We lost a lot of ground around Flagstaff this year

[crofter]

According to this link, the national monument is not open for camping yet. I suppose you are boondocking in coconino NF though?
-crofter

https://www.nps.gov/waca/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

Coconino NF site does not list it as closed, just areas near Sedona. Does list very high fire danger. Link to site.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/activity/coconino/recreation/camping-cabins/?recid=54884&actid=34

For even more info click on Sedona Dispersed Camping Guide under Related Links. Sorry I could not post a direct link. -c

 

[crofter]

Link to online comment form for Coconino NF.   -c

https://www.fs.usda.gov/contactus/coconino/about-forest/contactus

 

[tripper]

"So the appearance of your camp site has a big impact on how you are seen." <-- this is the main problem. Many nomads (several of my friends included) have a tendency to have to much crap in their rig, as soon as they call they throw it all outside to have space (especially the vanners). The stuff they put outside makes it obvious they are not just camping/ vacationing but living full time in rig. Stuff like small washing machines, crates and boxes of random non camping stuff. If a camp looks neat and tidy the ranges generally don't need with you. I generally follow the 2 week rule, and have visited Flagstaff A1 road several times throughout the season and will see the same rigs in the same spot a month later, it's so obvious that they don't move, in positive the rangers know. Most nomads aren't trading the place, but some have campsite that look so trash that people want them out, who wants to camp in the beautiful forest next to a trailer trash looking site.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

this goes on everywhere, but when it spreads out into our beautiful, wide-open spaces, we will lose them eventually. People want to, or have to escape, but some will never be clean about it. All I can think of to do is, keep my own space clean, pick up what others leave behind, and enjoy what I can for now.

 

[crofter]

... tendency to have to much crap in their rig, as soon as they call they throw it all outside to have space (especially the vanners). The stuff they put outside makes it obvious they are not just camping/ vacationing but living full time in rig. Stuff like small washing machines,  crates and boxes of random non camping stuff....

My practice is to use a tent for that stuff, keeps the camp tidy and is an enclosed work area. Also good for drying clothing and wet gear. 

I like Maki's idea of keeping a travel log. Besides receipts for camping, I also include mileage readings at the top of the page, and note down any incidents that happen, like a lion sighting etc. A bound log book is the best. I keep it on the dash.
-crofter

 

[G0ldengirl68]

The tent is an excellent idea to keep things neat, and out of sight

 

[jimindenver]

I would think that it would be prudent to keep the receipts from the other area as they show that you were getting gas, food, etc. Some form of tangible proof that you were out of the area that is in question. My friends had told the ranger that they had been to Flagstaff and a RV park, all the ranger wanted was a little proof.

It really doesn’t take much to make a camp look badly. Most of what is outside my trailer is other peoples things like solar panels and the batteries/fridge that I am trying to give away. I don’t have room for them so 5 good batteries will be turned in for recycling and the brand new thermoelectric cooler will go to goodwill.

 

[highdesertranger]

"and the brand new thermoelectric cooler will go to goodwill."

LOL mine went in the trash can. What a waste of money that thing was. Hindsight tells me I should have gave it to a thrift store.

Highdesertranger

 

[WanderingRose]

When I am in a campground around others, cleaning and ridding out or whatever, I have on occasion left good, usable items propped at the dumpster for whoever wants or needs them to take.

Or in a laundry area with a “free to a good home” sign on them.

A hot plate, a butane burner with extra fuel canisters, storage containers, etc.

Lots of people struggling out there, and free can be important, tho Goodwill is an excellent option.

I have also seen similar items left by others, which is probably where I got the idea.

Slight derailment of this thread, so now please return to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[G0ldengirl68]

Slight derailment of this thread, so now please return to your regularly scheduled programming.

I don't know the thriftstores you all come in contact with, but St. Vincent DePaul, and Salvation Army (but these can vary on prices depending on area) sell cheaper than Goodwills out West where I live.  Also, I know for a fact that St. Vs gives away items to those in need, on a regular basis. You have to hit their drop-off time here, and days of the week as ours is closed on Sat and Sun.  Either not enough staff or they are not on the main highway, no good signage either.

 

[jimindenver]

I have to tell you that it's frustrating.

A fella that visited out site in Walnut Canyon visited our site in Parks today. He was part of the discussions about the rangers, the closures, what the rules are and how to act.

I asked him where he landed after Walnut Canyon. He said Bellemont. Bellmont is in Coconino where the rules are 14 days out of 30. He said he knew but he was hoping the ranger didn't recognize him or write a ticket. Actually he started out in Sedona, then Willard Springs, then Walnut Canyon and now Bellemont, all in the Coconino forest. Even moving every two weeks that's two months straight in the same forest and they got his plate in Sedona. The stupid thing is a few minutes longer on 66 and he would have been in Kaibab and there were plenty of open spots.

