will the explosion of full time Vandwellers that the life will be more costly.

[ChileSauceCritic]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Right now my back of the napkin calculations show about 60-70% of my income will free up if I go fulltime in a van for most people it will be closer to 30-40%, but in the last 3-4 years there has been an explosion of middle income 40-55 year old Telecommuters and 20Somthing remote workers who have joined the nomad caravan and I'm thinking at some point states and corporations will start to view this subculture as a resource to exploit, right now governments are trying to penalize people who live in their vehicles by passing laws left and right, but as more so-called [/font][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]"respectable people"[/font][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] join the life will more campgrounds both state and private start raising fee's as to only attract a certain "type" of nomad? will we start seeing stricter rules about the condition our rigs must be in at many campgrounds? Will the Nomad community start to form a class system like the rest of population? I know there kinda is one now but not to the same extent as there is in the S&B world as all the groups still seem to interact with each other at the gatherings.[/font]

 

[DLTooley]

This is ongoing, we shall see a new phase with people entering the life due current conditions.

Perhaps the most entertaining part of this process are the middle management folks who attempt to build some sort of corporate type structure.

The fundamental nature of self reliance is central to this community, if you haven’t learned that for yourself you won’t respect it.

You could though start a YouTube channel!

 

[SLB_SA]

If being a nomad in a vehicle becomes extremely difficult for the vast majority, then some portion of nomads will become vehicle-less homeless and just add to the more serious and visible problem of homeless people. I think fears of a serious national crackdown on vanlife are overblown. People have to live somewhere; would the "authorities" prefer an RV or van permanently parked on a street in LA, NYC, Chicago, Houston, etc. or a van or box truck boondocking on BLM land? As for the question of "a class system," my answer is "human nature."

 

[crofter]

Capitalism is all about competition, and there is plenty of that. Campsites are reviewed online and the results are tracked by the concessionairs (companies that operate campgrounds).

At this park the rent goes up every year. And all the sites are inspected when they are "built" or the title transfers: cost me $3k in required repairs when I took this place over. 

To make the most of it, have an RVIA tag on your rig and move it when the rent goes up. Know what your real requirements are: WIFI, showers, laundry, pool, cheap electricity. When it no longer floats your boat to be there, turn the key and find a new favorite place to be.

If you don't want to be in a park with hookups, get good at boondocking. People will pay you to boondock and maintain remote properties including national forest campgrounds. Pay should include a free dry site and pay at $12 per hour for all hours worked. When there are hookups you usually have to kick in some hours for the site.
-crofter

 

[crofter]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]... trying to penalize people who live in their vehicles by passing laws left and right, but as more so-called [/font][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]"respectable people"[/font][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] join the life ...[/font]

Who is respectable? Concessionairs determine this at pay sites.

Rigs with RVIA tags are the most "respectable" when it comes to getting a site in some places.

Home built van conversions and cargo trailers no matter how nice or expensive are banned from some sites. If you want to be "respectable" and accepted everywhere you need a newer rig with RVIA tag.
-crofter

 

[JDub]

That's the truth. Tough to get into many "nice" locales without one. Also bars a lot of nice
folks...

Cheers

 

[Katt]

I think there is already a class system in the nomad community. Just look at Youtube. There are fulltimers who own houses but don't live in them at all, in $200,000 Tiffins. People from all walks of life and economic classes are doing this, and for various reasons. I'd say my partner and I are somewhere in the middle, and we crawled back to where we are now from job loss and coming within 3 days of our home being auctioned by the bank. We're not wealthy but we're not destitute at this moment. But we know that no one but billionaires are exempt from the stark reality that is being one step away from poverty and homelessness.

We are comprised of different classes, yes; But we're not all that different or far away from each other, economically speaking. Socially speaking, you are what you make yourself. Personally, I'd rather dine and dance with sinners and the poor than the wealthy elite any day.

 

[MotorVation]

Anyone remember bell bottoms? Just sayin'

I think the hoity doity elite instragram 'vanlifers' should have a logo with a gargoyle pooping in a bucket.

 

[ChileSauceCritic]

I think there is already a class system in the nomad community. Just look at Youtube. There are fulltimers who own houses but don't live in them at all, in $200,000 Tiffins. People from all walks of life and economic classes are doing this, and for various reasons. I'd say my partner and I are somewhere in the middle, and we crawled back to where we are now from job loss and coming within 3 days of our home being auctioned by the bank. We're not wealthy but we're not destitute at this moment. But we know that no one but billionaires are exempt from the stark reality that is being one step away from poverty and homelessness.

We are comprised of different classes, yes; But we're not all that different or far away from each other, economically speaking. Socially speaking, you are what you make yourself. Personally, I'd rather dine and dance with sinners and the poor than the wealthy elite any day.

