Amateur radio

[DannyB1954]

I put a horizontal loop around part of my back yard fed by an antenna tuner.

 

[skyl4rk]

I am using a Bitx40 on a dipole, it seems to work OK, although I have had to fix things and mount it in a box: http://www.hfsigs.com/

I am building it to be a mobile rig using an old metal box I had. I have to say it is not the most robust construction. I have had to fix loosely hanging toroids in both radios I bought. I broke one of the radios but I think I can fix it, waiting on parts. I only recommend this to people who like to work with electronics and ham radios, because you will probably have to work on the thing.

Receive is good so I can listen, even if it does not have a lot of power. It is more something to tinker with than a reliable form of communication. But it does receive well and I have made contacts with 7 watts. You have to wait for good conditions and avoid noisy band areas.

I just got some stuff for my van:

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1640t
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-342T

I'm not expecting much in the way of transmission, but I hope that reception is good with the MFJ hamstick. I will let you know.

 

[Goshawk]

I am using a Bitx40 on a dipole, it seems to work OK, although I have had to fix things and mount it in a box: http://www.hfsigs.com/

I am building it to be a mobile rig using an old metal box I had. I have to say it is not the most robust construction. I have had to fix loosely hanging toroids in both radios I bought. I broke one of the radios but I think I can fix it, waiting on parts. I only recommend this to people who like to work with electronics and ham radios, because you will probably have to work on the thing.

Receive is good so I can listen, even if it does not have a lot of power. It is more something to tinker with than a reliable form of communication. But it does receive well and I have made contacts with 7 watts. You have to wait for good conditions and avoid noisy band areas.

I just got some stuff for my van:

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1640t
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-342T

I'm not expecting much in the way of transmission, but I hope that reception is good with the MFJ hamstick. I will let you know.

Bitx40 is cool. It's less than $100 for an HF radio and you can't argue with that. Still need a few more parts to make it work. Was thinking about getting one too. But likely will get an ft857 if I can find a bargain at $600 with filters.


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[Gardenias]

After watching:

and reading some of the comments that followed, I'm revisiting amateur radio.
After reading most of the posts that relate to amateur radio, I learned and came to the conclusion that:
I'll not let my technician class license lapse; and for now, technician class will do.
Fortunately, I still have an icom IC-2sat 144MHz FM transceiver (which was purchased new). I remember using it maybe just once(?) before storing it. I hope that it still works because the new case that came with it is disintegrating.
Of course, I'll have to refresh whatever I'd learned to obtain the license.
Any comments, or suggestions?

 

[Goshawk]

After watching:

and reading some of the comments that followed, I'm revisiting amateur radio.
After reading most of the posts that relate to amateur radio, I learned and came to the conclusion that:
I'll not let my technician class license lapse; and for now, technician class will do.
Fortunately, I still have an icom IC-2sat 144MHz FM transceiver (which was purchased new). I remember using it maybe just once(?) before storing it. I hope that it still works because the new case that came with it is disintegrating.
Of course, I'll have to refresh whatever I'd learned to obtain the license.
Any comments, or suggestions?

5w hand held is good for many ham radio 2m repeaters within 1 to 5 miles. Will you have that available? Inside a city yes, but you already have a cellphone.

You really need a 50w plus radio that has 2m and 440m also, with maybe a directional antenna for that 50w. That could get you 20miles connectivity almost always to a repeater. But then someone needs to be listening and responding. Many repeaters are so much dead air space with no one responding. Around $150 in cheap Chinese equipment.

Next level of connectivity is really a hard step. It's learning and using Morse code with your technician license. It can be done. But more equipment around $500 more.

If you get a general license you can go digital with jt65, and psk and winlink plus you will need at least $1000 worth of equipment.

Your choice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[speedhighway46]

Forget CW; upgrade to General Class and get on sideband 80-10 meters. Check into the numerous on-air nets; make lots of friends; you'll never be lonesome again!

I check into the RV Service Net on 40 meters in the morning; Midcars to let the regulars I'm still alive; and an evening Net on 75 meters. I have known some of these folks 25 years and they are like family, even though I've never met them!

