How soon will electric or hybrid vans/RVs be common?

[Jim_Rockford]

Why does anyone want a coal burning vehicle with little to no range ?

 

[1shemp]

Hey,I think I remember some of the people on this discussion.Wasn't it you who told the Wright brothers that an airplane could never fly?And wasn't it you who told NASA that a man would never go to the moon?And wasn't it you who said no one could ever power a household with solar?And wasn't it you who said the human genome would never be sequenced?Oh yes,I remember you.

 

[lavaroxx]

I've been thinking seriously about buying a camper van or RV. I've been a little hesitant though as I wonder just how quickly (or not) electric powered vans and RVs will become common. I don't want to make a major investment and then be stuck with old technology before too many years have gone by. I noticed recently Tesla announced the Tesla Semi. I realize even as electric powered RVs become a thing, it doesn't mean they will be affordable.

What do you think? How soon will electric or hybrid vans/RVs be common? Is the possibility giving any of you pause on a van or RV purchase?

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green...ose-with-huge-plan-for-evs-in-every-category/

 

[deryk_the_gypsy]

sadly we only live so long and first it comes out for the military then a few years later to the rich, then eventually to us regular folks so might be a few years unless you do it yourself

 

[tx2sturgis]

Texas is making plans to spend almost 500 million dollars of federal funding over the next 5 years to put in a bunch of EV charging stations all over the state, not just in metro areas. These new charging stations will accommodate EVs with trailers and campers.

Amazing.

 

[Gypsyjoe#1]

Heres one thor is toting and the chinese have already got a hybrid I can't find the video on, but who knows how long before they will be exporting them. If you can find the video on them, they are one wonderful setup

 

[tx2sturgis]

I may have to eat my words on this one! But I still do NOT see them being COMMON in my lifetime. Yes, they are out there....yes, you can buy them, if you have enough money and your range requirements are modest.

Yes, every RV show from Boston to San Diego has E-RVs on display. I get that.

Common? well that depends on your definition. MY definition of 'common' for an all-electric RV will be when they comprise around 25% of the total RV's in every RV park and campground. One or two here and there is not what I would call 'common'...in fact, that is the very definition of UN-common.

When market saturation is around 25%, then at that point, I would say, they are 'common'.

But I don't think that will happen in the next 15 years or so. By then I will be 80. And I'm fairly certain I wont care, and I wont be shopping for one anyway!

 

[peteg59]

In time the technology will emerge to the point of viability over IC technology.
"In time" being the key words!!!

 

[RonDean]

Someone posted about a coal-burning rig with no range. I assume he/she is referring to if an EV gets it juice from a coal energy plant. There is some truth to that. But it just means we need to stop burning coal to make electricity. I have also seen some support for Hydrogen vehicles, and that would (probably) be a lot cleaner than IC vehicles. We would still be chained to "fuel" stations of some sort. Whereas, with some improvement in planning and technology, it is conceivable that with a pure EV, we could collect enough of our own energy directly from the sun to make us truly independent from fuel producers (countries or corporations.) That is worth working toward.

In the meantime, I see more delivery companies are buying electric delivery vans. At some point they will become used and for sale to the likes of us. By then, maybe solar panels and batteries might be just good enough to keep us on the road. Maybe only at 100 or so miles a day, but when that is the option that saves me from paying Exxon or Russia, I'll take it.

 

[WVWildflower]

Here's my camping setup in the Tesla. We have a 12v refrigerator in the subtrunk and leave it in camp mode all night, which runs the refrigerator and air conditioning. I had it plugged into 50A service for a few days, but it will use about 6% of the battery per night.

https://www.tesla.com/modely/design#overview

 

[WVWildflower]

Im sitting at a best western in a town of 10k ppl well away from any interstate and even it has 4 super chargers. Theres 1000's of places to boondock, idyllic places, within 40 miles. An EV could spend a whole summer here in perfect weather and recharge every supply run no problem. Migrating south along I-15 for winter has stations every few miles.

Search for charge stations on google maps....they are everywhere now at least along main routes.

