Corona, What’s Next?

[rvwandering]

I deleted the posts discussing guns at rallies. It's a subject that will too rapidly lead to arguments.

 

[crofter]

911 was a 1-off event back east. Covid is a 2,000,000-off event that affects everyone in the US, and will be doing so for the next 3-4 months at the very least. No comparison.

Watch out if you're in any of the states where people are starting to protest the shutdowns. First off, those people don't care the least about social distancing, and secondly, a lot of them are carrying semi-automatic rifles. Best stay out of range.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/...o-michigans-coronavirus-lockdown-orders-video

So how to know if the protesters were even from that state? The way the protests were staged on multiple days,  I bet they were the same protesters in multiple states spreading their germs and misinformation across the country.  -crofter

 

[user 423]

I wonder how many anti-vaxxers will change their tune in the next year or so?

 

[Ticklebellly]

Regarding the filing of Law Suits in the USA against China and whether any court has jurisdiction to hear such lawsuits   -"[font=graphik, Arial, sans-serif]A legal doctrine called sovereign immunity offers foreign governments broad protection from being sued in U.S. courts, said Tom Ginsburg, a professor of international law at the University of Chicago, said to Reuters. "[/font]

[font=graphik, Arial, sans-serif]Apparently[/font][font=graphik, Arial, sans-serif], the filings are political in their purpose so no further discussion on that point.[/font]

 

[crofter]

I wonder how many anti-vaxxers will change their tune in the next year or so?

I have noticed that some who publicly opposed social distancing have also died of covid.  The protesters think they are super tough, or just don't care. Check in with the protesters in a month and see how many are left.

A good safe protest would be to call or write to your elected representative. 

-crofter

 

[Qxxx]

It's amazing how many states have large numbers of people gathered elbow to elbow and protesting now. Even Arizona and the Great State of Texas. I entered "michigan protest coronavirus" into google images, and then substituted in several other states.

https://www.google.com/search?q=michigan+protest+coronavirus&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X
https://www.google.com/search?q=florida+protest+coronavirus&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X
https://www.google.com/search?q=pennsylvania+protest+coronavirus&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X
https://www.google.com/search?q=arizona+protest+coronavirus&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X

 

[bullfrog]

Unfortunately they will most likely infect many others as they won't wear a mask in order to protect others from them. The cloth masks are much more effective at keeping an unknowingly infected person from infecting others and do much less to protect the person wearing them from an infected person. Still we do what we can do, sometimes you just can't help stupid.

 

[travelaround]

People are more concerned about their liberties than about their health. They may be living in a form of denial. I can't change these people, but I can make a difference in my own life.

I've been staying home, gardening, having a good old time here by myself... for the most part - though my son came by last weekend to help mow the backyard. Yesterday I mowed part of the front yard myself. I figure I'm good for about 1/16th of an acre at a time. No hurry - the weeds will still be there when I get to them. I just want to spend about 30 to 60 minutes daily in the yard doing things... but today, there's rain. I think I'll just go to the carport which is now being called the gardening shed, and work on tidying things up.

Not worrying about protesters... they may or may not get sick. That's their business, not mine. I feel sorry for anyone worked up enough about all this to go out protesting. I wonder if they've lost their jobs and are worried about losing their homes.

Best of luck, everyone.

 

[Qxxx]

TA, just offhand, I was interested in how the situation is for groceries is in your little out-of-the-way town? I notice only one store, the BigFoot store. Do some people truck 100 miles round trip for groceries? Stock up ahead with months of provisions?

 

[WanderingRose]

I tend to first think “get a grip, folks”, when I see people protesting stay at home orders that have been enacted to save lives and prevent the flat-out overwhelming of our healthcare system with critically ill patients.

However, I am not a parent, single parent or even non-parent who was already living very close to the bone and is now faced because of this crisis with mounting bills and hungry children. 

Some of these people are just oppositional and antagonistic on their best day, others are truly desperate.

Some believe a high number of people dying and healthcare workers dropping like flies is an acceptable level of risk and casualty level, possibly because the virus hasn’t yet touched them and theirs.

The truth is, none of us have ever experienced anything like this pandemic.  It feels surreal, because it is.

I hope to hold onto reason and relative calm, and plan to listen to and follow the advice of those I trust to lead us out of this burning building.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Have any of you actually talked to any of the protesters?  Not just a sound bite from a very biased and sensational press; I mean actually talking to them.  I see a lot of personal anxiety mirrored onto others.

When the government and press decided to use fear to motivate people to comply the results were predictable.  People eventually figure you out and then your credibility is shot.

There are three things we know about stopping transmission:
-1- social distancing, stay at least 6' apart
-2- proper hygiene, especially not washing hands, not touching face
-3- A effective mask, worn correctly in contaminated places
(if it is easy to breathe through it is not effective).

Stay-at-home might be a good strategy for some high density places but it is excessive for most of America; and people are rebelling.
No being able to drive in your car or play alone in a field is asking for trouble.

At some point in a crisis we have to decide if the cure is doing more damage than the disease.

