Legalities of residency

tav-2020 · Sep 28, 2017

I am still gathering info, making my plans. In reading through posts about receiving snail mail and vehicle registrations, etc. it seems like an either or: Maintain a physical residence or chuck it all and use SD (or other) state to be legal.
My Q: Is it legal to own a property, rent it out, but still "claim" it as your home/residency for insurance/registration needs?
Q2: If yes, have any of you successfully done this or something similar? I am guessing that you COULD fenagle this if family were involved in the renting, etc, but curious about how others may have creatively approached this.

lenny flank · Sep 28, 2017

The Real ID Act has complicated all of this. Basically, you need to have a physical residency to get an ID. I suspect that the federales will eventually crack down on all the various ways that people are now using to get around this, and it will soon become simply impossible to get an ID without an actual street address.

tav-2020 · Sep 28, 2017

lenny flank said:
The Real ID Act has complicated all of this. Basically, you need to have a physical residency to get an ID. I suspect that the federales will eventually crack down on all the various ways that people are now using to get around this, and it will soon become simply impossible to get an ID without an actual street address.

yes, but if you own a property with a dwelling on it but rent it out could you USE that address? the more I think about it, probably not, legally, but was curious.

Minivanmotoman · Sep 28, 2017

Or in other words, the legalities of a physical address when you don't actually live there. Hmmmmmm.
Potential implications and situations? Prove it.

tav-2020 · Sep 28, 2017

Minivanmotoman said:
Prove it.

deed to the house and a utility bill in your name? I suppose you could say you rent half the house, or have a roomate (the renter?) but probably too complicated.

mayble · Sep 28, 2017

It's still your domicile, just as if you were traveling abroad and sublet your apartment.

JustACarSoFar · Sep 28, 2017

When people move into a new state or city and need say... certain county assistance... they often are asked for proof of residence
and accept any utility bill in your name. If you still receive something to that effect, even if it's forwarded to you by a
mail service because you're traveling, my guess is you'd be fine.

deadwood · Sep 28, 2017

What about people that don't own any property? This is one of the reasons I chose South Dakota as my domicile. I read of cases where people owned property in New York but claimed a state like Florida which has no state income tax. In some cases NY was able to go after them for unpaid taxes because they claimed that they were technically still residents of NY because they owned property there.

I'm sure every situation is different and hopefully they are looked at on an individual basis. But I imagine some where obviously doing it just to avoid taxes which could cause a bigger problem.

As to the address situation. Because I claim SD as my state of residence but am also claiming full time RV living status I don't have a physical address there. I do use a mail service but I made sure to use one that gives a legal address. I didn't realize in the beginning that there was a difference between legal address and something like a P.O. Box. Apparently there is. I use a place called Americas Mailbox which is just outside of Rapid City. They have been great to use and I will probably be with them for a very long time.

The whole issue with claiming another state as your residence can get more complicated when you own property in a different state. Especially if you are still working and earning an income. The state where you work will want to get there share of taxes out of you. Every situation is a little different for everyone. You have to do a little research and figure out the best way to do it for your own situation.

tav-2020 · Sep 28, 2017

deadwood said:
The whole issue with claiming another state as your residence can get more complicated when you own property in a different state. Especially if you are still working and earning an income. The state where you work will want to get there share of taxes out of you. Every situation is a little different for everyone. You have to do a little research and figure out the best way to do it for your own situation.

thanks - I am probably overthinking it all! I did continue researching after original post and its all so subjective to each state's definition of residency.
And ultimately, if you claim a legal residence AND own it, and DO NOT claim RV as a residence, well, who's to say where you are at any given time (assuming you are not blogging your route everyday!)

akrvbob · Sep 28, 2017

You ARE way overthinking this thing! If you bring in any bill for the house no one will ever do anything to verify you do or do not live there. The DMV cant afford to hire people to do their job, they will NEVER do anything to verify who lives where. You bring in a legal document, it will never be questioned.

No one will ever knock on the door of that house and ask "Does tav 20-20 live here? Then who does?"

It's rarely ambiguous what you need. They list out exactly what documents you can bring in and if you own a house, you will have bills in your name for that house.

user 15722 · Sep 29, 2017

"No one will ever"

Sigh...

wheels

mr_elijah_gardner · Sep 29, 2017

When I first moved to KY and needed to get my DL updated I ran into an issue. The place I moved to was a cash deal apartment with no paperwork and free utilities. So I could not show the county clerk any approved proof of residency.

Went home made a lease, printed it and went back. Ok this works here is your new drivers license.

I do not approve/recommend false documents but nothing ever came from it and was stupid govt that made me make something. I've never had to prove anything updating my address since.

I think when I do get out on the road in the next few years. I plan to use a UPS box or similar mail forwarding service. Use that address for ID and be just fine.

tav-2020 · Sep 29, 2017

Thanks to all for your insights!
Re: the overthinking - have always tried to be an honest person, going by the rules...so just trying to cross my t's and dot my i's!

