confused by the incident he followed the first cops lead in writing his report. They fired the shooter and gave the other guy time off.

Now, Dallas cops get 72 hours to calm down before writing their statements.

The guy lived, he's a millionaire now courtesy of the Dallas taxpayers and life goes on.

Rob

 

[hepcat]

I live in a black and white world. 

I mean no disrespect to LEO's here but you are in fact a civilian. Period. A sworn Peace Officer has the right to arrest but he or she is not military or paramilitary, they are civilians and should (but they are not) be held to the exact same standards as any other civilian. In Dallas and many municipalities cops have days to write their reports.  

This was brought about in Dallas because two officers, in separate cars responded to a guy with a knife threatening his mother. When the cops roll up the guy is 50 ft away with a kitchen knife. Both officers forgot to start their cameras strangely enough. The bad guy had rolled out a desk type chair and was standing beside it when one cop shoots at him four times because he was "charging directly towards me". He was a lousy a shot as he was cop, only hit the guy once and it was not a lethal wound.

Rob

Rob,  

To correct some misapprehensions here... first we live in a world that is ONLY shades of gray... there is very seldom black or white.

And, as a retired LEO, I am NOT a civilian for the purposes of what we're discussing here.  As I honorably retired from my position, Federal and State law allows me to retain my law enforcement certification, provided that I qualify with my firearms as a peace officer annually as required by law.  It's an interesting distinction, and I have considerably wider latitude in carry than "civilians."  I'm not sure my powers of arrest remain that of a peace officer...  which, by the way,  only differ from 'civilians' in the ability of a LEO to arrest on 'probable cause.'  The rest of us have to know that an offense occurred and that the person we're arresting committed that offense.  

So please don't color all LEOs with the brush that those two morons used.   I arrested a Marine as for the rape of a female sailor when I was stationed on Guam forty years ago...  does that make ALL Marines rapists?  I think not.  There are dimwits and numbskulls in EVERY line of work, and law enforcement is no different despite the extensive screening and training.  In my first academy class, one of my classmates (a sergeant by then no less) was arrested for doing some sixty commercial burglaries on duty.  I've seen co-workers arrested for rape, robbery... the whole gamut.  The way to judge an agency is NOT by who commits what crimes on-duty, but how quickly and effectively the agency deals with problem employees who engage in misconduct.  

I'm proud that in my 35 years, I was never personally named in a lawsuit for any perceived misconduct;  never had a founded misconduct complaint lodged against me;  and for the last 11 years of my career as a Chief, neither of the agencies I ran were sued for any reason nor did I have a founded misconduct complaint lodged against any of my employees.  I am REALLY proud of the people who worked for me.

 

[AbuelaLoca]

I actually have been getting a little anxious reading this topic, sort of letting the fear win... However, when I think back on my life to the rare times I've been backed into a corner, I remember what I instinctively did to get out of it, and I calm down. Staying safe and avoiding trouble has always been a mantra of mine because my mother had a pretty rough life and she made sure all 5 of her girls could get themselves out of a bad situation. But again, I'm glad the subject has been brought up so I can remember things like the solar motion detector lights and always making sure I park so I can just jump in the driver's seat and take off...

 

[Ballenxj]

  I'm glad the subject has been brought up so I can remember things like the solar motion detector lights and always making sure I park so I can just jump in the driver's seat and take off...

That's what this whole forum is supposed to be about, learning from one another.
When I initially got started into the RV life, I bought class A motorhomes for the same reasons you stated. I could simply fire it up and drive away. That's the theory anyway.

 

[TrainChaser]

"...I would be on alert and armed long before they even reached my location..."

Today is April 29, and that is the silliest thing I've seen or read this month. Ever alert, ever awake, ever aware. Yeah, sure. Too many movies, sweetie.

Only one poster here mentioned shining a bright light in the perp's face. This would seem to have at least three advantages: he/she knows someone is in the van, it will blind them, and it should let you see who it is.

 

[minimotos95]

If you turn off the TV, radio, fans, A/C and other garbage numbing your senses even those aircraft at cruising altitude will wake you out of a dead sleep. let alone foot steps or a vehicle on the ground

 

[Ballenxj]

"...I would be on alert and armed long before they even reached my location..."
<-------->
Only one poster here mentioned shining a bright light in the perp's face.  This would seem to have at least three advantages:  he/she knows someone is in the van, it will blind them, and it should let you see who it is.

Be alert! the world needs more Lerts.   
Serious face back on now. Lights on outside of van? Good. Shining a light through a vehicle window? Not so good. If you've ever done that at night you'll know the reflected light will also light you up, not to mention obscuring your night vision while giving your position away. Again, not so good, especially if you're up against a serious felon that intends to do you harm because now this person knows what you look like too, and whether male or female. For you females out there this could be a big disadvantage unless your name is Rhonda Rousey.
OTOH, that will probably work for the occasional door handle wiggler.
Hey, I just want everybody to be as safe as possible.

 

[Gunny]

Hepcat, I'm sorry if you thought I was being derogatory toward you or the thousands of cops who do their jobs according to 'the rules', I didn't mean to be.

I have had very few interactions with police, speeding and no seat belt in Ohio but I was in fact wearing a seat belt, I had the strap that goes across the chest tucked behind me because I had just had a cast taken off and the strap hurt. Still got the ticket. As he wrote the ticket I said not one word after explaining why. As he handed me the ticket he made the comment "You Texas Boys don't like getting a ticket from a black man do you?".

While driving a Government vehicle a woman decide to come into my lane. I was stopped. Waiting on a damn train to clear but the cop asked why I didn't yield. Then told me she had better things to do than waste her time on an accident report. I told her the Government requires one.

There are many Marines who end up in the brig or jail. It is easy to discharge a bad apple. I've yanked the security clearance or caused the clearance to be yanked of several Marines, in effect ruining their career. Not an action I took lightly. Not all were low ranking snuffies.

Compare the ease of discharging a Marine gone bad to firing a Police Officer who is proven to be bad.

From reading your posts and chatting with you I would say you were an exemplary Police Officer. We still need an officer review board that has actual ability to fire and prosecute LEO's that kill or rob or beat without just cause.

Anyway, I won't comment anymore on this, I think reforms need to be made and I'll leave it at that.

Rob

 

[lenny flank]

Alas, we can play "what if" games all day. The simple reality is that such theoretical scenarios virtually never happen in the real world. The vast majority of people are simply never the victim of an attack and never need to defend themselves--and even if someone breaks into your van while you are in it (an enormously rare occurrence) they are far more likely to be interested in your camera or laptop, not in you, and are not looking for a confrontation. The rather irrational fear of "something happening!!" simply reinforces the public's view that van-dwelling is unsafe and dangerous. It is not.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Man reading some of these posts, I can see why so many new comers are so scared to go out on the road. It's the United States of America, hardly a scary place to be. Made up up thousands of city and towns like the one you live in. Some better than others but all pretty safe.

You don't need an armored van with motion detector alarms and search lights blasting up the night sky. If that's what it takes for you to be comfortable than so be it, but it's almost guaranteed you'll never need it.