We lost a lot of ground around Flagstaff this year

[rvwandering]

I have deleted the posts bashing specific groups of people and the follow-up posts. Overgeneralization is unfair to everyone.

 

[wanderin.pat]

Jimindenver.... good to know you're still among the living!! Haven't talked to you in a long long time!! And FWIW, keep on reminding people of what is expected of adults. Yeah, people are people and they're never going to change, yadda yadda yadda; but if no one ever calls others out on poor behaviour, then we deserve everything we get. So, lets get together and yak sometimes!!!! Let's hope 2022 is a great year for both of us.

 

[frodo2222]

I called today about a pass for State Parks bullfrog, because I just feel better all'round staying where there are rules, and might be a better chance of them being enforced. I don't know if I could afford full-timing but I'll be checking out prices on some campgrounds that I might want to go to. I don't know what else to say except that there's a lot of good people out there that don't deserve to get shut out because of the few bad apples. :s

I live full time (7 months) of the year in a park for $700 on a permanent spot where one can leave sheds RV or cars year around, NO POWER but we all do great on solar and are very helpful to those that do not know how to https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=snowbird west rv park

 

[DannyB1954]

The problem with picking up after others is they get used to it. I participated in the Ehrenburg Az. clean up this year and gathered 30 bags plus metal scraps.
A county sheriff stopped by one time and asked what I was up to. I told him about the group gathering trash and he seen where I had already cleaned. He said, "now that is different". When he seen I was not a bad guy we had a nice chat. He said to call them if I went into one area as dopers had taken over and said he would keep an eye on me there for my safety. I told him I was packing a 9mm on my hip and he enjoyed that, (Nevada concealed weapons permit is honored there).

 

[gringojhon]

I live full time (7 months) of the year in a park for $700 on a permanent spot where one can leave sheds RV or cars year around, NO POWER but we all do great on solar and are very helpful to those that do not know how to https://www.facebook.com/search/top?q=snowbird west rv park

I know this place. Bob Wells did a V log on it a few years ago.

I'm right down the road in Rocky Point Mexico. Started out with a 30 foot 5th wheel weekend getaway in a small park with other weekenders. Now retired living here full time. Just a quad or bike ride to the beach.

$154.00 a month. Internet $25.00 a month. Electric $60.00 a month. I can easily comfortably live off $500.00 a month and many do.

I had an upper deck built on and a semi enclosed patio. My plan to down size has failed.

I camp on BLM land in Ajo and Marana etc and have decided full time isn't for me. I like stability and creature comforts. My dog and cat are safe and so am I. Not sure why more haven't dome this.

 

[justanothermaroon]

I'm right down the road in Rocky Point Mexico.

Would you care to share the name of this place?

 

[frater secessus]

Saw this clip of some people in a van throwing their trash on someone else's land

In my experience picking up trash with identifying info in it, 100% so far came from businesses or residents of the closest town. Most recent example is trash I picked up on Dec 19th. I watched a guy drive in from Pahrump and dump residential renovation trash in the same BLM ravine several days in a row. Locals drive in, shoot for hours and leave their brass/shells. Or drive in late Friday night, party all night and leave beer cans and used condoms on the ground.

I've seen three abandoned vehicles, all from the closest town according to registration or other visible information inside.

Boondockers cause problems, no doubt, but the majority of the crap I see is from locals and the weekend party crowd.

 

[CosmickGold]

I'm really sorry to hear about this, loosing last for the summer RTR even! I pick up everything around my van each morning, no matter who/where it came from, and think anyone who doesn't is disrespecting not only the environment we share, but also their own vehicle, their own lifestyle, and even their own personal environment. What a shame.

 

[tx2sturgis]

My plan to down size has failed.

Mine did too.

 

[DannyB1954]

Jesus tried to change human nature. It didn't work. There will always be the selfish and lazy. I live in Pahrump Nv. There is no fee to use the land fill. The funding comes out of our property taxes. People still dump in the desert.

 

[RVTravel]

Jesus tried to change human nature. It didn't work.

No. His purpose was to live an example life, give instruction on how to live, and save those who believe in him. He had one follower and now he has tens of millions.

 

[Tam O'Bedlam]

I'm right down the road in Rocky Point Mexico. Started out with a 30 foot 5th wheel weekend getaway in a small park with other weekenders. Now retired living here full time. Just a quad or bike ride to the beach.