Just my opinion . . .

 

[caretaker]

1 last thing,,remember when we were young,,,,what did we do to rabbit ear antennas to get better reception,,,,,yup,,,,tin foil,,,so it would stand to reason that if you make a hat out of tinfoil, it would,,,,,,IMPROVE govt reception of brain waves,,,,,THINK people,,,,you would need to make a WIDE brim hat, based on something like a faraday cage,,,,its not that hard,,,,,SNARKSNARKSNARK

 

[speedhighway46]

Well this has nothing to do with the thread topic . . .

 

[Gardenias]

speedhighway46, Could I bypass the general class licensing exam and take the extra class one straightaway?

Goshawk, Would equipment for general or extra class licenses fit in a car?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

No, you have to pass them in order.  But you can take them on the same day.

When I took the tests, I passed the Technician, and then immediately took and passed the General, so I was issued a General license.

You'll have to take and pass the General test, and then you can immediately take the Extra test.

There are cases on record of people taking all three tests the same day, and passing all three, and thus immediately getting their Extra class license.

 

[speedhighway46]

You have to take each exam in the increasing level of knowledge. For that you earn broader operating privileges. However, you can take more than one exam at each session. So take your the General, pass it and then take the Extra.

Just study on line and take the practice exams, or buy the printed study guides from the ARRL. For exam sessions and dates go to arrl.org.

Good luck to you and maybe we'll chat on 40 meters!

 

[tx2sturgis]

I just found this thread and direct this to HDR or anyone looking to get into the hobby at an entry level, for reasonable cash outlay, but still be able to make contacts, pass the hours, meet people, and have backup comms in case of emergency.


Look for a good name brand dual-band mobile radio:

Kenwood

Icom

Yaesu

Alinco

Then look for a decent dual-band (2/70) antenna and mount:

Comet

Diamond

Hustler

Larsen

Tram


Get your technician license first, or at least be studying for it when you shop for a radio and antenna.

There is a lot of jargon and technobabble in the Ham Radio hobby...but just try to stay focused on the brands I mentioned.

Of course you can go buy an inexpensive handheld but unless you are fairly close to a repeater it wont work very well.

A 50 watt mobile dual-band radio and a decent dual band antenna will work very well when you are within say, 40 miles of a repeater, or up to 100 miles away if that repeater is on the top of a nice mountain in the area.

Hams install mountain-top repeaters all over the USA, and if you can see a mountain from where you are, chances are that there will be a ham repeater up there. Not EVERY mountain, but many of them.

Good luck!

 

[Putts]

Wow, great thread, thanks to all you HAMs for contributing.

Sometime next year I plan to test to a General license. I'm an electronics technician and understand super heterodyne and SWR and stuff. I can brush up quite easily on the tech stuff, it's mostly the rules and band details I'll have to commit to memory, so I don't think it'll be too hard for me.

I have a couple of questions:

I have a step van with aluminum roof.  How important is it for the antennas to be centered on the roof to provide a good ground plain? Currently I plan to mount the antennas on a bar across the roof that will allow it to rotate down and flat against the roof when traveling, and can be raised upright with a fitting I can reach with a pole from the side.

I want to place multiple antennas on this mount. How close together can they be and not interfere with each other? Don't want to key the transmitter and blow up the front end of another radio attached to a different antenna.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I have a couple of questions:

I have a step van with aluminum roof.  How important is it for the antennas to be centered on the roof to provide a good ground plain? Currently I plan to mount the antennas on a bar across the roof that will allow it to rotate down and flat against the roof when traveling, and can be raised upright with a fitting I can reach with a pole from the side.

I want to place multiple antennas on this mount. How close together can they be and not interfere with each other? Don't want to key the transmitter and blow up the front end of another radio attached to a different antenna.

The fact that you even asked these questions means you have a good, really good, grasp of the fundamentals here.

On VHF/UHF, the groundplane effect is sufficient with small roofs such as on an economy car, so you can place that antenna almost anywhere on the roof, preferably near the cab with a short feedline, and have a good setup.