John61CT · Sep 29, 2017

Bureaucrats like easy lives. You find out what documents they need, put down on the forms the info that is closest to reality you can manage, ensure it all makes sense, hangs together like a normal person's would, pay the fee, stamp stamp, file file and Bob's your uncle no worries,

Start getting all exceptional, trying to make their "rules" make sense, fit your special edge case, you're just buying yourself a world of pain.

user 37446 · Oct 17, 2017

I’d just add one perhaps obvious thing, try to keep all documents, from your “domicile” address, to your drivers license, vehicle registration, plates, auto insurance, banking, everything possible under a single address, it makes it appear more legit. Not that anyone is operating a motor vehicle with differing DL address to their registration but it happens. I sometimes get asked the question 2 or 3 different ways when I cross into Canada.

States have rules about updating, usually within 30 days or so.

In Az it’s 10: “Arizona law requires all driver license and identification card holders to report any change of address to MVD within 10 days.” Same with California, 10 days.

For Nevada it’s 30: “[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nevada law requires motorists to notify DMV of a change of address within 30 days of the move, including residents who are leaving the state permanently.”[/font]

jacqueg · Oct 18, 2017

mr_elijah_gardner said:
When I first moved to KY and needed to get my DL updated I ran into an issue. The place I moved to was a cash deal apartment with no paperwork and free utilities. So I could not show the county clerk any approved proof of residency.

Went home made a lease, printed it and went back. Ok this works here is your new drivers license.

I do not approve/recommend false documents but nothing ever came from it and was stupid govt that made me make something. I've never had to prove anything updating my address since.

I think when I do get out on the road in the next few years. I plan to use a UPS box or similar mail forwarding service. Use that address for ID and be just fine.

I'd check into this more closely, I'm not sure it will work. As others have noted, some states are still cool with it, but I wouldn't count on that situation continuing indefinitely.

The US gov - and probably everyone else - is well aware that nothing stops you from having more than one PO box. In one (hectic) period of my life, I had 3 PO boxes in two different states. A PO box is a mailing address, and it's obviously not where you physically reside.

In my current state, I couldn't get a driver's license with just my PO box, they demanded proof of a physical address. I was still signed up for Netflix DVDs then, so between a Netflix envelope and a copy of my lease, I was good. Even though my PO box address has often been more stable than my residence address - one of the reasons why I started using PO boxes in the first place.

I'd be more inclined to use a friend or relative's physical address, and then make sure to spend some time based at that address a couple times a year. And as ThisWorld noted, use that residence address for everything. Even find a doctor in that area to be your primary physician, and keep your money in a bank in that area. You might pay that friend or relative a modest rent ($30/month?), on a signed agreement, with receipts. Yes, anyone who cared would know you are pushing the envelope here, but if parking in their driveway for a week or two at a time is the most immobile you get, it would pass muster.

Then you could use any mail forwarding service as your mailing address.

Unfortunately, not having a fixed official address can make your life difficult. As many poor people know all too well.

deadwood · Oct 18, 2017

There is a difference between addresses. Some mail forwarding places have P.O. Boxes or something similar. Some have legal addresses. When I changed my domicile to SD I still needed a legal address. That was one of the reasons I went with Americas Mailbox. They give a legal address. So whenever I put my address in for anything I need to sign up for it will show up as a legal address. Which is quite different from a P.O. Box.

I don't have a physical address at all. So it was important for things like my banking, work you name it to have a real address. If you are looking at setting up a mail forwarding service to have an address then just make sure it will be recognized as a legal address. It will make a big difference.

I'm a legal resident of SD even though I spend almost no time there. It is the only address I use for anything I do. It keeps things simple. It is like having a physical address without the costs of owning property.

John61CT · Oct 18, 2017

Just to keep things clear, I propose let's use

A. mailing address

B. residential address

Even though you may not actually live at B, you are required by various bureaucracies to pretend that you do, so "physical" and "legal" may be used for that, but probably best to keep consistency.

Nemo · Oct 18, 2017

This world isn\ said:
I’d just add one perhaps obvious thing, try to keep all documents, from your “domicile” address, to your drivers license, vehicle registration, plates, auto insurance, banking, everything possible under a single address, it makes it appear more legit. Not that anyone is operating a motor vehicle with differing DL address to their registration but it happens. I sometimes get asked the question 2 or 3 different ways when I cross into Canada.

States have rules about updating, usually within 30 days or so.

In Az it’s 10: “Arizona law requires all driver license and identification card holders to report any change of address to MVD within 10 days.” Same with California, 10 days.

For Nevada it’s 30: “[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nevada law requires motorists to notify DMV of a change of address within 30 days of the move, including residents who are leaving the state permanently.”[/font]

As a small qualification on this.. yes, you must notify DMV of your change of address.. but, there is no requirement to actually have it changed on the physical license.. in fact theres an extra fee if you want to :

so its easy to have them different for years on end.

lenny flank · Oct 18, 2017

jacqueg said:
I'd check into this more closely, I'm not sure it will work. As others have noted, some states are still cool with it, but I wouldn't count on that situation continuing indefinitely.

Yep. The Real ID Act is intended specifically to stop people from doing what many of us do--use a maildrop as an address to get an ID. I expect that any loopholes anyone manages to find in it, will get quickly closed, and it will be simply impossible to get an ID without an actual verified street address.
So everyone oughtta have a Plan B.....

Legalities of residency

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