How soon will electric or hybrid vans/RVs be common?

[tx2sturgis]

24 330 watt panels is almost 8kw, not 4. and going to take a lot more than 2 days to recharge.
from their site

{snip}

lol, "on paper" "perfect sunlight" "should", that there makes for a lot of "maybes"

my guess is it is going to be more like 30 hours and considering 6 hours of charging a day is a good bench mark, looks like a good work week (5 days) to recharge. 

I thought they said in the video I watched that they had 4000 watts of solar...maybe it is 8000...but I didnt drill deep in the website to ferret out the specs.
 
And yes, I'm very well aware of practical and real world differences between optimal and actual power produced. That goes back to my much earlier statements responding to the original thread title and OP. Plus, flexible panels generally have a short lifespan, often less than 2 years. I can buy a LOT of gas or diesel compared with replacing panels and batteries as needed on a van like this.

i ran out of fingers and toes to add it all up, but i dont think i could afford it on disability and food stamps...

Me neither.

I tossed this information into the mix to show just exactly what is required, (money, hardware, and very short range per day) if a van-dweller or RVer wants to entertain the fanciful idea of a completely solar/electric rig for extended travel away from the grid.

Maybe SOME day we will have it, but again, it wont be common, and it wont be anytime soon.

 

[tx2sturgis]

They made it from the arctic circle to Vancouver, BC (1200 miles) in < 4 months.  That works out to about 10 miles a day.

{snip}

Here is a solar car that is supposed to be coming out in 2019; save your nickels boys and girls, only $136,000:

Yep, totally impractical for most of the typical van-dwellers today.

And that Lightyear marketing sounds a lot like the Elio introduction from a few years back.

In other words, my money is staying where it is for the foreseeable future.

 

[highdesertranger]

be careful about only hearing what you want to hear and believing what you want to believe. highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

If the researchers and engineers and manufacturers can develop panels with double or triple the efficiency of the typical solar panels we buy at around $1 a watt or less, and battery technology improves greatly, and costs come down, then yep...things will change, but I doubt they will make huge improvements quickly. 

Incremental improvements are to be expected, of course.

 

[bullfrog]

If you live 20 years behind the times, I believe the quote was " If the world ends I want to be in Kentucky because it will happen there 20 years later!" works really well in cases like this. In 1998 solar what you could find was expensive and anything electric transportation wise was mainly large scale industrial or just being offered to the public. I'm still upset because 40 year old Honda cars went as far or farther than todays electrics for much less money and instead of being futher developed were morphed into something that people wanted to buy instead of something that people needed. As long as there is a demand and buyers it will eventually be built but it may just take 20 years and still cost more than most want to pay while creating the most profit.

 

[Dan 1]

Yep, it's gonna be a bit of a challenge to install charging stations everywhere they are needed....the infrastructure is just not there yet.

Until the recharging infrastructure, that "tx2sturgis" mentions, Electric Nomadic Vehicles will have to rely on solar panels and wind generators for recharging. Though charging sockets should be included in the circuitry for when the Nomad is in settled areas.
I wonder, if the driving distance (per day...week...month?) was determined by information harvested from as many Nomads as possible and then an average of this information was made, if we could get a workable idea of an acceptable travel distance capacity for an electric Nomadic Vehicle? This mileage research should also take into consideration the "primitive", or "off" road distances too.

 

[Elbear1]

Im sitting at a best western in a town of 10k ppl well away from any interstate and even it has 4 super chargers. Theres 1000's of places to boondock, idyllic places, within 40 miles. An EV could spend a whole summer here in perfect weather and recharge every supply run no problem. Migrating south along I-15 for winter has stations every few miles.

Search for charge stations on google maps....they are everywhere now at least along main routes.

Not to mention you can use 120v at campgrounds

Given suspension upgrades a current tesla sedan could pull 12,000lbs and not notice it. They make more torque than a 3500 diesel truck.

 

[Dan 1]

Good Friday Morning, "highdesertranger". I was cheered to see this post of yours. I'm really glad that you decided to share this idea. I have given some Thought, about this "quick change" idea too. It was in the context of electric lightweight hotrods, but now I can imagine this solution being applied to lightweight Nomad Vehicles. This just might be of special application and benefit to the "Minimalist Nomad Clans" of the Modern Nomad Movement.

 

[Dan 1]

Hello "mariasman" You shared: "[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]A relatively low power electric drive motor properly geared could drive a van or RV at low speeds for a few miles each day - sort of like a modern covered wagon. Indeed, a cargo trailer might be driven in this way across BLM land, and this would not be terribly difficult to configure. This is an interesting idea that seems outlandish at first glance, but may just be a practical alternative for a handful of folks."

I really like the direction of these Thoughts. There are electric motors that can be mounted directly on the wheels of ightweight vehicles...in production and use. I think this development would support the four wheel drive need of your idea. [/font]

 

[Cammalu]

Bullfrog in the 80s I got 61mpg on the highway in my Honda CRX HF. I’m car shopping now trying to find something tiny enough I can tow and looking at the little Honda Fit... I’ll get around 30 something.. what a bunch of crap... I’m mad too!

I wanted a Prius but they no longer make the little short model and I have to stick it in a cargo trailer.

I can’t find anything.

Remember the VW Rabbits that got a jillion miles per gallon? My sis had one

 

[Dan 1]

I like the idea of a slow, solar powered, desert crawler, with maybe a gas or diesel engine to boost the power in hybrid mode for quicker travel on pavement....

