We lost a lot of ground around Flagstaff this year

[WanderingRose]

This is sad to hear and read about.

Human behavior has been and always will be a determining factor.

Which mean that levying consequences on violators will be the only really effective motivation to secure compliance.

Do your part, support enforcement efforts for those who will not do theirs.

 

[Ravella and X]

My heart breaks every time I talk to someone who brags about overstaying the limits, every time I see a loose dog crap while the owner looks the other way, every time I find whole bags of trash anywhere it shouldn't be or firepits left full of trash.

But just to lift my own spirits a little bit, and maybe someone else's, I have something good to say today...

The busy campground where I am hosting is a Mecca for good campers. The kind who respect the land and the campground rules and really appreciate the opportunity to camp free on our public lands. Sure, there are exceptions. Some people are too self absorbed to be good stewards and good neighbors. Overall though, this place is reminding me that most people are good and try to be good to our public lands.

Leave no trace- even when you have to pick up traces of the inconsiderate bunch.

 

[desert_sailing]

I've always been dismayed over folks refusing to be good stewards of the land.

I'm an avid folfer (disc golf). There are very few real courses on which to play so we visually make a course in any forest or open space to throw the discs.

The disc golfers tend to have longer hair and a more casual appearance.. and your likely to get a whiff of old Mary Jane..
But the self imposed rules of nearly every folfer is to bring a bag and collect any garbage while out enjoying the area.

Maybe if we bring more disc golfers to the forests we would have a cleaner environment.

But... "look at those damn hippies out there smoking the pot, throwing frisbees... and picking up garbage!".. who do they think they are... Alma call the 911!"

 

[user 30781]

^^ Hope the cops get there before they break out the hacky sacks

 

[user 423]

But just to lift my own spirits a little bit, and maybe someone else's, I have something good to say today...

The busy campground where I am hosting is a Mecca for good campers. The kind who respect the land and the campground rules and really appreciate the opportunity to camp free on our public lands.
Leave no trace- even when you have to pick up traces of the inconsiderate bunch.

Happily, that was my experience during 4 days spent at a NFS campground in NM. The only bad vibe was...you guessed it....locals that thought it was OK to party until 1am on Sat. night. Amazingly, they didn't trash their site out though. The case of beer cans were properly put into the trash bins.

 

[Cammalu]

My heart breaks every time I talk to someone who brags about overstaying the limits, every time I see a loose dog

Especially if the sneaky dog gets thru the fence somehow out of desperation to see her new best friend and runs directly into your camp Ravella every-time because you spoil her. You’ve got to quit stealing my dog!

Why my dog works so hard to sneak out:

 

[user 30781]

That doggo is in love <3

 

[Ravella and X]

Pfft. You trying to tell me that Sam is a DOG????

Prove it

Also, by loose dogs, I mean the ones whose owners purposely let them roam and crap all over -- not the temporary escapee.

Tell Sam I'm in good shape for walkies in Q next winter!

 

[user 423]

That doggo is in love <3

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who calls them "doggos"

 

[crofter]

....But the self imposed rules of nearly every folfer is to bring a bag and collect any garbage while out enjoying the area.

....Maybe if we bring more disc golfers to the forests we would have a cleaner environment.....

So thats why Dabney SRA is so clean. I wondered who was doing it.
-crofter

 

[MGfromBC]

In British Columbia we've just been through a heat wave.  The small community that broke the all time Canadian high temperature record three days in a row was engulfed in a wildfire and burned to the ground on the third day.  I don't like heat.  I ran away.  Altitude and forest.  

The Province maintains hundreds of Recreation Sites all over the province.  They vary in size and fees.  I stayed at a place with i table, 1 fire pit, 1 outhouse and no fees.  It had shade and a creek.  I took out what I took in and I even found a few (very few) other things to take out.  No radio or phone either and after music on the first day I didn't even bother with that.

When the long weekend is over and all the crazies go home I think I'll look for some more places that are just coming out from under the snow and might need to be tidied up.

