Amateur radio

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Is it possible to turn Putt into a repeater? I'd like to be able to talk on a hand-held and have Putt repeat it for better range to a fixed repeater.

Yes.  You need a radio that specifically has cross band repeat functions.

If properly programmed, you could use a 5watt handheld to broadcast back to side 1 of your radio, and the receiver there would forward it to the transmitter of side 2 of your radio, which would send it with 50 watts of power and a much better antenna than you handheld has, to the nearest repeater, which, if were part of the right network, would relay it across the country or around the world for you.

Take a look at a Yaesu 8900, it has that feature and operates on 4 bands.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Only having one radio at a time hooked to one of those antennas on your roof will help protect the receive on other radios.

This is true and I should have pointed out that there are coax switches that have protection built in for just this scenario. Alpha-Delta makes some good stuff that grounds the un-used ports, protecting whatever is hooked to that port.

And another variable, is the power levels involved. In my advise, I assume a 50 watt mobile dual-band radio, a 4 watt CB, and a 100 or maybe 200 watt HF transceiver.

If Mr Putt decides twice as much is still not half enough, and runs 160 watts on VHF, 1500 watts on HF, and 500 watts on CB, then the answers and solutions will be radically affected.

Of course, no amplifiers have been mentioned so far, so I leave them out of the equation....for now.

 

[tx2sturgis]

So if the HF is on the back and the UHF/VHF in the middle of the roof it will have about 8 feet of separation. Is that enough? 

Is it possible to turn Putt into a repeater? I'd like to be able to talk on a hand-held and have Putt repeat it for better range to a fixed repeater.

Lastly some folks have mentioned digital radio. Is it possible to hook into internet service that way?

Again, in normal situations (read: no amplifiers), a VHF/UHF radio and an HF radio (and their antennas) will play nice in near proximity, since the frequencies involved are so widely separated. 8 to 10 feet physical seperation should be more than enough, we make that work everyday running mobile ham equipment in cars and SUVs.

Another possibility, is to buy one radio that covers everything, and does it all. These cost more, but they do more.

There are several of these 'shack-in-a-box' radios, we also refer to them as 'DC-to-daylight' radios...

These will cost in the neighborhood of about $1000 to maybe $2000, depending on model, features, and options...they will receive damn near everything, including AM/FM radio, Shortwave, Police, all HF bands, 2 meters, (VHF) 440, (UHF) 50 mhz (6 meters), CB radio, aircraft,  some have military monitoring capability, and even satellite and VLF (earth noises) monitoring.

These will transmit out of the box on all legal ham frequencies, and most can be modified to do some...how shall we put this...out-of-band operations. (the other hams here know what I'm referring to).

Essentially you can use it as a $1500 CB radio or a really powerful GMRS base station...things like that.

The only downside to these radios besides cost, is that if you are monitoring say, the local repeater for an important call from a friend, then its impossible to also be enjoying a ragchew on 40 meters HF to some Ham way off in Canada or wherever.

So they do a LOT...but only one thing at a time. Most of them do have the option to scan all of the frequencies that interest you, but again, they will (with one or two exceptions) NOT be able to transmit on HF while monitoring a local VHF/UHF repeater.

Still, they make a good all-in-one solution, and by their very design, all the bands included will play nice with all the other bands built-in, and you just install the appropriate antennas and go on the air!

And yes, you can buy a radio that can do cross-band repeat as rvpopeye mentions...and it works well, within reason.

As far as digital radio, HF and VHF/UHF, there are limitations to file size and speed, and the network you are using...but it can be done...but it is basically for text-based email, maybe a few jpg pictures, and thats about the practical limit of it...in most places.

 

[Putts]

Thanks y'all, good stuff!

