Going from a van to a bus (eventually, maybe). Small bus vs van.

[East]

So this thought has kind of cropped up over the last month.

While I love my van and it's been serving me well I think I'm going to start putting away money to invest in a small bus and the build. Life is simply trial and error and everyone is quite different with differing desires. With that said I don't mind going to the gym for showers or going to the bathroom in public restrooms but I have this desire to be a little more comfortable and self sufficient. I do have a solar shower but it gets little use and can't be used all of the time.

I think I'd like to partition off the back of a bus for a small bathroom with a standing shower and toilet, install a freshwater tank, greywater and blackwater tank. My current setup is a bit too small for that. While I know I can get by perfectly fine with it I also know that my current setup kind of impedes my ideal comfort in remote places while boondocking. I'd like to have more than enough amenities for extended stays. The area behind the cab on the passenger side wall would have a desk for working (I work online), a simple sink and area for cooking. The driver side wall would have a simple slide out bed/couch with storage underneath.

I'm not done with the van yet though by any stretch of the imagination, this is probably a few years out (I'm 29 now). I'll take my time and save money. I know this will likely be a huge undertaking and have pitfalls in terms of parking and time investments but I'm weighing out the benefits/cons. I'm also interested in investing into a larger solar array over the years as well, so roof space would work well with that. I don't think of this idea as an upgrade so much as a living adjustment.

I was thinking maybe something similar in size to this, without the wheelchair ramp as a starting point:

Anyways I just wanted to pick your brains for some thoughts on the idea. I'm not particularly interested in prebuilt RVs (Class A etc) or upgrading to a high top.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

There is a very active community over on http://www.skoolie.net/forums/  devoted to this subject, and you will certainly want to spend time over there as well as here.

You should be aware that there can be some issues with insuring these conversions - many of the insurance companies that insure RVs refuse to insure home conversions of school buses.

But it sounds like you will have ample time to explore that and find a solution.

Regards
John

 

[akrvbob]

They are pretty tough to stealth park in the city. Most places that run fleets of those have bus barns they go home to at night, they don't just park around the city they look out of place anywhere at night.

A box van has much better stealth and would have enough room for what you want. But, you are back to the problem of insurance. Have that lined up before you buy anything.

For boondocking a box van is still better because they have very high ground clearance while shuttle buses are built to be low.
Bob

 

[SoulRaven]

As is frequently the case, I totally disagree with Bob on the stealth aspect, I see those buses in many places, and if you don't look like you're trying to hide, nobody cares.

There is a different potential problem though. Some towns have laws about vehicle heights, or lengths, or being commercial type, or even dually's parking on the streets overnight. CA is one of the worst I've seen in this respect.

 

[Willy]

Aluminum body stepvan for the WIN!! ..Willy.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

One of the first things you need to do as part of your planning process is determine EXACTLY what you need to do in YOUR state in order to legally register a bus as a motor home.

It can be hard to find, as it's usually buried in some semi-obscure part of the motor vehicle code.

In NY, it's in 15 CCR-NY 106.3 part e:


(e) Motor home

A self-propelled vehicle designed as a travelling place of abode. To qualify as a motor home, a vehicle must have at least four of the following facilities:

(1) cooking with an on-board power source;

(2) a gas or electric refrigerator;

(3) a toilet with exterior evacuation;

(4) heating or air conditioning or both from an on-board power source separate from the vehicle engine;

(5) a potable water supply system including a faucet, sink and a water tank with an exterior service connection; and

(6) a 110-125 volt power supply separate from the vehicle engine.

 

[East]

Thanks everyone.

I have thought about stealth parking and honestly I am not a big fan of any city. I've spent most of my life away from densely populated areas and I don't see that changing. I think this rig would would mostly be limited to boondocking in rural environments legally, such as BLM, etc. I really don't have a problem with moving to new land every 2 weeks or getting a long term vehicle permit for the off months. Maybe in the long term I could buy some property to park my rig somewhere nice. This isn't something I'm burdening myself with now though- I'd not want to get ahead of myself.

I'm currently registered and working "out of" Ohio. From what I can tell people can title a vehicle as an RV easily. The state used to require inspections, but that is no longer the case. In order to do this legitimately, some people will title a vehicle "heavy duty non-commercial", insure, and build. Upon completion they will re-title as an RV. I've noticed some buses titled as RVs without anything that would qualify them on Craigslist. This may be a risky approach though.

