Social security

[Gr8ful]

I was in Rotary for many years. A local club hosted a group of Russian farmers. The local Rotary club sent a group of local farmers to the USSR to help the Russian farmers & they showed them how to double their hog production. Their response? They said they wouldn't change anything because they'd not make any more if they increased production. This has nothing to do with SS just my only interactions with Russian people so delete it if you wish

 

[Carla618]

Government of both China and Russia (and Iran) work diligently to make world safer for autocracies. They abuse rule-based system of global trade and make schenigans to hurt democracies. If they could, they WOULD destroy liberal democracies. The only thing stopping them is that their economies are less productive. I understand russian, and can follow their propaganda. It is very sneaky and creative. They use people who want to help, and subvert them. They study the disagreements we have in USA and are trying hard to make the differences harder. And they invest a lot of money in it. Invest in public intellectuals, they call them "useful idiots". And are ready to work for DECADES on it, and spend millions. Some stuff, you have no idea that it was injected to USA culture is russian propaganda, like the term "politically correct".

The same could be said for the U.S. So there's that.

 

[mpruet]

I’m totally in favor of removing the cap on the payroll tax although during my working years, I enjoyed the income boost I got in September when I had reached the cap. ;-)

I don’t like the idea of means testing because it’d be kinda hard to implement, and would tend to cause offshoring of assets, which would be bad for the overall economy. Additionally, I’m concerned that it would be rife of corruption. Also the folks who are currently putting more into SS are already being penalized because their ROI is less than the person putting in less.

We’re already increasing the full retirement age, and I suspect that will continue. One thing which could be done is to raise the ‘early retirement age’ significantly, or place some form of impaired health condition requirement of folks speaking to start SS early.

Fundamentally the outflow of SS money can not exceed the inflow (or growth) over a long period. We’re currently in the middle of the baby boomers entering into SS collection, which has caused a decrease in the inflow as well as an increase in the outflow. By the mid 2030s, many of the baby boomers will pass, so the system should rebalance somewhat. However there is still a hidden ‘outflow’ other than payouts to people collecting SS.

Currently the reserve cash (so called SS fund) is only invested in government debt. These are basically in the form of short term bonds. In effect the government is borrowing money from the SS fund in the form of these bonds.

The government will pay back the money that it borrowed, but the interest on those bonds is usually less than the inflation rate. That means that the value of the fund decreases by the difference between the interest and inflation rate. I’ve suggested in the past that the SS fund be invested in some items which are considered low risk, but have a higher return than the inflation rate. While that met with negative response in this group, I still feel that it would be a wise move to increase the value of the SS fund over the inflation rate.

 

[RonDean]

I think we can and should separate the people of another country and the government and/or oligarchy that controls them (and sometimes - us.) There are forces in the world that are more concerned with making the world better for the elite - of which they are part. Nor is our country immune to that. But, for now, most democracies have some built-in guard rails to protect the rest of us.

IMO, Russia, China, and some other countries are currently governed by people and systems that would be happy if the more democratic countries became the same as theirs. They have and are interfering in the politics and economies of other countries - including ours.

We are ALREADY at war with them. Happily not in a hot war, but certainly in an information and digital war. Just this last week US officials delivered a warning that Chinese hackers are targeting infrastructure. WASHINGTON, Jan 31 (Reuters) - Hackers linked to the Chinese government are targeting critical U.S. infrastructure, preparing to cause "real-world harm" to Americans, FBI Director Christopher Wray told a congressional committee on Wednesday. Russia has morphed and modernized its information warfare into what Rand describes as "the contemporary Russian model for propaganda as “the firehose of falsehood” Nor are they the only ones to employ this strategy.

*Note: sorry about this digression from talking about SS, but some earlier posts made me want to address this.

 

[wanderlust]

The same could be said for the U.S. So there's that.

You are missing one very important detail.

In democracy like USA or EU, you CAN disagree with your government, or talk about how we should or should not help other people to build democracy (and many of those countries welcome the help). You have rights and liberties.

In autocracy, if you say something your government does not approve, you likely get punished, killed, you have no rights except praise the leader. People KNOW that thinking is dangerous, and self-censor what they say, even to their own children, for safety reasons. You are lucky that you have no idea what it is to live in such system, so you can pretend they are equivalent.

Part of Russian propaganda is to pretend there is no difference between the democracy (with liberties etc) and autocracy. And some people in USA and Europe, like you, are believing this propaganda. They are caught in the web of lies and cannot find the way out.

I just find it sad that people don't make mental effort to see the difference, but of course in democracy, unlike autocracy, you have the right to have different and even wrong opinion.

I hope that in my travels I can meet you in person and explain you the propaganda you believe, because this is not a proper forum for such debates, and I will not continue this debate here. Howgh!

 

[Carla618]

You are missing one very important detail.

In democracy like USA or EU, you CAN disagree with your government, or talk about how we should or should not help other people to build democracy (and many of those countries welcome the help). You have rights and liberties.

In autocracy, if you say something your government does not approve, you likely get punished, killed, you have no rights except praise the leader. People KNOW that thinking is dangerous, and self-censor what they say, even to their own children, for safety reasons. You are lucky that you have no idea what it is to live in such system, so you can pretend they are equivalent.

Part of Russian propaganda is to pretend there is no difference between the democracy (with liberties etc) and autocracy. And some people in USA and Europe, like you, are believing this propaganda. They are caught in the web of lies and cannot find the way out.

I just find it sad that people don't make mental effort to see the difference, but of course in democracy, unlike autocracy, you have the right to have different and even wrong opinion.

