On a happier note... my youngest daughter got engaged yesterday! Only one that listened to her dad... you can’t date til 35... haha!
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bullfrog !
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I saw a news story on PBS about independent primary physicians yesterday inspired by Patch Adams that have clinics that you buy a membership for $80 dollars a month for unlimited 24 hour service. I thought that was too good to be true so I checked Grand Junction Colorado and sure enough there was one with 3 offices in about a 100 mile range that not only provided unlimited doctor visits but in some cases house calls, tests, X-ray, plus yearly dental visits for $89 a month. Doctors treating people without insurance companies telling them to hurry up, imagine that!
Frood
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100 years ago you went into medicine because you wanted to help people. Today you go into medicine because you want a fat paycheck. Doctors and dentists are pretty close to the top of the list of people I can't wait to replace with AI.
user 37446
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I was skeptical about this story so looked it up. Seems legit. Here's an example: https://afterhoursmedical.com/membership/
I don't know how clinics can make enough $ doing this but I am glad to see the option.
A bit of an explanation here:
Ed Finkel
Patients pay fees for bundle of services instead of-or in addition to-going through insurance
Physician practices described as “membership medicine” have been springing up across the country during the past decade. These practices, in which patients pay a monthly or annual retainer to their doctor or medical office for a contracted bundle of services, offer an alternative model for physicians who hope to spend less time on paperwork and more time with patients.
Jay Keese, executive director of the Direct Primary Care Coalition and a lobbyist with Capital Advocates in Washington, D.C., says those who switch from medicine-as-usual to membership medicine typically reduce their patient panel size from about 2,500 to 600.
Further reading: Here is the key to maintain a thriving practice
Patients in membership medicine practices typically pay about $60 per month for the bundle of services, which are usually standardized within a practice and not individually negotiated, Keese says. With 600 patients, that “adds up to a pretty good revenue stream, and you can probably cut down on administrative personnel,” resulting in cost savings, he says.
In addition to benefitting from improved income stream, more time with patients and less paperwork, those who have gone the membership medicine route say they’re happy they don’t need to participate in the Quality Payment Program established under the Medicare Access and Chip Reauthorization Act of 2015 (MACRA). End of copied portion.
Eric Potter, MD, who practices internal medicine and pediatrics in Franklin, Tennessee, under the name Sanctuary Functional Medicine, was pleased when the business consultant who helped him set up his business told him that the new Medicare reimbursement program didn’t apply to his new practice.
“How much time do we need to spend documenting things rather than just taking care of patients?” he says. Given how relatively new and unregulated membership medicine is, he adds, “It’s a little like cutting down the forest and building a log cabin. You feel like a little bit of a frontiersman.”
Kylie Vannaman, MD, a primary care physician and co-founder of Health Suite 110 in Overland Park, Kansas, says she’s also glad to be avoiding MACRA. Otherwise, when dealing with Medicare, doctors have to spend time on paperwork “and checking boxes to prove what kind of care [they’re] giving, rather than actually giving care,” she says. “It’s exhausting, and not worth it.”
I don't know how clinics can make enough $ doing this but I am glad to see the option.
A bit of an explanation here:
Here's why membership medicine is gaining physician attention
Feb 10, 2017Ed Finkel
Patients pay fees for bundle of services instead of-or in addition to-going through insurance
Physician practices described as “membership medicine” have been springing up across the country during the past decade. These practices, in which patients pay a monthly or annual retainer to their doctor or medical office for a contracted bundle of services, offer an alternative model for physicians who hope to spend less time on paperwork and more time with patients.
Jay Keese, executive director of the Direct Primary Care Coalition and a lobbyist with Capital Advocates in Washington, D.C., says those who switch from medicine-as-usual to membership medicine typically reduce their patient panel size from about 2,500 to 600.
Further reading: Here is the key to maintain a thriving practice
Patients in membership medicine practices typically pay about $60 per month for the bundle of services, which are usually standardized within a practice and not individually negotiated, Keese says. With 600 patients, that “adds up to a pretty good revenue stream, and you can probably cut down on administrative personnel,” resulting in cost savings, he says.
In addition to benefitting from improved income stream, more time with patients and less paperwork, those who have gone the membership medicine route say they’re happy they don’t need to participate in the Quality Payment Program established under the Medicare Access and Chip Reauthorization Act of 2015 (MACRA). End of copied portion.
Eric Potter, MD, who practices internal medicine and pediatrics in Franklin, Tennessee, under the name Sanctuary Functional Medicine, was pleased when the business consultant who helped him set up his business told him that the new Medicare reimbursement program didn’t apply to his new practice.