 You are proving my point, there are different classes among nomads(there always have been) but there is not a class system yet, I've stumbled across gatherings when camping where I saw retired middleclass full timers in decked out vans and RV's drinkin beers with a bunch of hippy stoners in a beat up old van, the same does not happen in the S&B world, those stoners get the cops called on them if they make a wrong turn into a middle class neighborhood.

 

[Katt]

I wasn't disputing what you were saying :shy:

Years ago, we bought our big old Victorian fixer upper in a small village/town that got swallowed up by urban flight. With the exception of about four families, we ended up hating all of it because over the years all the old farmland surrounding it on three sides got turned into developments and all the old houses started to get flipped by outsiders and now the whole effn town is gentrified with snotty elites who took everything over from the school board to government positions, and it's an all-out war on anyone who doesn't keep a perfect house, car and yard.

I hope the Hippies and the Tiffins continue to embrace each other out on the road instead of ending up like our town. When we started thinking about doing this seriously a few years ago and even in 2019 when we put the initial payment down on our bus, we had no idea there was such a community like you find in this group. I've been following Bob Wells on YT for about a year now, but I still didn't even know how close-knit the community is until we started hanging in certain FB groups. I already am of the mindset that I have zero desire to stay anywhere that excluded people with older rigs, even if we owned something brand new. I'm all about surrounding myself with people who are nice. IDC how fat your wallet is or how big and nice your home is. But, in the words of Karine Polwart, "there are people in this world who don't think like you do."

As far as places to stay and call home for a while, I think those will always exist. I actually think that as more people with money hit the road, it may change certain things for the better. Laws tend to not change unless people with money want them to. So I can see more restrictive laws against parking and living in RV's actually loosening. This country is on the brink of socioeconomic collapse, so there may not be too many people left with the means or desire to complain about what nomads are doing and where we're parking. I'm probably way too optimistic. I've felt for a long time that the only thing that will fix this country is the whole damn thing hitting rock bottom, because way too many people just don't care about anyone else but themselves. I dunno. I've got a lot to learn. All I know is, I hate this capitalist hellscape we live in and how it tends to ruin good people and prop up ****** people.

 

[WanderingRose]

I have noticed lately more private campgrounds stating outright on their web pages that no car camping nor homemade rigs are allowed.

Public campgrounds are much more flexible, and I am currently in a favorite where I have seen car camping and next to me is a utility trailer being used as a camper.

I think it behooves all of us traveling full or part time to be really mindful of the impression we are leaving, such as in keeping our rigs and area clean to give less reason for complaints.

I think we are going to see more restrictions in towns and cities against staying in cars and vans overnight.

Increased restrictions may be driven by aesthetics, also by those seeing vehicle dwellers as keeping rent money from landlords of various types.

 

[RoamerRV428]

costly from this standpoint. no. everything is ramping up with higher price increases and every aspect of life is going that way. Cost more to live of course, can one still 'bob and weave' thru it, yea we all do it and still will do it LOL

I don't think an on the road lifestyle is gonna go bonkers yet in any way.

I think it is SO personal on how you also 'evaluate it' on your 'personal level of finances' and 'health issues' and alot more ya know.............so it is what it is, we see where life all goes for many and to me it is just a normal factor of the times and how the path forward is for each of us on an individual basis.

big monster crazy changes, nope. crazy coming at us later down the line and bigger future times, yup

 

[SLB_SA]

I think we are going to see more restrictions in towns and cities against staying in cars and vans overnight.

Are you ignoring court decisions like Appeals court panel ends L.A. ban on homeless living in vehicles that might prevent cities from restricting overnight parking?

 

[eDJ_]

I think Crofter makes some good points.  "Human Nature".  Those who seek money will look for ways to exploit trends.  Those who are secular will cleave to others who are similar to themselves whether it be the types of rigs, views, etc and that will begin to form a hierarchy.  Don't forget "status".  Some brand new shiny RV opposed to a rolling junk pile posing as a rig.  All of these will find their own levels. 

Where will the increasing cost show up?  I figure in campgrounds first.  Next in vehicle taxes, license plates & insurance.  Then is specialized services for rigs,  such as sanitation dump stations.  Perhaps around resort areas that would be attractive to RV'ers and those supplying such things as Propane Gas or liquid fuels for lanterns, stoves, heaters. 

Online, equipment outfitters for Nomads will likely experiment with adjusting prices up to see if they "can" gouge while justifying it with supply and demand.  This could be anything from solar to 12 volt appliances.  But shrewd business types may actually lower their prices to get the business when that happens. 

In the end that's why Bob Wells has named this site "Cheap RV Living".   Living a minimalist lifestyle and being as self sufficient as possible will be key to keeping all of this affordable to everyone.

 

[skyl4rk]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]... in the last 3-4 years there has been an explosion of middle income 40-55 year old Telecommuters and 20Somthing remote workers who have joined the nomad caravan[/font]

Do you have any numbers on this?  data sources?