Ohio requires these features for an RV:
1. Facilities for cold storage of food: (specify)
ice box or refrigerator
2. Facilities for cooking of food: (specify)
range top or oven
3. Facilities for consumption of food:
table with seating
4. Facilities for sleeping
bed

As you can see, OH is much more lenient than the NY regulations posted. With any luck, that will not change soon. There's a requirement that these items be permanently installed which makes sense and is a totally ok expectation in my book. I still need to do research on insurance, and I will probably start looking around on Skoolie.net (Thanks Optimistic Paranoid) for more information. It certainly doesn't seem impossible, looking at how many people who have managed to do this.

As far as box truck vs shuttle bus, I will keep an open mind. I'm not opposed to box trucks for this idea, so if a better deal comes about I think I might consider it seriously. Aesthetically I do prefer the shuttle bus, but what counts is the living area, and the box truck is probably going to be easier to build in given the clean angles. I'm also much more familiar with driving box trucks, as I used to drive them for a living all around the states in my early 20s. I can't imagine a shuttle bus being radically different to drive though.

Anyways, thanks for all the input, feel free to add more. I'm still bouncing this around in my head. So far I've found that it's at least feasible to title the vehicle properly, with relative ease.

 

[akrvbob]

For boondocking the windows on the shuttle bus would be a big plus, you would probably want to install some in a box van--which is no big deal, but it is extra money and effort.

However, the extra ground clearance on a box van is a pretty big deal, especially in the desert.

However, you can only spend less than 6 months in the desert before it gets too hot and the size of either one is going to be a big negative in the National Forest. I look for narrow forest roads a van can go down and the RVs can't. I've found some of my best campsites that way. This was a campsite like that. My front tire is 6 inches from a tree and my rear tire is a foot from a tree. Nothing wider could have gotten through here.

Bob

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The other issue to think about with these homemade conversions is that if you plan to "move" to a state like SD or TX, the rig will have to meet whatever requirements THEY have, as well as the requirements of wherever you are now.  Can be something of a PITA, I would imagine.

Regards
John

 

[WriterMs]

My rig was a public transit van with a wheel chair lift. Smaller than the one you show, I'm sure, because it is basically a 97 Dodge 3500 extended van. The overall length is maybe an inch or so under 20 feet. One thing I LOVE about it is that it is pretty narrow and not one of the "fat" rounded mass transit vans. My van it 9.5' high -- which I only know because there is a big sticker telling me that in front of the steering wheel. I guess they wanted to constantly remind transit drivers not to go through a drive-thru.

The narrowness plus high top makes for some sway, but I learn to live with it and drive accordingly. It does make it feel very roomy inside -- a man 6'3 can easily stand up straight. A bad effect is that I've been advised not to put holes in the fiberglass top so the only storage up top is a cargo net I've stretched across for light storage.

It has pretty nice clearance EXCEPT the entry door that has steps to walk up into the van rides low as does an outside battery box that contains two batteries (one is my starting battery and the other is a deep cycle "house" battery where the one for the wheelchair lift used to be).

I love the windows in my van -- as much when I'm driving as for the scenery while camping. I can turn and check traffic and such and not rely entirely on mirrors.

For what you describe, I cannot see how you'd work in a shower and the tanks, yet I know my configuration does waste a lot of space. I simply use a pop up shower tent outside -- it is a very roomy one at least 36 inches square when popped open.

You may be able to see the exterior in my profile pic. I'll attach an early pic of the inside with just the flooring in and the beginning of my across-the-back bed. This may help you visualize the transit option.

 

[WriterMs]

OOPs.. I meant to add that South Dakota considers mine a personal vehicle for registration and license. My insurance company acknowledges it as an RV even though it is homemade. I had to make several calls to find a company to insure it at all. But the nice thing about it being RV insurance is that I am automatically covered for a few thousand dollars of contents.

(Insurance was obtained by going through Good Sam but within the first year, it went from being labeled as Good Sam to being National General Insurance. That was the underwriting company for Good Sam all along but Good Sam had slapped their name on it. This "RV" feed-through may be why they agreed to cover me and call my rig an RV.)