 

[GypRat]

I've been an active ham operator for over 30 years. 
HF (shortwave) bands is where the fun is. I currently have a big station at home, with a kilowatt amplifier and a big 40-10m Yagi antenna on a 75 ft. tower. This pretty much covers globe-wide communications.
There is a way to have a relatively capable mobile Hf station as well. A good antenna is the most important part of this hobby. I always advise to get a Tarheel mobile Hf antenna. Get the biggest one you can install on your vehicle or a travel trailer. I use a Tarheel model 75A on my 4Runner SUV. Te radios is an Icom 7000. The radio is not the greatest but it puts out 100 watts. It's not unusual for me to talk to stations in Europe, South America, Australia etc.
For local communications, VHF/UHF bands are the best. I would strongly advise to get a dual band radio, capable of cross-band repeater function. Something like a Kenwood TM-V71A or a Yeasu FT-8800. Cross band repeater function is a great feature. You can basically set your mobile radio to act as a repeater, so you can be withing several miles from your vehicle and talk to a distant station through the mobile radio which has more power and a better antenna than the handheld radio you walk around with. 
A good antenna is a must. I've been happy with a Comet SBB5, mounted on my vehicle's back door edge. 

Stay away from cheap Chinese radios. Their quality is poor and warranty is almost non-existent. Anything from Yaesu, Icom, Kenwood and Alinco will do great for you.


Ham radio tests are very easy to pass. A Technician class manual covers the basics. Most electronics theory is same as what taught in a middle and high school Physics class. A General class license test is very easy as well. A General class license will give you access to all shortwave (HF) and UHF/VHF bands.
Gordon West published the best study manuals in his books. Amazon sells them for around $19. You can also practice test questions online.
Another great resource is HamRadio360.com podcast. The guy does a great job bringing experts to cover a lot of topics related to ham radio, in a very informative format. Check it out, you''l love it.

Please feel free to ask any questions. Good luck!

 

[tx2sturgis]

Or, instead of spending $10,000 on all that stuff, you can spend nothing, and get 'on the air' with Echolink. I have an acquaintance with a new ham license who does exactly that. He is retired on a fixed income and doesnt even own a radio, but he does have a smartphone and internet, and the Echolink app.

He talks all over the world!

Of course, it needs internet, but that's everywhere, right?

 

[Scott7022]

As this is a pretty wide open thread I will post a question to the experts. I have a restricted radio, telephone operators license it was issued by the Canadain department of communications. Basically, I can use any radio mounted in anything except a spacecraft. When I bought my boat radio I went to one of the biggest communications stores in Vancouver and told him I needed a radio to get out of the mountain ringed lakes I putted Last Call in. He asked what my license was and I produced it and he was not really aware of it. So he called the DOC and they told sell him anything he wants. It pissed of my ham friends as back then you needed morse code to pass the Ham test. Yes, a long time ago but it is a grandfathered license. I know it doesn't apply stateside, but then as has been mentioned you have cellular almost everywhere. But in the cold great white north we do not, with that in mind (ANything is legal and it is all permitted) what radio would you suggest? I like the do everything version that was mentioned I won't be gabbing to three people at a time. Do these 'do everything' versions use a single antenna?

 

[tx2sturgis]

But in the cold great white north we do not, with that in mind (ANything is legal and it is all permitted) what radio would you suggest? I like the do everything version that was mentioned I won't be gabbing to three people at a time. Do these 'do everything' versions use a single antenna?

Scott, you can usually buy anything, whether you have the license or not.

To legally transmit on Ham Radio frequencies you need a license in (or from) the country you are in. Any other license does not cut it, legally. There may be exceptions here and there, but all civilized countries, (meaning not war-torn) subscribe to this.

Here is a list of the ITU members where these rules are on the books, if not enforced: https://www.itu.int/online/mm/scripts/gensel8

I'm just covering that first.

For the actual hardware, you will need usually at least 2 antennas, one for the lower bands, and one (or more) for the higher bands. Any antenna advertised as 'all-bands' is always a limited compromise.

Will this equipment be in a vehicle or a fixed location? Or both? Also, will this be for a hobby or SHTF scenarios?

IIRC, you are in Russia somewhere, and Russian hams are very active, and they have a variety of equipment that we don't have access to over here in the USA...

