The Future of Van Life

[Dingfelder]

Imho, all good things must come to an end.
Enjoy the benefit now.

I think that's the essential take-away.  If you believe, say, that there are still ten good years left to nomad or RV/Van/etc. the way you like it, then living that way for ten years instead of some other way you don't like is still a boon.  Enjoy it while you still can and be glad you didn't miss out.

And keep emotional as well as financial reserves to draw on in case things get rough.  Look to the future and try to be prepared both ways.

 

[RoamerRV428]

won't change any time soon but tighter and tighter control is coming over the general population. 'They' must keep us in line. Simple as that.

So yea down the road, good 25-30 yrs or so it will be a different world again with tighter laws and enforcement.


When we hit the road full time I am not worried I can't fly under the radar and keep to ourselves thru our lifetime. I feel secure all will go as planned with the way of life we choose.

Now my kid's kids will have it way different I am sure for their future but I just have today to live for and can't worry about 30 yrs from now

 

[Moxadox]

And now this...http://www.govtech.com/fs/Face-Detecting-Cameras-Sought-in-San-Franciscos-SF-Go-Traffic-Improvement-Program.html

Facial recognition tech will soon be infecting, well, everything. Security cameras are a double edged sword, IMO...on one hand, they help solve murders and muggings. On the other, they make it difficult to live an anonymous life. Face recognition is going to completely change how we live. China already has it. Apparently they're real serious about prosecuting jaywalkers using face recognition. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/03/28...en-soon-to-be-punished-via-text-messages.html

Why is this important for us? Let's say (hypothetically) a certain Walmart gets serious about no overnighting, but I'm exhausted and slip my car (that I'm sleeping in) into a row of other shoppers. In the morning I saunter in to pick up a muffin, passing by one of their cameras. I come out (having washed up in the rest room), get in my car and leave before 7 a.m., but before long my phone buzzes...I've been dinged for a ticket, and my mug is now in the database of illegal Walmart sleepers.

I think the good old days are truly gone. We need another strategy, but I can't think of any.

The Dire Wolfess

 

[GraceinMotion]

I may start wearing a niqab.

 

[Moxadox]

I may start wearing a niqab.

Believe me, I have also thought of that.

The Dire Wolfess

 

[RoamerRV428]

I may start wearing a niqab.

too funny!! 

 

[Jack]

I think the good old days are truly gone.  We need another strategy, but I can't think of any.

My thoughts, and my point, exactly.  Although the facial recognition software has been developed (and advancing) for some time now, it's more about the intentions than the capability.  And the intentions have been around longer than the capabilities.  

We live in a world that's all about power and control; even more so than money.  Money is just a tool for power and control.  That's why the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

Van life will change.  I have no doubts.  Although I don't know when that will happen, or whether it will be gradually or quickly, I do believe it will be much sooner than later.  Why?  Take a look at all the ways our world has changed overnight in the last ten years.  I'd explain, but that gets into politics.  But I mention it because politics is always involved when it comes to power and control.

Me <---  Still not nervous or scared.  I just see the writing on the wall.

 

[QinReno]

I was reading about the homeless situation in Redmond OR. They are trying to deal with the situation, mainly involving relocation. There were up to 400 people living there, lots of crime, and the cops were being called out there every day. Expected cleanup costs will be $200,000. I would avoid such areas myself.
- https://www.bendsource.com/bend/redmond-homeless-camp-closing/Content?oid=6200860

 

[QinReno]

We live in a world that's all about power and control; even more so than money.  Money is just a tool for power and control.  That's why the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
.........
Me <---  Still not nervous or scared.  I just see the writing on the wall.

The problems will **always** be far worse in the cities, simply because that's where all the people live. 4000 or 10,000 cops (whatever) in NYC or LA, and 3 rangers covers 50,000 acres in the forests. In fact, the NF sites actually tell you how to be a dispersed camper, without making a total PITA out of yourself.
- https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/inyo/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=20228&actid=34

 

[Jack]

The problems will **always** be far worse in the cities, simply because that's where all the people live. 4000 or 10,000 cops (whatever) in NYC or LA, and 3 rangers covers 50,000 acres in the forests. In fact, the NF sites actually tell you how to be a dispersed camper, without making a total PITA out of yourself.
- https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/inyo/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=20228&actid=34

But it's in the rural/country areas where more freedom lies, and where the food is grown, and both of those things will be sought to be controlled even more strictly at some point than they are now.  Cities are limited areas with a concentration of many people.  That makes cities much easier to control than open rural areas, even if cities do have a lot more problems more frequently.  At the end of the day, I just see the hands of power and control reaching everywhere eventually.  It won't stop us from living the van life but hopefully it will at least get some folks thinking a little more about how the future of van life could be affected, giving them time to make any changes/preparations that they feel could be useful.

