Shotgun in a Van?

[GrayWhale]

Wow.

If someone wants to kill ya, and you don't know it, odds are they just might succeed.
I figured we were talking about the average thug.

If my shotgun doesn't shoot, or if  a guy comes barging through an open door, well that's what the sidearm is for!

I'm just giving you other possibilities to what seemed to be, your absolute guaranteed notion that the racking sound of your shotgun would scare just anyone. I mean, I've been in a few  confrontations where just lifting up my shirt to show that I was packing, ended the confrontation. But I wouldn't claim that it's the best way to go.

Just like open carry vs. concealed carry. Sometimes 1 would work, other times the other or both. I'm not saying that you making the racking sound wouldn't work, but if I did that; then the few seconds that I may have gotten the thug to be confused/having a change of heart, I'd use it to get the hell out of Dodge. Because now the thug(s) knows that I'm armed and if he's still going forward with his plans, he's undoubtedly armed himself.

 

[bLEEp]

Making the decision own a firearm comes with heavy responsibilities and shouldn't be taken lightly. Before you do anything learn the laws where you abide and where you expect to travel. If you obtain a firearm, get professional training with the piece you own. Your brother in law may not be the best choice. For women, I suggest you don't ask relatives for help, rather go to a professional instructor. A few hours of instruction will cover all the bases and are inexpensive.

Why are the ladies different than the gentleman in this scenario? No trolling, I am serious as my sister was trained by my family, went through firearms safety classes and all, I'd rather have her next to me with a firearm than most men.
I was taught to handle firearms from the age of three years old and feel I am better qualified to train a woman I know personally than some person she's never met as I know ther personality and strengths as well as weaknesses of that individual on a much more personal level.
Seriously, just curious.
As for our bus there will be a couple long rifles as well as a handgun and a compound bow and arrow as I am a hunter of small game and the short barrel, saddle mount 30-30 is very mobile and will stop just about anything with a couple well placed rounds in an emergency.
The other long rifle is indeed a .22 semi auto scopes in mostly for survival situations. They will always be locked in a special spot and never loaded. The side arm is my wife's and clips and ammo will be kept separate.
Interesting topic for sure as I have often thought of this as well hence the special locked box for the long arms and separate storage of mags and ammo.
Be well all
bLEEp

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Women and men don't always think exactly the same way, and thus they don't learn the same way.  For any of the gals reading this, I can't recommend Vicki Farnam's books, Women Learning To Shoot and Teaching Women To Shoot, A Law Enforcement Instructor's Guide highly enough.

I've met Vicki while taking training with her husband, John Farnam of Defense Training International.  John is one of the premier instructors in the country.  Ex-Marine Infantry Officer, Vietnam; Ex-Swat Cop, etc.  In addition to serving as one of John's assistant instructors, she also teaches Women's Only courses.

I gifted these books to my niece when she expressed an interest in becoming a cop after graduating college.

https://www.amazon.com/Women-Learni...8&qid=1488559594&sr=8-1&keywords=vicki+farnam

https://www.amazon.com/Teaching-Wom...8&qid=1488559517&sr=8-4&keywords=vicki+farnam

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Someone earlier raised an interesting point (sorry, I don't remember whom) that I have been ruminating about for a while:
 - Could a clever lawyer convince a jury that the racking of a shotgun is premeditation?
 - Could an enterprising district attorney charge/convict you with brandishing a weapon by the act of 'racking'?
Of course the flippant answer is 'sure, a good attorney can convict a ham sandwich', but how much of a risk is this and are there better strategies?

From the self defense instruction I have received telling someone you have a gun is considered an escalation of the situation with difficult legal issues whether anything further happens or not.  It seems that in our legal system lawful ≠ logical and reasonable.  I don't have a good answer.   I have always thought that the racking of a 12 gauge is a good deterrent, but I am rethinking the issue.

 -- Spiff

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

My friend is a cop, he actually killed someone in the line of duty in 2011. He said in Police academy the number one thing that they drilled into their heads was that "Assuming gets you killed" So you can never assume racking a round in a shotgun will scare someone off. It's why cops become villians when they use force. It's easy to say after the incident that the person was mentally ill, or non violent, or wasn't really going to hit them with their car. But in the present when it's happening the police don't have the luxury of "assumption"

The call he went on and killed the guy was a domestic disturbance, one of the most dangerous, from the time he pulled up to the house and called it in that he arrived til his next call saying he shot someone and needed an ambulance was 19 seconds. 12 of those seconds were probably spent going from the car to the front door, which left him about 7 seconds to make a decision. (the guy came right at him with a butcher knife) Had one not been in the chamber he'd most certainly have been injured or killed. I always keep one in the chamber, in many if not most instances there is no time to put the round in. The few seconds you're lucky enough to get will be needed to pull, point, and shoot

 

[hepcat]

Reading threads like this is interesting. There is a very definite distinction in tactical thinking between those who have been in harm's way vs. those who fantasize about it.