Just curious, as I don't see it where I live in the frozen northland. Maybe it is true for warmer climates.

 

[WanderingRose]

Are you ignoring court decisions like Appeals court panel ends L.A. ban on homeless living in vehicles that might prevent cities from restricting overnight parking?

No, I’m aware of that ruling, and if I remember correctly the crux of that was that LA didn’t have enough shelter beds so therefore could not ban sleeping in cars.

Or maybe that was in Portland.

I do think it is going to become an issue, because of the increase in numbers of people living in vehicles, for whatever reason.

There may be more of empty lots being designated for overnighters, as we’ve seen some of that.

 

[crofter]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]...in the last 3-4 years there has been an explosion of middle income 40-55 year old Telecommuters ...[/font]

CHECKING.....



Nope, that wasn't 115% more telecommuters as CNN says.
-crofter

 

[ChileSauceCritic]

I think Crofter makes some good points.  "Human Nature".  Those who seek money will look for ways to exploit trends.  Those who are secular will cleave to others who are similar to themselves whether it be the types of rigs, views, etc and that will begin to form a hierarchy.  Don't forget "status".  Some brand new shiny RV opposed to a rolling junk pile posing as a rig.  All of these will find their own levels. 

 I understand what you mean, right now the "home on wheels" community is small enough that there is still enough common ground that all they types of nomads can still get along and socialize with each other.  sort of like how 2 ethnic groups from the same country who grew up hating each other can move to America or the UK  and start socializing with each other and grouping in the same neighborhoods. (because they have more in common with each other than they do with the greater population).

 The "[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]brand new shiny RV opposed to a rolling junk pile posing as a rig" are still the majority, but a small enough population that you still have "[size=small]retired middleclass full timers in decked out vans and RV's drinkin beers with a bunch of hippy stoners in a beat up old van"[/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] But with many people losing their homes and selling said homes before they lose it and buying a van to avoid being [/font]completely homeless, and the remote worker's choosing the lifestyle the population may grow enough where those within it start picking sides. as this video is an example of the new wave of nomads I think will get catered to. 
[video=youtube]

Where will the increasing cost show up?  I figure in campgrounds first.  Next in vehicle taxes, license plates & insurance.  Then is specialized services for rigs,  such as sanitation dump stations.  Perhaps around resort areas that would be attractive to RV'ers and those supplying such things as Propane Gas or liquid fuels for lanterns, stoves, heaters. 

 I agree, I'm hearing this is already starting. 

Online, equipment outfitters for Nomads will likely experiment with adjusting prices up to see if they "can" gouge while justifying it with supply and demand.  This could be anything from solar to 12 volt appliances.  But shrewd business types may actually lower their prices to get the business when that happens. 

  Amazon already has pickup lockers, often in bus stations or in front of mom & pop businesses my sister has one in front of her restaurant. That my end up being a source of supplies for nomads. as it's a feature on the amazon app to know the locations of boxes you can have things sent to, you can roll into a city and have stuff waiting for you as you sent your stuff to a city you knew you were gonna be at.  So with amazons 3rd party sellers I doubt prices will go up too much, as they still compete with craigslist and offerup if they brought their prices too high.
[img=600x400]https://cnet4.cbsistatic.com/img/bM...-8f70d914bd2b/gettyimages-626306898.jpg[/img]

In the end that's why Bob Wells has named this site "Cheap RV Living".   Living a minimalist lifestyle and being as self sufficient as possible will be key to keeping all of this affordable to everyone.

 Again I agree, I have been boondocking for a week now, stealth parking will have to wait till I get a van, when and if I go full time.

 

[user 37446]

Maybe there will be increased traffic or pressure for parking in the coastal or other "nice" areas, however for the majority of the country that isn't so scenic or mild in temps, I doubt you will notice much of a change. Between all of the tractor-trailers parked at night on the on and off ramps, in the big dirt parking lots beside gas stations and in larger commercial shopping lots, it would be hard to notice a few more vans/vehicles.

The other factor is the continual "easy-in/easy out" of the lifestyle. There's no way to make an accurate count of new vs quitting vehicle dwellers. I can say that over the 5 years that I have been aware of YT videos on the topic, I've lost track of many content creators. Whether they have quit or just burned out IDK but they are gone. There's always new ones to take their place but that's part of the "easy-in/easy out".

Any big change in the economy, a la 2007-2008 recession/depression will force more people into vehicles. If the current national government does something to "stabilize" or put a floor under incomes then likely people won't stay in vehicles due to the discomfort factor of doing so.

 

[DLTooley]

Certainly class is in effect in highly desirable areas, and this will continue to expand. Presumably so also will safe urban homeless ‘parks’.

My favorite popular camping areas are those with rigs you can tell belong to folks who have gone through the learning curve, like at the RTR.

A well done self build is the best sign of that, but even a minivan with a 10x10 and a clean camp is a good.