You might be on to something there.

Ahhh…"Kindred Thinkers". Pleased to see you, "tx2sturgis" and "mariasman".

 

[HalfShadows]

Electric car camping test.  Towing a overland trailer. The new pickups that are coming out are not suppose to have a ramatic change in in miles per charge while towing. Check it out.

 

[HalfShadows]

Here is another video of Tesla X towing a horse trailer test

 

[KarlH]

I like the idea of a slow, solar powered, desert crawler, with maybe a gas or diesel engine to boost the power in hybrid mode for quicker travel on pavement....

A guy I know in California was talking about doing something like that a few years ago: Use the roof and the awning for solar panels, and just don't try to go 300 miles per day. Park for a while to relax and recharge. I kinda liked it.

 

[KarlH]

... I wonder just how quickly (or not) electric powered vans and RVs will become common.

RVs have simpler powertrains and bigger fuel tanks than the cars a Model S or Model 3 compete against. So the cost of replacing the fuel with batteries is higher, and the savings from simplifying the powertrain are lower. On the other hand, the fuel savings should be greater.

Another thing to remember is that an RV will have poorer aerodynamics and less efficient regenerative braking than a luxury car. (Regeneration depends on having a motor with high reluctance relative to the mass of the vehicle, so under-powered vehicles can't recover as much energy when they stop.)

 

[Ticklebellly]

Friend with an EV recently noted that he had an extra 15 miles range in the Electron Tank at the bottom of a long hill compared to the reading at the start of the hill. Minuscule running costs and no more Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) servicing costs need to be factored into life costing of EV over ICE.

Two specific issues I already see with the uptake of EV over ICE is the continued talk of Hybrids rather than full EV, and the physical layout/ arrangement of charging stations that seem to favour car size and length vehicles.

Another comment not so relevant to Electric RVs, but many a company car park in Japan has a connector at each parking space and employees are encouraged to charge at work then take the fully charged EV battery power home to use as domestic power. Extend that thinking to using the vehicle power bank to power the Air Con overnight when you camp in the boonies. Add some solar and LiFePo4 batteries in the same fashion as people use them now, and any Rubber Tramp should be thinking about an EV in future plans.

 

[Dan 1]

Just read at "Yahoo" that two new varieties of Electric Eels have just been found in the Amazon Basin. One of these is "higher voltage" than previously known type. I don't suppose there is any way Nomads could have some of these sparky critters in their water tanks...that are circuited to batteries? Or maybe in water storage tanks that are with wells? Making the water storage tank a charging station?

Well. Probably not, but even stupid ideas have some value...as to "process of elimination".

 

[KarlH]

Friend with an EV recently noted that he had an extra 15 miles range in the Electron Tank at the bottom of a long hill compared to the reading at the start of the hill.  Minuscule running costs and no more Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) servicing costs need to be factored into life costing of EV over ICE.

Have you looked at the recent Consumer Reports maintenance cost surveys for newer vehicles? Quite a few required no service in the first year or two and were averaging well around $50 per year after several years of driving. Tesla's annual check-up costs $600.

As for fuel costs, how many miles are you going to put on a sedan in a year? And do you live in an area with high gas taxes? It's a big issue if you live in Washington (speaking from personal experience) or California, where gas taxes serve the same role as London's congestion tax; but there are quite a few places with better air quality, less congestion and <$2.50 gas.

I used to work at an R&D company that was an early adopter of variable frequency drives and solid-state voltage regulation for brushless motors (the same system used to drive electric cars). There were very few moving parts, but that didn't make them cheap or maintenance-free. The transistors in the controllers decay over time due to a phenomenon called dopant drift. Electrolytic capacitors also die after a while, and they can blow up if you charge them after leaving them discharged for a long time. It's a pain to clean up, and a lot of soldering afterward to fix it. And the motor poles are made of a large number of laminations of grain oriented electrical steel, which needs to have very low levels of carbon, aluminum and sulfur - not easy because carbon is needed for smelting and aluminum is needed to remove other impurities. The alternatives are cobalt-based alloys that are even more expensive.

Another comment not so relevant to Electric RVs, but many a company car park in Japan has a connector at each parking space and employees are encouraged to charge at work then take the fully charged EV battery power home to use as domestic power.  Extend that thinking to using the vehicle power bank to power the Air Con overnight when you camp in the boonies.  Add some solar and LiFePo4 batteries in the same fashion as people use them now, and any Rubber Tramp should be thinking about an EV in future plans.

That's a good point. Also a lot quieter than running a generator, and fewer oil changes.

 

[Ticklebellly]

The British armed forces has announced it will be using a battery power propelled tank in about 15 years. The Brits also have a solar recharged drone that stays aloft for months at a time. Again, no talk of hybrids. I suspect my next RV will be electric.

 

[KarlH]

The British armed forces has announced it will be using a battery power propelled tank in about 15 years.

Do you have a hyperlink for that? All I see is a 2012 press release from BAE Systems about a hybrid light armored vehicle comparable to a U.S. Bradley or a Russian BMP. (It looks like they didn't build a prototype.) And BAE is in the middle of a major upgrade to the Challenger series of heavy tanks, so presumably Britain is planning to use conventional power for a while longer.

The Brits also have a solar recharged drone that stays aloft for months at a time.  Again, no talk of hybrids.

NASA did something like that in the '90s. Kinda neat, and flying above the jetstream means that they don't need a lot of power to loiter in one place.