“How much time do we need to spend documenting things rather than just taking care of patients?” he says. Given how relatively new and unregulated membership medicine is, he adds, “It’s a little like cutting down the forest and building a log cabin. You feel like a little bit of a frontiersman.”
Kylie Vannaman, MD, a primary care physician and co-founder of Health Suite 110 in Overland Park, Kansas, says she’s also glad to be avoiding MACRA. Otherwise, when dealing with Medicare, doctors have to spend time on paperwork “and checking boxes to prove what kind of care [they’re] giving, rather than actually giving care,” she says. “It’s exhausting, and not worth it.”
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LauraNSasha
Member
Hate to say it, but that is true for those not on Medicare. I rarely go to the doctor, but when I do, they always ask.
Because my hubby is 65+, they ask EVERY TIME: are you depressed? Have you been beaten?
I mean, really? Now, not only are you asked about smoking and drinking, you’re asked about that? At least here in NV, they don’t seem to ask if you take happy *******, as they are legal here.
If I’m getting charged for it, I have yet to see the charge. Being under 65 has its perks.
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Not AI
We just need to replace our current system with single payer. Doctors in England make much less and are happy with what they make.
Spaceman Spiff
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Doctors in England just voted to strike. And that's why they have such a chronic doctor shortage and the doctors they do have either work part time or take months long vacations.
Nurses have been on strike for a while. And nurses who are the sole bread winner in the family have to utilize food shelves.
In England, if you can afford it, you go to India for major medical procedures.
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I have friends there who are happy with their healthcare system. Striking is common around the world. I'll ask my friends about the going to India
Edit: found an article about the strike. First one in 50 years:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/27/senior-doctors-in-england-vote-to-strike-over-pay
Edit: found an article about the strike. First one in 50 years:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/27/senior-doctors-in-england-vote-to-strike-over-pay
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user 37446
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Medical tourism is real, whether its N Americans going to Mexico or Central America, or folks going to Europs or Asia. Here's an excerpt from a 2022 article:
SURGERY
By Jennifer Whitlock, RN, MSN, FN
Updated on August 11, 2022
Medically reviewed by David Strosberg, MD
Table of Contents
Medical tourism is a term that refers to traveling to another country to get a medical or dental procedure. In some instances, medical tourists travel abroad seeking alternative treatments that are not approved in the United States.1
Medical tourism is successful for millions of people each year, and it is on the rise for a variety of reasons, including increasing healthcare costs in the United States, lack of health insurance, specialist-driven procedures, high-quality facilities, and the opportunity to travel before or after a medical procedure.2
According to a New York Times article from January 2021, pent-up demand for nonessential surgeries, as well as the fact that many Americans lost their health insurance during the coronavirus pandemic led to a surge in medical tourism once other countries re-opened.
However, there are specific risks that come with traveling overseas for surgery. If you're thinking of pursuing a medical procedure in another country, here's what to know about the benefits and the risks.
This is not to be confused with having an unplanned procedure in a foreign country due to an unexpected illness or injury.
Among the reasons a person might choose to go abroad for a medical procedure are:1
For someone who doesn't have insurance, or someone having a procedure that is not covered by insurance, the difference can be enormous.
Colombia
Costa Rica
Turkey
India
Dominican Republic
Malaysia
South Korea
Thailand
(End of copied portion)
Another article extract spoke of Singapore: https://medtouragency.com/best-countries-for-medical-tourism/
Compared to some western countries, Singapore is an excellent choice for getting low-cost medical treatments. However, patients don’t come here to save costs. Instead, the country is considered one of the safest destinations for receiving state-of-the-art medical support. Plus, Singapore accounts for one of the highest numbers of JCI accredited hospitals, signifying the overall better quality of medical services.
Regarding the cost, for treatments such as heart bypass surgeries, in the US, it will cost around $123,000. Whereas in Singapore, it’s approximately $16,000 to $25,000. Other treatment costs are also low, such as normal delivery fees range between $6,000 to 12,500, Hip replacement within $8,500 to 12,000, and removal of a breast lump will cost around $5,400 to $10,700.
In Singapore, patients can save 25% to 40% compared to the same services available in the United States. The country is regarded to be the center for activities such as biomedical and biotechnological procedures. Hospitals there specialize in treatments for implications relating to cardiology, hematology, oncology, neurology, stem cell therapy, and orthopedics.
Singapore was rated as the 6th best healthcare system by the World Health Organization. This also helped the country to attract millions of international patients each year. Plus, according to 2019 data, the country enjoys the world’s longest life expectancy, with females living on average at 87.6 years and men 81.9 years.