We are going to lose this fight because we are our own worst enemy and education doesn't help.

 

[bullfrog]

I'm almost sort of hoping the caravans start up soon and get people forming the habit of moving with small groups to places where they can stay legally for two weeks. Maybe the social aspect will motivate people to form better habits. There are plenty of jobs and volunteer positions that allow you to stay in one place for longer periods of time legally if that is what you want.

 

[desert_sailing]

These issues are one of the biggest negatives to mobile living for me.

I always think it is best to err on the side of less regulation and folks need to be far more responsible for themselves.

Laws and regulations should benefit the people not restrict them. It sucks that many folks just don't gaf.

How do we encourage good behavior with out legislation??.
Bullfrog nailed it with " the social aspect will motivate people to form better habits."

of the people, by the people, FOR the people 

I'm now really interested in how the 9th circuit ruling in Martin vs Boise applies to blm and forest land et. al. It is a federal ruling and those are public lands....hmm

 

[66788]

Not sure if this has been said in this thread or not..

But, something that would help all of us..

If we see it, take care of it, don't just leave it because someone else was not responsible enough..

I think if this is done, authorities will see the efforts..

and in all honestly, if we all chip in, and set the example.. I am willing to bet you would see change on this subject for the better

I see you are a "glass half full" person.   As the economy worsens and the 8 million people who have not paid rent move out, expect a monster wave of ignorant RVers and campers to flood public land, and probably a lot of private land as well.

What just happened in the Coconino National Forest is just the beginning.   I'm seeing POS RVs that are beyond scrapping condition parked at the local  Walmart.

Homeless Hoovervilles will spring up everywhere and feces and urine will be noticeable.

I don't think setting a good example will make one rat's ass of a difference to these kind of people.

 

[GotSmart]

Hooverville. 

That is a reference to similar conditions 90 years ago. 

It seems that people do not learn from history. 

The difference today is that there is a mega drought affecting half the country. The rangers do not have goon squads following them to forcibly run everyone out. No roadblocks to keep you from entering a new town. Instant communication on the condition of an area.   

Jim and HDR are voices of reason. I have camped with both, and the camps were spotless upon leaving. 

Follow the rules and respect the land. This too shal pass. Perhaps not as soon as I would like~~~

 

[maki2]

No one is permitted to camp in the NFS areas around Flagstaff at present. Fortunately it should only be a temporary situation until the monsoon rains come which should be soon. However the burned off areas from the current wildfires, if they had dispersed camping within them, will not reopen for camping along with the rest.

Very much looking forward to the camping reopening in Coconino and Kaibab. very enjoyable areas.

In the meantime suggested reading about people displaced and forced into becoming nomads living in their vehicles read "The Grapes of Wrath" by Jonhn Steinbeck. It will be available from most any library and other online sources.

 

[maki2]

The dust bowl years were the ones that had a huge migrant population doing vehicle living and camping in the US.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Arizona closed all state trust lands yesterday (6/25):
https://land.az.gov/state-trust-land-closure

 

[jimindenver]

It's interesting to watch the abuse that is usually spread through out the forest get compacted into the parking lots that allow RV's to over night. I saw leaking dump valves. Generators, outdoor rugs, chairs and tables. Somehow a full trash can doesn't mean find one that isn't full. it means stack your trash next to it so that it can blow all over the place. What a way to be gracious, grateful and respectful to their generous host.

 

[Sen. Van Paul]

Shame. I am brand new to van life and hate to hear this. I have developed a respect for nature and preservation anyway as I've been an avid camper/bushcrafter for many years. My area is also no rife with van dwellers, so that helps. I'm worlds away from the midwest/southwest etc with vast scapes of badlands, desert and BLM land. That helps it would seem.

I have to agree, people basically will not change. It's definitely compounded by the frankly childish notion that, yes, the world is your oyster when you're on the road, shuck away! Take take take. Find a system to exploit, and exploit it. People take the saving money thing WAY too far in my opinion. It transcends resourcefulness and lends itself to outright blind entitlement. Alot of us think the world owes us a living. Wonder why. Lol.

When you're doing a bunch of "little things that don't matter", that's how you end up with less options. Because little things do matter. They add up. Rest assured when you're fisting salt and pepper packets from McDonald's, or grabbing an extra 30 bags everytime you self checkout at a grocery store, its pissing someone off who's noticed. People do not like people who act like that. I know I don't. Your reasons don't matter, everyone's got problems.

This is all perfectly assisting the idea that van lifers (homeless people to most citizens btw, sorry if you don't like it) are irresponsible, dirty dregs on society that suck the life out of any area they stay in. I expect it will inevitably come with the territory to a degree. All I can do is be respectful, clean up after myself and others if needed, and keep it movin.

At the end of the day, anyone that needs to be told to "grow up", past the age of 25, likely never will.