$154.00 a month. Internet $25.00 a month. Electric $60.00 a month. I can easily comfortably live off $500.00 a month and many do.

I am curious what this park is?

 

[DannyB1954]

No. His purpose was to live an example life, give instruction on how to live, and save those who believe in him. He had one follower and now he has tens of millions.

He had 12 followers, and we were to follow his example, meaning change our behavior. Guess what, thieves still steal, liars still lie. Technology has changed, human behavior has not. There were good people back then as well.
One thing that never changes is people telling me that I am wrong.

 

[rvwandering]

Please stay on topic and avoid religious debates. Thanks!

 

[WayOutWest]

I have a suggestion as one possible way to try to resolve the issue of overcrowding of public lands by campers.
This may not work as well in terms of "regulation" but more in terms of encouraging certain practices....

As context let me explain my perspective. I've done road trip car-camping on public lands for about 40 years. I do not live full time in a vehicle. I am much less interested in any elaborate camp set-up, or getting a "really nice camping spot", and more interested in the activities I engage in on my outing (hiking, photography, sightseeing), as well as not having too much difficulty just finding a quiet place to spend the night in relative privacy.
I've found it frustrating that a number of places I've frequented as one-night stops to spend the night, over many years, even decades, have become more crowded recently, even to the point where I can barely find a single spot to spend the night.

Just in the sense of prioritizing, I'm of the inclination that it should be easier to find a spot if you're just wanting to spend one or two nights and move on, than if you want to spend weeks or months in the same spot, or switching spots closeby but basically staying in the same area. In other words, I believe that it should take more effort to get more stay time. This is a parallel concept to the general idea that "you get what you pay for", and that one can expect to pay more for more of a product or service. This doesn't translate in an obvious way to free camping, since none of us are paying anything for free camping, but if we think of the effort required to find a spot to camp long term, eg in terms of distance from the main road, possible need to arrange in advance with "reservations", there is a loose parallel we can observe.

Thus, it might be possible to encourage a convention or practice, that (excepting those areas specifically oriented to long stays such as around Quartzite) the longer you want to stay in an area, the further from the main road you would be expected to drive in, and/or the longer you want to stay in an area, the more likely you'd need to make some type of arrangement in advance. I would prefer if this were not regulated, but in areas where rangers are already enforcing 2 week stays, as some have described, then I think it would be more do-able to create a "staggered zone" type of regulation, where areas closest to the main road, were designated for instance as "Zone 1" and you'd be limited to no more than a 3 day stay. In Zone 2, further from the main road, you could stay up to 7 days, for instance. If you drive still further, to Zone 3, you could stay 2 weeks, and in Zone 4, further in still, you could stay 1 month. This assumes that the road does not get worse going in so that the further zones are only accessible to 4 X 4 vehicles, but it is true that with 4WD you will have a heck of a lot more options than the rest of us, generally.

For big RVs which may not be able to get far off the main road, I would like to see more areas developed specifically open to these vehicles so that it's easier for them to get off the road, and also clarify that big RVs cannot go onto many forest roads.

 

[The Wheel Nomad]

It truly makes me sad seeing the state of things out here on the BLM lands. I have been full-time workamping for 5 years now and this week is my first boondocking experience.

We found a nice spot near Dome Rock and on vacation from my full-time workamping gig. We are having a blast but I can see why we are in danger of losing access to these wonderful resources.

Just walking around a few miles from camp from the road to Dome Rock there is trash every where. Not just a piece or two here and there. We're talking full garbage bags, destroyed RV's, and unidentified burned things.

Just from my little experience I see tweakers all around, people that setup a permanent camp and it's an absolute disgusting **** hole, and people that just don't give 2 bananas.

I don't know what the solution is but fear when I'm ready to retire and go full-time boondocking there will be little to no more boondocking available as things seem to be getting worse.

 

[MotorVation]

And then you have my experience. I just left Dome Rock Sunday because it was too crowded for me at that Gypsy Minstrel Caravan thingy and the internet was way too slow. I saw zero trash, zero tweakers. Last year I spent a month at Dome Rock (two separate two-week stays). Zero trash. Zero tweakers.

Right now I'm about 5 miles from Dome Rock and looking at mountain ranges in all four directions, a mostly pristine desert, and a nice sunny sky. There's that.