Not to mention you can use 120v at campgrounds

Given suspension upgrades a current tesla sedan could pull 12,000lbs and not notice it. They make more torque than a 3500 diesel truck.

The Tesla MY can tow 3,500 lbs. The MX can tow 5,000 lbs. It's not towing 12,000 lbs. The sedans, the M3 and MS, can tow 2,000 lbs. You really aren't supposed to tow with it though- the hitches are for the MY and MX. You charge on 50A at a campground and will get around 30 miles per hour. See attached. This is our Tesla and Prius at the campground. The Prius is attached to the 120v. The Tesla is attached to the 50A.

Our first night out ever in the Tesla was at a Cracker Barrel since the campground wouldn't let us stay since we didn't have a tent or an RV. They wouldn't let you camp in your car.

(This is a Model Y Performance. Our camping setup goes 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds

 

[WVWildflower]

One of the basic problems now with EVs is the cost of battery replacement at the end of its useful life, say, 100,000 miles or so....that cost can easily exceed the value of the used vehicle.

So you really need to add that replacement cost to the equivalent cost-per-mile when compared to gasoline, diesel, CNG, hydrogen fuels, etc.

I see many of these electric vehicles have published equivalent miles-per-gallon cost, using electricity, at values exceeding 100 miles per gallon. Sounds great, until you need to buy a very expensive battery in 5 or 10 years...

Or, the resale value goes to nothing, or near nothing, because the expensive battery needs to be replaced by the new owner.

Hybrids make a bit more sense to me, but they ain't cheap either, and they STILL use a battery, AND need normal maintenance that any internal combustion vehicle needs.

Many states are grappling with the possible future loss of road fuel taxes, because EV owners aren't paying any. You can bet the states will figure out a way to make them pay their fare share.

Some states have talked about VMT...Vehicle Miles Traveled. Pay for the miles you drove.

Seems fair to me, on the surface...but governments seem to have a way of messing things up.

Meanwhile I'll keep pumping gasoline into my V8 powered pickup.

A Tesla NCA battery is built to last 300k to 500k miles. The LFP battery (only on the M3 RWD) should get double that.

Battery replacement is 15k to 20k.

It cost 3k to replace our Prius battery at 495k miles (not a typo).

 

[WVWildflower]

Put affordability aside, Tesla uses 85 kWh battery pack weighs 1,200 lb (540 kg) and contains 7,104 lithium-ion battery cells on model 3. Problem with lithium-ion battery is that it's not stable as lithium-iron. If it overheats during charge cycle, it can catch on fire. Same goes with during the use. That's why they have built-in cooling system for the battery on Tesla vehicle and it seat in the bottom of the car. Second is the weight. In order to have full electric Semi, RV, Vans and other larger vehicles are weight of the battery. Larger vehicles such as semi trucks and large vans will be carrying more in battery weight than your typical payload. Third is distance to travel. You couldn't hookup solar to charge batteries. You need charging station depending on the payload carried but no more that 300 miles using car verse larger vehicle interpolation based on battery weight in the cars.

I don't think there will be full EV for semi truck and large vehicles. However, hybrid semi truck and large vehicles do exist since main component is fuel and not fuel cells.

The Model 3 RWD has a LFP (Lithium Iron Phophate) battery. The battery size varies based on the model.

The M3 RWD has a 60kWh battery. The M3 LR and M3P have an 80kWh battery.

The MS and MX are on the same platform, and the battery is 100kWh.

 

[tx2sturgis]

A Tesla NCA battery is built to last 300k to 500k miles. The LFP battery (only on the M3 RWD) should get double that.

Battery replacement is 15k to 20k.

It cost 3k to replace our Prius battery at 495k miles (not a typo).

My statement that you quoted was from 2018 and things have changed a bit in 4 years. But, battery replacement cost is still a factor in most EV's as the battery ages and loses some of the range it had when it was new.

 

[WVWildflower]

My statement that you quoted was from 2018 and things have changed a bit in 4 years. But, battery replacement cost is still a factor in most EV's as the battery ages and loses some of the range it had when it was new.