 

[tx2sturgis]

I'm not all that familiar with getting a ham license in Canada or Russia...but here are a few places to get some information:


http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/icgc.nsf/eng/h_07048.html#ic-subnav-2-


http://www.arrl.org/news/russia-now-permits-reciprocal-licensing-through-cept


http://minsvyaz.ru/en/ministry/common/

 

[Scott7022]

Hey Brian,

Yeah it gets a little more complicated up here. Here is a link to an overview. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-96-484/page-1.html#h-6. Governement webiste.

Basically we had a special department that governed it and it got rolled into industry Canada catch all depratment. They voided all the previously issued Certificates and several bigger departments facing new ceritfication espenses in an environment of financial restraint lost it! IC backed up and grandfathered all of them. They were issued to boaters, private aircraft, land based stations (base needs a license) and operators need one too and space men. The vessels all had call signs so those were used. So we can leave out space men. But some of us, like me, had all three boxes ticked. Basically allows me to use the radio in a strict environment. Now it is handled more like the US with HAM the difference we were professional users. We have reciprocal agreements between our countries. Here in Russia I'd imagine it would be a nightmare like any certification process. This is for Canada only. It will be mounted in the vehicle and used in dire cases, but I would like to listen to emergency services. Punch out on CB. I know baja runners used some pretty high power rigs. Occasional HF use under the allowable restrictions imposed in Canada. The other side of this coin is even if someone got a bee in their bonnet because of power/usage it wouldn't make it past the second door in the govt office before it got round filed or lost. It was a huge cluster screw and they won't open it up. This being said the radio outside of CB frequencies would only be used in emergencies when the Sat phone couldn't or wouldn't. A redundant back up.

I really don't need/want to have chat sessions on Ham frequencies about world events.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Ok...what I think I got from this, is that you expect to have a backup SHTF (or prepper) comm system in place... and trust me on this, for daily operating, your radio telephone permit is of no use in the Ham Bands. It is a different service. It is possible that your existing license will carry over, or provide credit towards, the ham license testing...but you will STILL need a ham license and call sign...there is no way to get around that.

But it sounds like you wont be operating daily or regularly within the hobby aspects of Ham Radio, even though you might buy a ham radio. And neither will you be using all that gear professionally, since you did not mention a use for it in that way.

So, we can skip right to the bottom line with the hardware.

You can buy a nice $2000 multi-band rig (either ham or maritime SSB) and the appropriate antennas and all the batteries and power supplies, interconnecting cables, antenna tuners, and microphone (another $1000 total) that you will need.

But you really wont be using the equipment for anything...

So, just buy a sturdy, waterproof, metal case thats EMP compliant, load it all in there, store it, and hope it all works when you need it. (We call these 'Go Boxes').

BTW the maritime (or merchant marine) SSB radios already have the emergency channels programmed in.

And Scott, my friend, lets just assume you will somehow understand how it all works and know how to use it when the time comes.

Because....radios and complex radio systems are a lot like firearms, you need to practice with them, or they will not be familiar to you when you need them the most.

 

[highdesertranger]

there are plenty of places out west that cell phones do not work. a CB works for a limited distance but you need someone with a CB on the other end for it to be any good. in your very rural counties in the west many of the sheriff stations monitor the emergency bands on Ham radio. in some small communities it is their only communication to the outside world. therefore I have a ham radio no license yet but will get one before I transmit. highdesertranger

 

[Goshawk]

Or, instead of spending $10,000 on all that stuff, you can spend nothing, and get 'on the air' with Echolink. I have an acquaintance with a new ham license who does exactly that. He is retired on a fixed income and doesnt even own a radio, but he does have a smartphone and internet, and the Echolink app.

He talks all over the world!

Of course, it needs internet, but that's everywhere, right?

There are several online tools besides EchoLink to get on the air over internet. All free. Some people have even posted their radio on internet. To share.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[speedhighway46]

I'm really enjoying this thread, and everyone's comments and perspective. It's conversations such as we are having here that get newcomers attracted to the hobby of Amateur Radio.

But . . . two comments . . .

1> CB radio is NOT ham radio. It certainly has its uses, but it isn't even close to providing the reliability and versatility as Amateur Radio. Many current hams started with CB radio and then moved up.