VHF and UHF radios and antennas are almost plug-n-play, they work well, pretty much right out of the box.

Generally speaking, I'd make sure the VHF/UHF dual band antenna is at least 3 or 4 feet (or more) from any other antenna, especially an AM/FM radio antenna, a TV antenna, satellite antenna, or wifi/cellphone antenna, if you go that route. High power, 'near-field' RF from the 2meter/440 radio can knock out the front end of a sensitive radio or antenna preamplifier. And, noise from those sources, as we talked awhile back, can partially 'desense' the VHF/UHF radio receiver.

HF is where things get a bit more complicated, and some thought has to go into the installation.

Most of the time, HF antennas and transmitters will not interfere with, or be influenced by, VHF/UHF antennas or radios, but still, common sense means they should not be close enough to have the elements touch each other when driving and transmitting, or during windy conditions while parked.

Antenna elements that touch or rub together is bad.

The HF antennas DO need maximum bonding to the ground structure of the vehicle, and depending on the bands being used, and the antenna chosen, you might need rooftop access to tune and adjust the antennas periodically. So you probably want to plan the installation around those considerations.

Of course, there are many HF vehicle antennas that are tuned remotely, they cost more, but they pay off in operator convenience. Also, you can use a portable wire antenna when boondocking in the woods or the desert, and these work well, but of course, cant be used while in motion.

BTW I have seen fold-over racks for banks of antennas on emergency communications vehicles, and they work very well.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[tx2sturgis]

I missed the edit 'window' on this point:

Mobile HF verticals tend to work best if positioned at one end of the vehicle or the other, NOT centered.

This is due to the longest counterpoise (vehicle structure) that you can provide, making the SWR easier to adjust, its actually feedpoint impedance matching, but SWR is what we all call it.

The very best place, as far as RF performance, for any big boxy vehicle, is to mount the HF vertical near the back, on a good solid mount, near the very top of the vehicle, leaning back at about a 45 degree angle. This makes the matching easy, it performs well, and within reason, the vehicle might be able to be driven in this configuration, depending on the antenna chosen...Hamsticks work well this way, but they have a narrow bandwidth.

Any good vertical HF antenna can be mounted this way, but an expensive, heavy, remotely tuned 'screwdriver' antenna will probably need to be folded forward or down or removed before driving on the public roads.

 

[Putts]

Thanks Brian.

Sounds like I should put the HF antenna on the back stowed going forward flat against the roof and then flipped up and back on a forty five degree angle. That should be pretty easy. If in this position doest the polar radiation pattern become more directional along the roof towards the front of the vehicle?

How long are VHF/UHF antennas? Given I should separate them from others I could mount them on the front of the vehicle. Can I mount them, say, centered on the hood, or even the front bumper, so they don't exceed the hight of the vehicle and won't need to be removed? Or will that cause the radiation pattern to have a blind spot where blocked by the vehicle?

If I mount the VHF/UHF antenna on the hood and put wifi, TV, and AM/FM radio antennas in the middle of the roof will that be enough attenuation not to fry a front end? What about CB radio antennas? Can I put the UFH/VHF antennas on one side of the hood, and CB on the other separated by about 8 feet but still on the same ground plain and be safe for both radios?

 

[rvpopeye]

Only having one radio at a time hooked to one of those antennas on your roof will help protect the receive on other radios.

Although....
I can remember my neighbor turning his 40' beam in my direction and lighting up the receive on my radio (that was turned off) !

Speed
Whaddaya mean forget CW ?
All that time for nothing !
dit dit dah dit - dit dit dah - dah dit dah dit
(it's ok , I didn't finish)

 

[Putts]

I almost started a war with Russia when I was in the Coast Guard. I was a gun fire control technician (FT)...I ran he radar that pointed the big gun on the front of the boat. I was in the director (a little gray box at the top of the ship you could sit in and point the parabolic antenna to track plains) and we were sitting in the middle of a fleet of Russian fishing boats. There was this one boat that didn't look like the others; no rust and all medium gray and blue sort of camouflaged with antennas all over it. I told my buddy FT downstairs in the radar control room about it. (The director and gun fire control room were classified spaces that we had all to ourselves, so no one else could hear our chatter or see us.) He told me to point the dish at the weird ship (the radar transmitter was off but it was receiving). He said, "Holy crap, I got running rabbits everywhere!" Running rabbits is geek slang for a bunch of interference patterns on our scopes from all the RF coming from the other ship. We reckoned it was an snoopy electronic signal spy ship.