 

[hepcat]

As for the given scenario...  it's dark/night, I'm in my van with my shotgun, the perp is outside coming in with a handgun and I rack the shotgun....  he has an obscure target with a  single bullet,  I have a definite target spot with a spray... hmmmmm   My main concern will be how much of the van do I want to mess up

Perhaps it would be wise for you to actually take your shotgun out to your van and see how much room you have to maneuver with it.  While you're there, take a firecracker with you, light it, and let it go off in the van and see how much you can hear and see after that and how long it takes for your hearing and night vision to return.  And that's just a firecracker.  Lighting a 12 gauge off in a vehicle would be a hundred times worse.

I do carry an AR-15 M4 with an EOTech sight and enough magazines to make a difference, but you're not going to use it OR a shotgun on a lone assailant in the middle of a parking lot, especially if you're attacked at close-quarters IN your van.  You'll have neither the time nor the forwarning to deploy it.

Long guns are NOT for close quarters fighting and trying to deploy one instead of dealing with the threat will likely get you killed.  Frankly, handguns aren't either (although I always have one.)   

INTJohn had the best answer:

Frankly if I was in a vehicle the size of a van; or say when I'm auxiliary camped in my burb or pik up I would have no qualms whatsoever about going for one of my fighting knives if the attacker is already within close proximity to me.

If I see them first on approach then I'm probably going for a gun but if they're already at close proximity a knife is in many cases more advantageous then any firearm. IF you know how to fight with a knife; which I grant you hardly anyone does (but then few people know how to defend themselves witha firearm either) - and I mean fight not fend - at close quarters a knife is as devastating as any bullet. There are many places where a person can be cut with a purpose built fighting knife and they will lose consciousness in seconds........

I spent years in combat, 2 wars and frankly I've killed 11 men in my life in combat that I know of and 2 of them were with a knife.........

A knife is a forgotten weapon but here again I'm talking about a purpose built fighting knife not a hunting knife, or a kitchen knife or a bayonet or even a general purpose combat survival knife. That blade will become part of you - I've had mine since 1972.

.........and the title to this thread - we're not playing Jeopardy; why is it phrased in the form of a question? It should be a statement.

INTJohn

 

[DrJean]

Just won't let the dog have the bone eh?   ROFL   Ok.  Ease back soldiers, we're not your enemy.

Fantasize about it?  That could be considered a harsh rush to judgment, assumption.  After Hurricane Andrew the National Guard came through picking up the bodies, including the looters who had been shot, no questions asked.  BTW the National Guard were carrying weapons WITHOUT ANY AMMO.  Some protection eh?



I'm already considered deaf lol.  But the guy won't be even 3 feet away from me if he's in the van doorway, by the time I pull the shotgun...and I'm not posting where I'm storing it!  But who's to say I'm not going out the back door and coming around to greet him?

but hey, that's ok...  forget the shotgun, I'll just pull the service revolver and be done with the whole thing... I am handicapped and cannot do hand to hand, though I still have the purple belt in a martial art.  Or just maybe put up some zombie safezone flying knives for the illegal entrance...  goodness.    I'm outta here, safe and sound.

I'm sorry you had to kill anyone....

 

[FastEddie313]

let it go off in the van and see how much you can hear and see after that and how long it takes for your hearing and night vision to return.  

Bad dude is going to be just as def and blind as you and likely a lot more dead..

National Guard were carrying weapons WITHOUT ANY AMMO. 

Source?




Good thing you weren't sleeping in there..

 

[DrJean]

My source? Visual. Homestead AFB community (off base).... we (about 5 of us) stood in amazement when we thought that's what we saw... and asked them too... no ammo.

The 10th Mt div handled the makeshift morgue until it was full... 1801 bodies in the original main one in CG. They trucked the rest out to other morgues via refrigerator trucks and US 27... about 5000 dead (but you won't see that in the MSM.) One group of migrants outside the southern prison were just plowed under. There's a law that any unidentified body has to be kept... so they dispensed.

Ok. Now I am done here. Still like the sound of the racking of a shotgun.....

 

[bullfrog]

I am a very sound sleeper. I've slept through all sorts of weather, parties in a helicopter but I sit strait up wide awake when some one outside my door chambers a 45, always amazed my room mates.

 

[ArtW]

I can sleep with Iron Maiden or def Leppard on the box
Touch the doorknob to my room (or vehicle) and I'm up instantly
My solution is simple, a Revolver or a Melee weapon, depending on proximity

 

[VanGrrl57]

"Fantasize about it?  That could be considered a harsh rush to judgment, assumption.  After Hurricane Andrew the National Guard came through picking up the bodies, including the looters who had been shot, no questions asked.  BTW the National Guard were carrying weapons WITHOUT ANY AMMO.  Some protection eh?"