 

[Qxxx]

There are three things we know about stopping transmission:
-1- social distancing, stay at least 6' apart
-2- proper hygiene, especially not washing hands, not touching face
-3- A effective mask, worn correctly in contaminated places

Well spiff, we know what "you" know. But there are dozens and dozens of pictures of the protesters. What do "they" know?
-1- social distancing, stay at least 6' apart
-2- proper hygiene, especially not washing hands, not touching face
-3- A effective mask, worn correctly in PUBLIC places

 

[barleyguy]

Is there any statistical evidence that the lockdowns have even done any good? If we compare places that have locked down to places that haven't, is there any statistically relevant difference?

As examples, Taiwan didn't lock down at all, or even close restaurants, and has done really well, even though they are very close to China. Sweden didn't lock down or close businesses, and has done worse than Norway or Denmark, but much better than most of Europe. South Carolina didn't lock down, and has done about 3 times as well as Colorado, a state with the same population that did.

If not locking down, or letting people go back to their lives, is going to kill us all, where is the statistical evidence? The evidence they show on the news seems to come from computer models. Computer models aren't real. If you feed in bad input, they put out bad output.

The symptom rates and mortality rates seem to track with population density, age, and comorbidity. I think when we look back at this , whether a particular place locked down will be insignificant as far as health success rates. Which we may be able to use as evidence to guide us the next time something like this happens.

 

[Ticklebellly]

Is there any statistical evidence that the lockdowns have even done any good?

Yes!!!!!    Australia.   No discussion about a curve anymore, the graph is now a flat line.   The State my children are living in right now, has had no new cases for some days and testing is 10 time the rate being done in the US.   I suspect cultural differences have an effect on whether a Lockdown works.   A much greater sense of community and co-operation towards the greater good is essential.   Community leaders also need to agree a consensus on the way to go.   Playing politics in circumstances where people's lives are at risk will always muck up any strategy to beat a pandemic.

 

[user 423]

South Carolina didn't lock down, and has done about 3 times as well as Colorado, a state with the same population that did.

It seems SC senator Lindsey Graham is upset that neighboring state Georgia is opening their businesses too soon:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=lindsey+graham+georgia+businesses+open

SC issued a stay-at-home order on April 7. I guess they're thinking 'better late than never':

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news...-us-state-to-issue-stay-at-home-orders-623831

 

[travelaround]

TA, just offhand, I was interested in how the situation is for groceries is in your little out-of-the-way town? I notice only one store, the BigFoot store. Do some people truck 100 miles round trip for groceries? Stock up ahead with months of provisions?

We have a market - called Kingfisher Market. There's also a liquor store that offers groceries, like a convenience store. The Bigfoot store was small and has closed. Our market has plenty of food in it, but some items are more expensive than what you'd expect at Walmart. Not all the prices are high, and there are sales, organic foods, etc.. The nearest Walmart is about 70 miles from here. There are some families that prefer to shop in Medford (no taxes) but I shop at our local market and for items I can't get here, I order online.

It is about a two hour drive to get to the main road - Interstate 5, and Yreka. When you live here, the two hour drive (hour and a half for people who drive too fast) well, that drive goes fast because it is just normal for us. Besides, it is beautiful. That's just the cost of living in a remote, beautiful place.

During the summer we can drive over the hill to Oregon and shop at Cave Junction where there's a large supermarket. Again, I'm happy enough not going there as the drive out of town in my big van is costly... and I don't think it saves me money to do that. If I go over there it is more for the joy of seeing something different for a few hours.

 

[user 423]

South Carolina didn't lock down, and has done about 3 times as well as Colorado, a state with the same population that did.

Colorado has over 10 times as many tourists as South Carolina each year. Much more chance of spread in the early days and before lockdown.

Crested Butte and other areas were hard hit probably because of so many out-of-state and international visitors at the ski areas.

 

[Qxxx]

South Carolina didn't lock down, and has done about 3 times as well as Colorado, a state with the same population that did.

Hmm, I'm not really up to speed on S.Carolina, but this page indicates they did implement the basic lockdown steps, back in the middle of March.
https://www.newsweek.com/south-caro...es-state-emergency-extended-end-april-1497516

Of some interest is that Georgia has about 2X the population of next-door S.Carolina and there have been 20,000 cases and 800 deaths in GA, versus 4600 and 135 in SC, or 4-6X as many.

I would bet the reason CO and GA have high numbers is because they are both major transportation hubs, especially for Interstate traffic and airlines. And that also seems to be a major reason why NYC and the european countries have such high cases. No one in their right mind would want to be sealed up in an airplane with 200-300 other passengers and with closed ventilation systems right now. Might as well get on a cruise ship.

 

[Qxxx]

We have a market - called Kingfisher Market.
.......The Bigfoot store was small and has closed.

Thanks for the update. Nice to live in a small town in the middle of nowheres, . If you run out of food, you can go out and shoot a bear. I mentioned Bigfoot last time because google maps shows a Bigfoot standing in front of the Kingfisher store. Be careful out there!! There may yet be a "real" sighting.

 

[travelaround]

Right now we have three Bigfoot statues in town. The Patterson-Gimlin film at Bluff Creek was about 50 miles southwest of here. There have been many sighting reports in this area. I used to research this and have a blog about it but I've never had a sighting.