 

[maki2]

Not seeing any crazies this long weekend. The National Forest areas around Flagstaff and Williams are still closed to camping. I was at the Grand Canyon National Park yesterday. While not empty of visitors the only line I saw was about 5 persons long waiting to get ice cream cones. No traffic jam line waiting to get into the. Park. I drove right up to the entry booth to show my pass. No problem finding parking in the lots right in front of the venues. No crowds on the rim walkway either. What a great time to visit The Grand Canyon Park... if you can find a place to camp.

 

[Zmann]

...not to worry...I got it back...

 

[desert_sailing]

There has been so much discussion about people who trash public lands and pissing off private land owners.

Saw this clip of some people in a van throwing their trash on someone else's land while under cover of darkness.

Do you think the van owners will now modify their behavior??

short 24 second clip.

 

[user 423]

^^
Makes nice viewing and I can understand why they did what they did but violence wasn't called for.

Hold them for the sheriff.

You can only imagine how the civil suit(s) or criminal charges against the farmer might have played out.

That's if it happened in the U.S. anyway.

The one guy might have been killed by the van toppling over.

 

[desert_sailing]

Ya.. I think the farmer went well above what was needed. I'm wondering what the rest of the video shows.

I'd rather hit them in the wallet. Tort law is awesome. I can't even begin to tell you how satisfying it is as a private person to file a garnishment against a person with whom you have a court judgement.

The take away for me in this video is that you never know what kind of whackadoodle you may encounter ..oh and not pass my crap to others..

 

[jacqueg]

What the farmer/tractor did was also wrong. But - I admit it, I'm laughing anyway. Does that make me a bad person?

People who can afford one of those vans can afford a fucking dump fee.

 

[66788]

poetic justice.

 

[JoshPigeonFeather]

I am sorry to hear that areas in northern AZ are closed now, but someday they could reopen and at least they did not burn down. Remember Yarnell and other towns that have burned. All should consider the safety and environmental impacts of discarding trash and of burning a campfire.

My fave area to camp host in Oregon on Mount Hood was destroyed by fire last season including plants and animals, closed many access roads and closed a highway, campgrounds, and day areas closed. The threat of fire is real. On the 4th of July weekend, I have put out many campfires some hot enough to melt metal. Camp hosts in remote areas do not have a hose. Water is hand pumped and hauled to put out all those smouldering fire rings. Consider NOT having a campfire.

Trash is a big deal threatening the lives of wild animals. In the stomachs of birds and wild animals can be found many items of trash that cause the animal to starve to death. Even waste such as spilled food needs to be cleaned up as in can hurt the animals who consume it, or create a dependance on human camp areas for food. And yes trash is ugly also.

You can compact trash to fit into a very small space by stepping on it after filling the bag.  Spend a half hour per day picking up trash as a meditation. Focus on getting the shiny bits that birds are attracted to. Check fire rings that you pass by for heat or trash. Teach clean camping skills to others.
-crofter

Link to closure map, Hood.

https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mthood/fire/?cid=fseprd835619

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Single use plastic should have been banned 50 years ago. Grocery stores, even ones professing environmental consciousness, pack everything in plastic clam-shells. People buy fruit juice made from concentrate in a gallon plastic bottle instead of buying the frozen concentrate (used to be sold in biodegradable cardboard cans) and making their own "from concentrate" juice. Sometimes I think humanity deserves to go the way of the dinosaurs due the their selfishness towards every other life form (including other humans) on the planet.

 

[JoshPigeonFeather]

I’ve been concerned for some time that the steady increase in vehicle dwellers was going to negatively impact the lifestyle for everyone, for many reasons.

It’s good to remind everyone to be a responsible adult out there, but the fact is not everyone is a responsible adult nor cares one whit about how their actions affect others.

I don’t know that there is a good way to remind irresponsible others that there’s more than just them out there, as people like that generally don’t take well to criticism.

In my experience.

That said, I would sure like to hear others thoughts on how to address this.

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I'm favoring regular pay per night campgrounds with a host on site. As long as I'm going to be crammed in like a sardine, at least there's someone to try and enforce noise laws and the area has fire clearance and you're not likely to step in someone's pile of crap since there's a latrine of some sort. You don't have squatter defending the spot he's been parked for two years with a gun. And, as a senior, I get half off at federally managed campgrounds.