I have no clue what area you're talking about and while I don't doubt what you're saying I haven't seen it and I've been out here a month so far this winter. Areas close to towns generally get trashed by the locals and homeless camps. I haven't figured out a solution to the homeless problem. Maybe someone in this forum can come up with a plan? After all, we're a bunch of keyboard geniuses.

Hint: a few minivans a year ain't gonna cut it. If it were thousands of vehicles a year given away it wouldn't make a difference to low bottom alcoholics and drug addicts as most surely don't have a driver's license much less an emergency fund

 

[The Wheel Nomad]

And then you have my experience. I just left Dome Rock Sunday because it was too crowded for me at that Gypsy Minstrel Caravan thingy and the internet was way too slow. I saw zero trash, zero tweakers. Last year I spent a month at Dome Rock (two separate two-week stays). Zero trash. Zero tweakers.

Right now I'm about 5 miles from Dome Rock and looking at mountain ranges in all four directions, a mostly pristine desert, and a nice sunny sky. There's that.

I have no clue what area you're talking about and while I don't doubt what you're saying I haven't seen it and I've been out here a month so far this winter. Areas close to towns generally get trashed by the locals and homeless camps. I haven't figured out a solution to the homeless problem. Maybe someone in this forum can come up with a plan? After all, we're a bunch of keyboard geniuses.

Hint: a few minivans a year ain't gonna cut it. If it were thousands of vehicles a year given away it wouldn't make a difference to low bottom alcoholics and drug addicts as most surely don't have a driver's license much less an emergency fund

Everyone's experience will vary. Just walk around a bit in and around the washes you will see full trash bags and God knows what all around. I loaded up my truck with garbage and brought it to the dump. Then said screw it I ain't down here in vacation to pick up after aholes that can not pick up after themselves.

As far as tweakers. I could be wrong but since I have quite a few years of experience dealing with them I doubt it.

 

[John in Montreal]

it might be possible to encourage a convention or practice, that (excepting those areas specifically oriented to long stays such as around Quartzite) the longer you want to stay in an area, the further from the main road you would be expected to drive in

I don't like your idea. I experience the same situation as you. I arrive at a spot I've used before only to find someone else is parked there now.

But unlike you I don't have a permanent address or the financial resources to travel. I stay in the same place because I can't afford to drive around aimlessly looking for a safe place to park.

Your proposal would make people who live in older rigs go further from the road and drive further to get water and groceries. Putting us at greater risk of an expensive breakdown. No thanks.

I believe that it should take more effort to get more stay time. This is a parallel concept to the general idea that "you get what you pay for", and that one can expect to pay more for more of a product or service. This doesn't translate in an obvious way to free camping, since none of us are paying anything for free camping, but if we think of the effort required to find a spot to camp long term, eg in terms of distance from the main road, possible need to arrange in advance with "reservations", there is a loose parallel we can observe.

The inconvenience you experience finding a free place to camp every night is the cost of visiting certain attractions.

I would prefer if this were not regulated, but in areas where rangers are already enforcing 2 week stays, as some have described, then I think it would be more do-able to create a "staggered zone" type of regulation, where areas closest to the main road, were designated for instance as "Zone 1" and you'd be limited to no more than a 3 day stay.

This sounds like zoning. You want to move the junkies to the less desirable areas along with all the poors who can't afford to move their broken down RVs every 72 hours. And the good zones are restricted to genteel folk like yourself who enjoy reliable vehicles and need a certain level of privacy and decorum.

There's nothing wrong with that. But here's another idea. When an area becomes too crowded the agency that owns the land can charge money. You want the best location you have to pay. The revenues can be used to improve roads to the less desirable areas and provide services like water, sewage and garbage removal. You want cleanliness, privacy, security and decorum the proven remedy is the progressive solution of ensuring everyone has access to these things.

 

[MotorVation]

Last year I purposely stayed at Dome Rock twice because there's a camp host and it requires a free permit. I was tired of the weekend ATV people buzzing my camp at Ehrenberg. Seriously, no trash, and it was quiet. I was on the east side of Dome Rock mountain at the time.
This year I was on the other side of the mountain.

Very few, if any, people are going to give the camp host their ID, get a permit then trash the place. It could have happened during the off-season I guess when there's no camp host. Hard sayin,' not knowin'