In 2018, the batteries were 75kWh for the Model X 75D, and 100 kWh for the Model X 100D. The MS is on the same platform.

The Model Y didn't exist in 2018. The Model 3 LR and M3P has an 80.5 kWh battery.

 

[gizmotron]

Texas is making plans to spend almost 500 million dollars of federal funding over the next 5 years to put in a bunch of EV charging stations all over the state, not just in metro areas.

From Boondocking to Boondoggling in just five years. And the best part is that it will drive up the cost of the Kilowatt Hour. I love magical thinking. It's my favorite topic. People are the very best at it. The awards all go to the small group or individual that can sucker the most people most of the times. Did you see that picture of a coal car at a railhead dumping a new supply of electricity at the powerplant for EV progress. It's wonderful. Cool, clean, Carbon, for your $60,000+ great outdoor wilderness experience. And those insider traders are doing fine too. It's so good. I just want to sit around the campfire and roast my wieners and warm my buns.

 

[tx2sturgis]

From Boondocking to Boondoggling in just five years.

Yep, and coal-powered EVs WILL be paying their fair share of road taxes...some day...or at least, we can hope.

This new full scale government build-out of the EV charging network is mostly courtesy of VW. As part of the dieselgate fiasco, one of the settlement terms is that Volkswagen is paying billions for the new EV charging network.

Ironic, isnt it, that selling all those 'dirty' diesel cars is helping to provide an infrastructure (called Electrify America) for dirty coal-burning EVs.

Remember, the EV is not really zero emission.

We didn't actually remove the pollution, we just moved it.

 

[Sky]

In New Zealand we are starting to have the first ones, I woudnt buy one until they are on the road for a while.

Did yours in NZ originate from Germany? All I know is Germany was the first to built out a solar RV several years ago.

 

[Sky]

I've been thinking seriously about buying a camper van or RV. I've been a little hesitant though as I wonder just how quickly (or not) electric powered vans and RVs will become common. I don't want to make a major investment and then be stuck with old technology before too many years have gone by. I noticed recently Tesla announced the Tesla Semi. I realize even as electric powered RVs become a thing, it doesn't mean they will be affordable.

What do you think? How soon will electric or hybrid vans/RVs be common? Is the possibility giving any of you pause on a van or RV purchase?

Good luck no crystal ball ad since covid greed has increased to such a point as a diy I am not playing but looking to build out my own ev. The way they are cranking the prices up is outrageous and for me it is a matter of not can I afford but I refuse to support. I have been on solar for 25 yrs thanks to an uncle who was a real engineer who started me on it. So all I can say is if you have any giddy up past being a consumer slave you could probably project your own and do it better for less if you have any interest in that. Best of luck ~

 

[Morgana]

Ironic, isnt it, that selling all those 'dirty' diesel cars is helping to provide an infrastructure (called Electrify America) for dirty coal-burning EVs.

Remember, the EV is not really zero emission.

We didn't actually remove the pollution, we just moved it.

Well, you moved some (not all) of it, temporarily.

Cleaner fuels are making up a bigger part of the electricity mix all the time. Things that seemed like pie in the sky even 5-10 years ago are commonplace now. Progress toward clean energy has been huge (though Covid and the attack on Ukraine have set it back).

So even in a worst-case scenario (the electricity that fuels your particular EV comes from coal this year), you are still laying the groundwork for the day when clean electricity predominates.

Are EVs a magical solution that works by itself even if people keep screwing up everything else?
Of course not. Nothing is.
Are they a major part of a larger effort to clean up the way we get energy? Yes.

That’s point #1.

Point #2 is that it’s highly debatable whether coal > electricity > EV really is dirtier than gas > conventional car. I’ve seen plausible arguments both ways, and I am not going to get into another cherry-picked-statistics food-fight here by listing any.

But here’s a cool site where you can look up what fuels go into the electricity at your location: https://www.epa.gov/egrid/power-profiler#/HIOA