(End of copied portion)
SURGERY
Why Patients Are Turning to Medical Tourism
Statistics, Benefits, and RisksBy Jennifer Whitlock, RN, MSN, FN
Updated on August 11, 2022
Medically reviewed by David Strosberg, MD
Table of Contents
Medical tourism is a term that refers to traveling to another country to get a medical or dental procedure. In some instances, medical tourists travel abroad seeking alternative treatments that are not approved in the United States.1
Medical tourism is successful for millions of people each year, and it is on the rise for a variety of reasons, including increasing healthcare costs in the United States, lack of health insurance, specialist-driven procedures, high-quality facilities, and the opportunity to travel before or after a medical procedure.2
According to a New York Times article from January 2021, pent-up demand for nonessential surgeries, as well as the fact that many Americans lost their health insurance during the coronavirus pandemic led to a surge in medical tourism once other countries re-opened.
However, there are specific risks that come with traveling overseas for surgery. If you're thinking of pursuing a medical procedure in another country, here's what to know about the benefits and the risks.
Medical Tourism Benefits
The most common procedures Americans go abroad for include dental care, cosmetic procedures, fertility treatments, organ transplants, and cancer treatment.1This is not to be confused with having an unplanned procedure in a foreign country due to an unexpected illness or injury.
Among the reasons a person might choose to go abroad for a medical procedure are:1
Lower Costs
Medical tourists can save anywhere from 25% to 90% in medical bills, depending on the procedure they get and the country they travel to. There are several factors that play into this:- The cost of diagnostic testing and medications is particularly expensive in the United States.
- The cost of pre- and post-procedure labor is often dramatically lower overseas. This includes labor costs for nurses, aides, surgeons, pharmacists, physical therapists, and more.
- High cost of malpractice insurance—the insurance that protects medical professionals against lawsuits—in the United States.
- Hospital stays cost far less in many overseas countries compared to the United States. In other words, quality care, hospital meals, and rehabilitation are far more affordable abroad for many people.
For someone who doesn't have insurance, or someone having a procedure that is not covered by insurance, the difference can be enormous.
Popular Countries for Medical Tourism
MexicoColombia
Costa Rica
Turkey
India
Dominican Republic
Malaysia
South Korea
Thailand
(End of copied portion)
Another article extract spoke of Singapore: https://medtouragency.com/best-countries-for-medical-tourism/
11 Best Countries For Medical Tourism In 2023
February 21, 2021Singapore
Singapore is considered an international hot spot for medical vacation. It ranks 2nd in the global top 46 medical tourism destinations and is estimated to have around 500,000 visitors each year.Compared to some western countries, Singapore is an excellent choice for getting low-cost medical treatments. However, patients don’t come here to save costs. Instead, the country is considered one of the safest destinations for receiving state-of-the-art medical support. Plus, Singapore accounts for one of the highest numbers of JCI accredited hospitals, signifying the overall better quality of medical services.
Regarding the cost, for treatments such as heart bypass surgeries, in the US, it will cost around $123,000. Whereas in Singapore, it’s approximately $16,000 to $25,000. Other treatment costs are also low, such as normal delivery fees range between $6,000 to 12,500, Hip replacement within $8,500 to 12,000, and removal of a breast lump will cost around $5,400 to $10,700.
In Singapore, patients can save 25% to 40% compared to the same services available in the United States. The country is regarded to be the center for activities such as biomedical and biotechnological procedures. Hospitals there specialize in treatments for implications relating to cardiology, hematology, oncology, neurology, stem cell therapy, and orthopedics.
Singapore was rated as the 6th best healthcare system by the World Health Organization. This also helped the country to attract millions of international patients each year. Plus, according to 2019 data, the country enjoys the world’s longest life expectancy, with females living on average at 87.6 years and men 81.9 years.
(End of copied portion)
Frood
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AI is already doing a pretty good job at diagnosis.Not AI
We just need to replace our current system with single payer. Doctors in England make much less and are happy with what they make.
https://www.popsci.com/technology/ai-doctor-google-deepmind/
AI is also getting better at dealing with patients than actual human doctors.
https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-bedside-manner-than-some-doctors-study-finds
And the technology is getting better and more reliable every single day.
If you want inferior, less accurate medical care then you can go to a human doctor. Myself, I sincerely look forward to being able to visit my robot doctor. Or even better yet a medical subroutine that my smart-home can access without having to visit a doctor at all.
** Edit ** Updated first link with more recent article
user 37446
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AI can be programmed to be much more patient than I would be...
Morgana
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AI is a tool -- just like tele-health and depression-screening (mentioned above) are tools (btw there's nothing special about those two; they're just what I happened to notice).