So, being 20 years old and full of mischief, we decided it would be fun to light up the radar (something like 40Watts at 4gHz) paint the spy ship for a minute. (To "paint" with a radar means we transmitted right at the spy ship and swept it back and forth a bit, possibly toasting the front end of its sensitive receivers. After a minute or so we shut it down. About 15 minutes later, all of a sudden, our ship spools up the turbines (we had both diesel and turbine engines; diesel for cruising and turbines for when we wanted to accelerate or maneuver fast) and we take off like a bat out of hell.

Tried to get the scoop later from the radiomen but they didn't know. Evidently the captain and XO were called to the radio room for a classified talk to Washington, but that's all anyone knew. We never heard a peep, but I'm damn sure there was some high up brass serious talk about acts of war or something and we were told to high-tail it out of there.

Sheesh....kids!

 

[tx2sturgis]

For HF, the polar plot is a mess when its mounted on a vehicle. Suffice it to say that it simply wont matter in the real world...band conditions are much more important.

On a vehicle, with HF, any antenna for 160, 80, and 40, will have negative gain. That's right. No gain at all. They are essentially a dummy load that manages to radiate about 5-10% of the power that is fed into it. Some antennas do better, some do less, and yet we STILL manage to make contacts all over planet Earth, or at least North America.

So dont worry about polar plots or gain figures. Not on HF, anyway.

Switching to VHF/UHF, a good performing dual band antenna will be between 4 and 6 feet long...and it does need to be mounted on the roof if at all possible. Hood mounting is second best, but dont mess with a bumper mount for VHF/UHF....it will perform badly, if at all.

VHF/UHF (also refered to as 2meter/440) needs a good clear line of sight mounting, and a good ground plane to achieve the gain quoted, and if its on the bumper, you might as well just use a coat-hangar draped out the window.  Seriously! lol

CB radios are on the lowest tier of this program, so save the best locations for the ham stuff, and fit the CB antenna in the last, least desirable place, hood or even bumper mounting will work, more or less. Remember, the CB is mostly for short contacts, vehicle to vehicle, and a couple of miles of range is about all that can be expected. (When the 11 meter band is open, you will hear stations from all over the country, but unless you are running an amplifier, you wont be able to talk to them anyway)

One thing that can and does happen, is that a typical CB radio has little or no front end selectivity. Its likely to be useless if you are transmitting on any of the ham rigs...it will squeal, buzz, hiss, pop, or burp, or all of the above...as it has no filtering to reduce near-field RF. Nature of the beast. Just turn it off when that happens, and mainly use it when convoying with other RVers to coordinate your travels and meal and gas stops.

 

[Putts]

Switching to VHF/UHF, a good performing dual band antenna will be between 4 and 6 feet long...and it does need to be mounted on the roof if at all possible. Hood mounting is second best, but dont mess with a bumper mount for VHF/UHF....it will perform badly, if at all.

So if the HF is on the back and the UHF/VHF in the middle of the roof it will have about 8 feet of separation. Is that enough?  Truth is I'm likely to only use the stuff enough to make sure its being maintained properly and I'm familiar enough with it and a few folks here and there so in case of emergency I'm not fumbling around and I know who I can contact. So, the HF will most likely be used just for fun listening and mildly chatting with folks in far away places. I can probably just disconnect the antenna to the UHF/VHF radio (it will be easily accessible) when I do that.

Is it possible to turn Putt into a repeater? I'd like to be able to talk on a hand-held and have Putt repeat it for better range to a fixed repeater.

Lastly some folks have mentioned digital radio. Is it possible to hook into internet service that way?