Dr. Jean,

My husband, my kids, and I were living in Homestead, FL when Hurricane Andrew hit. Luckily, we were all fine because my brother insisted we all come to Orlando and stay with him before it hit. We also saw all the devastation, heartache, and pain first-hand, too, especially when we came back and found out our house was totally destroyed. We lost everything. We also saw things we wish we could UN-see, too, but of course, that's impossible. We decided to not buy or rebuild in Homestead, either. We moved to Pinecastle, FL which is basically like a suburb of Orlando. LOL!

My father taught me a bit about firearms; enough to make me realize that one doesn't play with them. As an older adult, I took a firearms safety course as well. If anyone is stupid enough to come to my door---be it a sticks and bricks or my van---looking for trouble, well, I won't think twice about sending them to Hell in a handbag (Sorry! Old Southern expression---LOL!).


VanGrrl57

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I won't think twice about sending them to Hell in a handbag (Sorry! Old Southern expression---LOL!).

I believe the phrase was originally "Hell in a HandCART", handcart being another word for a pushcart.  Point is, a handcart is actually physically large enough that you could use it to carry bodies.  How you plan to fit a body into your handbag is a mystery to me.

 

[VanGrrl57]

I believe the phrase was originally "Hell in a HandCART", handcart being another word for a pushcart.  Point is, a handcart is actually physically large enough that you could use it to carry bodies.  How you plan to fit a body into your handbag is a mystery to me.

Hello John.

Yes, I am quite aware the original phrase was "Hell in a handcart." However, I had a grandmother who always said "Hell in a handbag," in reference to the handgun she used to carry in her purse. I guess I should have expounded on that better than what I did. My brothers and I used to crack up laughing whenever she said it, too. So did Mom and Dad, especially Dad since it was his Irish-born mother, Siobhan O'Farrell. She was Grandma Daisy to us grandkids since daisies were her favorite flower. I can picture her now, saying: "Don't make me send you to Hell in a handbag" whenever she was ticked off at someone (not family) who messed with her in some way.

As you can see, I come from a family that is definitely pro-gun. LOL! To each his/her own, though.

Have a nice day!

VanGrrl57

 

[Canine]

I always thought it was"Hell in a handbasket"Vic has a t shirt that says"Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?"When she hit 65,I had a t shirt made for her that said"This package measured by weight,not volume.Some settling of contents may have occurred."

 

[grandpacamper]

Bought a .22 yesterday, this morning bought a scabbard. While assembling the rifle, I was attempting to install the scope. It was simple, two screws. Wondered why you would even need a scope on a .22? Never had one as a youth, used open sights to qualify 'expert' during boot camp. Qualified 'expert' each year for 3 more years with open sights. First hunting rifle was a 30-30 Win, no scope, got my deer. Duck hunted of course with open sights, then when I wanted a more powerful rifle I purchased an 06 with variable scope, getting used to that was a study in futility.

I remember trying to bore sight it, after missing the target completely I had to pick a small bush on the side of the hill to shoot at, finally figured out how to adjust it down to hitting the target consistently but never could group them as good as I did with open sights. I can't hit the side of a barn with a pistol, so no thoughts there. I removed the offending scope & decided that open sights are my answer. I guess the scope would come in handy if you're shooting competition or plinging cans or bottles. I'm just afraid that by the time I get the snake in my viewing area he may have already done his business & left. And, as someone said, if you are shooting at distances of more than 50 yards maybe you shouldn't be shooting.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

What kind of .22 did you get?

I like shooting open sights and with scopes. I don't know what it is about scopes that I like adjusting, but I used to do it for people at the local shooting range just for fun. I can get them dialed in so precise it's scary. Takes a lil bit of time but I have the patience for it. Long range shooting is a lot of fun as is close range and open sights. Heck I just like shooting.....air guns, bows, rifles, handguns, shotguns, like em all.

 

[grandpacamper]

What kind of .22 did you get?  

Went the cheap, minimalistic route.  It's a Savage auto with clip.  The scope is a Tasco 4x15, not much better than open sights.  It's black with a composite stock, paid $159.99 plus $10 for the background check @ Big5 sports.  I did have to go over to Cabela's to get a box of 'snake shot' & a box of 50 LR.  It's been 36 years since I purchased a gun, last was for my son's hunter safety course (another .22) that he still has & shoots.  I think I signed more papers than the last home we purchased.

 

[LeeRevell]

At 60 years old, with a history of eyesight troubles, I do favor scopes on mass market .22 rifles and my hunting rifles. But, my heavy barrel target rifles all wear aperture sights, which, if properly set up and used, can be as accurate as a scope out to 100 yards. I have a pic in my archives of a target I shot at 100 yards with my British BSA Mk.II International Martini rifle, with selfmade mount for a multi-aperture Parker-Hale Mk.7 rear sight and Al Freeland front globe sight. The five round group measures 5/8" . I used CCI Standard ammo, great stuff but not "match grade". Fourteen pounds of single shot perfection! And especially with my old eyes!
But for defense, pinpoint accuracy is not needed. When I travel, my .45 pistol and 12 gauge shotgun ride along.