A tool can be used for good or ill, to benefit patients or to rip them off (illegally or technically legally), to work more effectively or to slack off and screw up.
\_(**)_/ it's a tool.
It's still a human choice (for now -- bwaaaaaa) what to do with it.
AI just raises the ante.
If it's deployed into the same dysfunctional system that has chewed up and spit out all these other tools, I wouldn't rest too easy assuming it's gonna be good for us little guys.
A tool can be used for good or ill, to benefit patients or to rip them off (illegally or technically legally), to work more effectively or to slack off and screw up.
\_(**)_/ it's a tool.
It's still a human choice (for now -- bwaaaaaa) what to do with it.
AI just raises the ante.
If it's deployed into the same dysfunctional system that has chewed up and spit out all these other tools, I wouldn't rest too easy assuming it's gonna be good for us little guys.
Spaceman Spiff
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Who is going to control the programming of AI? Mega healthcare corporations? Pharmaceutical Conglomorates? Governement bureaucrats?
Those questions about abuse and depression might not be relevant to you but they might help significantly improve or even save another person’s life.
They did not used to be common on health screenings but time has shown they are important questions to ask so now the standard screening question forms include them.
Remember that some seniors get conditions that cause changes in their brains and those changes can include depression as well as paranoia such as thinking other people are harming them. Questions about depression and abuse do belong on senior wellness checks. Early onset dementia can happen in the 60s years age range so it needs to be screened for.
They did not used to be common on health screenings but time has shown they are important questions to ask so now the standard screening question forms include them.
Remember that some seniors get conditions that cause changes in their brains and those changes can include depression as well as paranoia such as thinking other people are harming them. Questions about depression and abuse do belong on senior wellness checks. Early onset dementia can happen in the 60s years age range so it needs to be screened for.
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Right now, us little guys can use pretty much the same software as anyone else. A friend of mine who is far more sophisticated than I am in such matters is using AI to help him in his custom programming business. He says it saves him a lot of time. The way he describes it, it greatly facilitates the evolutionary approach to programming - AI generates possible solutions to what he needs done, and he "selects" the approach he thinks can get him closest to where he wants to go.
He's actually a bit more paranoid about many things than I am, but AI isn't one of those things.
July 1st, definetly summer weather here at approx 7300’ elevation. It is in the mid 80s for the afternoon high and in the upper 50s to mid 60s at night.
I just put packed away my heavy blanket and my warmer clothes. Then I got out my 02 Cool fan. Yesterday I put up my shade cloth around the east, south and west sides of my trailer as it is not too windy for it.
I need to go into Flagstaff on Monday to pick up an Amazon order and while there I will get my annual shorter summer length hair cut which helps a lot to keep me cooler.
If it gets too warm here there is lots more dispersed NFS camping at about 8,000 feet a half hour Northwest of Flagstaff along hwy 180 near the mountain pass on that road.
As there is now avstage 1 burn ban in effect in all of the Coconino NFS and the Williams district of the Kaibab NFS the logging operations have now ceased operation. No more whining saws to be heard processing the downed logs. They have been doing a lot of thinning in this area to reduce fire hazards. On one side of the road I am camped on the thinning is completed, on the other side the woods are dense with lots of shade. I think I will go over to the dense side and put up my hammock! But I need to watch the sun pattern to find the best trees for that.
I just put packed away my heavy blanket and my warmer clothes. Then I got out my 02 Cool fan. Yesterday I put up my shade cloth around the east, south and west sides of my trailer as it is not too windy for it.
I need to go into Flagstaff on Monday to pick up an Amazon order and while there I will get my annual shorter summer length hair cut which helps a lot to keep me cooler.
If it gets too warm here there is lots more dispersed NFS camping at about 8,000 feet a half hour Northwest of Flagstaff along hwy 180 near the mountain pass on that road.
As there is now avstage 1 burn ban in effect in all of the Coconino NFS and the Williams district of the Kaibab NFS the logging operations have now ceased operation. No more whining saws to be heard processing the downed logs. They have been doing a lot of thinning in this area to reduce fire hazards. On one side of the road I am camped on the thinning is completed, on the other side the woods are dense with lots of shade. I think I will go over to the dense side and put up my hammock! But I need to watch the sun pattern to find the best trees for that.
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user 37446
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"I think I will go over to the dense side..."
Wheh, thought you were lost to us for a minute there...
Wheh, thought you were lost to us for a minute there...
Spaceman Spiff
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Control, not use.
I use iOS to type this. I did not program it, I cannot modify it. Apple programmers choose what results I get for questions to Siri and what information I don't get to see.
Any software is only as good as the programmers creating it. There will be lots of money dependent on what diagnosis and treatments it recommends.