I hope that in my travels I can meet you in person and explain you the propaganda you believe, because this is not a proper forum for such debates, and I will not continue this debate here. Howgh!

Oh, we can say plenty, but it will have no impact on how our officials vote. They ignore what we want.

Can't imagine any country being better at delivering propaganda than the U.S.

 

[wanderlust]

Oh, we can say plenty, but it will have no impact on how our officials vote. They ignore what we want.

Can't imagine any country being better at delivering propaganda than the U.S.

So you obviously are not familiar how effective the russian propaganda is.

To prove my point: "we can say plenty, but it will have no impact on how our officials vote. They ignore what we want." -- IS EXACTLY the russian propaganda Worked on you like a charm

What you say DOES have impact, even if not as obvious as you would like, because one representative in the Congress represents about 700K people, and in the Senate it is usually even more, depending on which state.

 

[RonDean]

Can't imagine any country being better at delivering propaganda than the U.S.

I can easily visualize it. Because the USA is NOT better at everything - as we have so often been told. Especially in our more globally connected world. I would not trade our republic/democracy for any authoritarian government. But I will also recognize that we need to be honest about the "other" side's capabilities. Especially when there are people on our side who knowingly or unknowingly are willing to help them.

Question: When a thread wanders how hard should we try to steer it back to the original topic?

 

[Carla618]

No really, they don't listen to us.

https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba/

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/18/5624310/martin-gilens-testing-theories-of-american-politics-explained

https://www.upworthy.com/20-years-of-data-reveals-that-congress-doesnt-care-what-you-think

 

[Carla618]

 

[Happy Camper]

The great thing is that we have the freedom to think what we want. And we have the opportunity to leave this country for another we might think is better. There are a lot of lovely countries in this world. But I'm thankful I was born in this one.

We aren't perfect by any means. But overall. We try. And keep trying.

I mean, I could be a very rich guy from another country. Rich enough to buy anything I want in this world. But I'd have a high likelihood of falling out of a window because my words are clumsy. Amazing how many open windows get left open next to slippery tile floors with banana peels laying about.

Or I could be a very successful and respected diplomat. And find that I need the help of several large men to stand up and moonwalk backwards out of a large assembly of my peers on television. Then have my job filled by another in moments while I'm barely seen before I perish of obviously natural causes.

Or I can just be myself, and say what I want to whom I want. And fail or succeed on my own terms. And get older and collect social security. Whether it's enough or not.

 

[wanderlust]

Carla, it makes little sense to continue this debate, but is funny that literally in the video you linked is a link to solution how to fix the corruption by acting within our democratic laws, which is EXACTLY what you cannot do in russia.



You can use your brain and think, or you can believe any clickbait headline - your choice

 

[RonDean]

Carla, THIS is a good video to post. For anyone who wants to know what it's about before spending time with it, the video shows that the laws that ARE passed are much more likely to have the support of political donors than the rest of us. I have referenced this dynamic many times in the past. Nor will it surprise most of us. I still recommend watching the video.

 

[Happy Camper]

There's this saying that I heard of in the hush hush corners of the world. Super secret sauce stuff really. Be careful who you share this with, as it might cause "issues" with "them". It's going to blow your mind. Just act normal when you read it. No need to draw attention to yourself just in case.










Follow the money.

 

[Carla618]

The great thing is that we have the freedom to think what we want. And we have the opportunity to leave this country for another we might think is better. There are a lot of lovely countries in this world. But I'm thankful I was born in this one.

We aren't perfect by any means. But overall. We try. And keep trying.

I mean, I could be a very rich guy from another country. Rich enough to buy anything I want in this world. But I'd have a high likelihood of falling out of a window because my words are clumsy. Amazing how many open windows get left open next to slippery tile floors with banana peels laying about.

Or I could be a very successful and respected diplomat. And find that I need the help of several large men to stand up and moonwalk backwards out of a large assembly of my peers on television. Then have my job filled by another in moments while I'm barely seen before I perish of obviously natural causes.

Or I can just be myself, and say what I want to whom I want. And fail or succeed on my own terms. And get older and collect social security. Whether it's enough or not.

Oh for goodness sakes. I never said anything about leaving the country. Nor not loving this country.

Look where the U.S. ranks on the Freedom Index put out by the Cato Institute, if you think we are the only free country. You may be surprised.

 

[Gr8ful]

The U.S.A. is NOT a Democracy! Here's a 3 min you tube that explains it!
Why the U S is a constitutional republic - not a democracy

 

[Morgana]

It's gonna take more than a three-minute YouTube to explain that. People debate back and forth on this all the time, and "not a democracy" doesn't necessarily mean what it sounds like.

 

[Gr8ful]

It's how our founding fathers set it up & what they called it. Haven't you read the constitution & bill of rights?

Where is republic mentioned in the Constitution?
Article IV Relationships Between the States
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.

What is constitutional republic in simple words?
A constitutional republic is a state where the chief executive and representatives are elected, and the rules are set down in a written constitution.

 

[Morgana]

Nothing in that wording says we're not a democracy.
People who have read the constitution take both sides in this argument.

 

[RonDean]

The U.S.A. is NOT a Democracy! Here's a 3 min you tube that explains it!
Why the U S is a constitutional republic - not a democracy

Carla, You have said this before and I have corrected you before.

According to the Oxford Dictionary... A Democracy is a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

I think that describes us pretty well. We are ALSO a Republic because we elect representatives. If you want to go further, we could say Constitutional Republic.

But it is all playing a game of semantics. Use whatever term you want, and I wouldn't argue it is wrong. But neither are those of us that say "democracy."