That was an interesting article, thanks.  I haven't looked into the specifics yet, since I'm not ready to hit the road yet.  But it did remind me of questions I've had.  For example, 1)  How do you know when you can and cannot light a campfire?  (In general, not during obvious fire risk situations.)  And 2) How do you know when and where you can drive off-road and into more natural settings?  (Deserts, woods, prairies, etc.,)

 

[travelaround]

questions I've had.  For example, 1)  How do you know when you can and cannot light a campfire?  (In general, not during obvious fire risk situations.)  And 2) How do you know when and where you can drive off-road and into more natural settings?  (Deserts, woods, prairies, etc.,)

Speaking from my experience of living in the middle of the Klamath National Forest (Northern California) for 13 years - (1) ask at the forest service office about any current fire restrictions. (2) if there's no green gate closing the road, and no "no trespassing" sign, and doesn't resemble a driveway to a private home, it is probably safe to explore.

 

[Blanch]

......

That was an interesting article, thanks.  I haven't looked into the specifics yet, since I'm not ready to hit the road yet.  But it did remind me of questions I've had.  For example, 1)  How do you know when you can and cannot light a campfire?  (In general, not during obvious fire risk situations.)  And 2) How do you know when and where you can drive off-road and into more natural settings?  (Deserts, woods, prairies, etc.,)

In many forests you are required to have a fire permit. The local forest or BLM office tells you the rules for their specific area. You either drop by the office, or call, or check the local areas web page. Each area has different rules. You have to ask.

Where I am currently camped they put up a sign with a campfire, BBQ and enclosed stove. A line will be across all that isn’t allowed. Easy to understand if you know to look for the sign.

But, as I ALWAYS tell folks, check in with the local office where you are staying. You are responsible for finding out the rules and following them.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Smitty716]

There are enough empty homes in America that they could give every homeless person a house and have some leftover over

 

[QinReno]

There are enough empty homes in America that they could give every homeless person a house and have some leftover over

Yeah, some people have been asking about buying affordable places, and I've been saying go to the small towns since so many are moving to the cities anymore. You'll also notice that the article on the homeless mentions a local group trying to come up with enough funds to buy property the homeless there can be relocated to.

 

[Moxadox]

Jack, the first thing I do when I arrive at a new location is to visit the Ranger District Office. There, I inquire about any fire restrictions (including prescribed burns planned) and pick up the Motor Vehicle Use Map (MVUM) for that region. The MVUM tells you where you can drive in your vehicle, which roads are OK for passenger vehicles, which are 4WD, which are OHV, and they have all of the legal dispersed campsites marked. Stopping by and introducing myself also reassures the rangers that I am an OK person, and has lead to some really pleasant interactions with rangers who stop by my camp to chat. In turn, I get to pick their brain about everything from local history to plants and animals, which is after all what rangers love to share. I also check inciweb.com frequently during fire season (that's the real-time updated forest fire site). It's always a good idea to check the USFS or USDA (BLM) sites before moving to a new area, to make sure it's open and no concerns.

To ID campsites, use your MVUM to identify possibilities. Then locate the approximate place on Google Maps and when you're pretty sure you have the area you want, switch to Google Earth and zoom in. Easy-peasy!

The Dire Wolfess

 

[IGBT]

There are enough empty homes in America that they could give every homeless person a house and have some leftover over

Then we would still have homeless problems and a bunch of empty homes that now have no copper plumbing or wires.

 

[B and C]

And who would be giving away my second home?

 

[Almost There]

But it did remind me of questions I've had.  For example, 1)  How do you know when you can and cannot light a campfire?  (In general, not during obvious fire risk situations.)  And 2) How do you know when and where you can drive off-road and into more natural settings?  (Deserts, woods, prairies, etc.,)

One learns those things, and fairly easily if you're actually on the road and out in those surroundings. Of course some people learn more easily than others..   Those that don't learn which roads to drive off on to become stuck.... and/or get a visit from a ranger when you light a fire during a ban.

Fires - roadside signs warning of the fire danger. Signs at the entrances to National Forests etc notifying you of fire bans. Local news stations etc. And above and beyond all else...common sense.

Driving - MVUM maps, signage, ranger stations, talking to the rangers etc. Following road tracks once you learn not to follow the narrow ones caused by ATVs...

It's like anything else you've learned in life, one learns it out of necessity. Necessity only happens when you're actually doing it. You can't learn to ride a bicycle sitting on the sofa!

 

[QinReno]

One learns those things, and fairly easily if you're actually on the road and out in those surroundings. Of course some people learn more easily than others..   Those that don't learn which roads to drive off on to become stuck.... and/or get a visit from a ranger when you light a fire during a ban.

+1. Real life learning is always more effective than book learning, and/or being told by others. Common sense is always #1.

 

[Moxadox]

+1, learning to live on the road off the grid begins with getting behind the wheel and leaving the S&B behind in the mirrors. It all comes together.

The Dire Wolfess