2> If you want, you CAN spend $3000, or $10,000 on ham radio equipment for your shack. But you don't HAVE to spend that much. For $500-$1000 you can purchase older vintage solid state equipment and construct your own wire dipole antenna. Don't let equipment costs deter you from getting into the hobby. Join a local AR club; someone there would probably be glad to loan you a rig until you can afford your own.

Ham Radio is a wonderful hobby! It can provide unending hours of enjoyment, plus it has practical communications options while on the road.

Try it . . . you'll like it!

Just my opinion . . .

 

[tx2sturgis]

  therefore I have a ham radio no license yet but will get one before I transmit.

What radio do you have?

In the ham hobby, we tend to separate our radios into two broad categories:

Local, mainly VHF/UHF stuff, and then we have radios we use for worldwide comms, the HF radios.

These are not hard dividing lines tho, since VHF UHF bands can be used for worldwide comms thru internet linked repeaters, weak signal work, and tropospheric ducting, sporadic E, satellite and even moonbounce work, and the HF radios are capable of local 'groundwave' contacts.

But in general: VHF and UHF for local, and HF for global communications.

Scott and Putts asked about the all-in-one radios and those tend to be in the $1000 to $3000 range, more or less, when bought new. But there are certainly less expensive routes to take as a beginner in the hobby.

So for about $50 to $150 you can get a nice VHF radio handheld or mobile, with antenna, and get started. It would only take you about a week or so to study online and then take a test, and poof!

Instant Ham Radio operator!

I mean, what else ya gonna do out there?

 

[highdesertranger]

I have a Kenwood TM-V71A. I bought it last year when Kenwood was having a instant rebate. highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

I have a Kenwood TM-V71A.  I bought it last year when Kenwood was having a instant rebate.  highdesertranger

I have one of those too...used it for about 5 years in the semis. That's around a half million miles and about 15,000 hours of use...give or take.

I wore out a mic, and replaced it, but other than that it is a good solid radio.

Lots of nice features. It can easily be modded to allow transmitting out of band, such as MURS, business frequencies, and GMRS channels...if that interests you.

Disclaimer: This is for emergencies!  (If I don't type this disclaimer the other hams on board with us will ream me a new one!)

 

[tx2sturgis]

Speaking of HF, how many of you guys listen to WTWW, 5.085?

Evenings, around 20:00 Central Time, they do a ham oriented music/talk format.

I catch the broadcasts occasionally. Kinda fun.

http://wtww.us/

 

[Scott7022]

Thanks for the info. I get that this is a hobby loved by many. So my "interest" or written lack of is not a slight on those that do. I didn't mean to give that impression.
I don't need a prepper version in a faraday cage. If that day comes my rig (currently being built) is a faraday cage. Sensitive film and audio gear love to add crap to final video footage edits. Besides an E1, or E2 event would be on the LOW end of the scale from my understanding!

I just need a radio that will pick up all the channels available and not scrambled on VHF/UHF, CB, and act as a bit of a trunk scanner for close by emergency services. Listen only until I write the test to transmit. What antennas work best and where good placement on a pickup truck with a fiberglass shell, no ground plane, no room, too much solar and I don't need the shadow. I've looked at Icom and a few others, but as pointed out equipment knowledge is difficult to attain. I can't be knowledgeable about everything. Hence my posts on Lithium. Battle Born Batteries. If people want to know why or more then I'll answer. But if you want Easy Breezy Cover Squirill that battery. If you have specific applications like group 31 won't fit, then Lithtronics and we can have that conversation.

 

[SoulRaven]

I purchased one of those BaoFeng UV-5R handheld radios , got my license (tech) and haven't used it once yet.  

Maybe at the RTR a few of the ham radio enthusiasts could get together and someone could show me and a few others some beginning info.  I know what the "classes" at the RTR can get like, so I'm suggesting something very small .  I would appreciate it very much.  

If not, I know there's stuff on the internet that is for total newbies.  I also badly need to review the stufy guide that I used to pass the test!  
I've just had a lot of other stuff going on. 

Thanks,

Pat