Efficiency in a van electrical system?

[CNC rg]

3,000 watts is a lot of power. Probably a generator will be required to meet your needs. I’m sure there are systems out there with new battery technologies that rhetorically make it possible but it will be extremely expensive and difficult to keep batteries charged.

I used 3k watts as that seems like the norm in most of the videos I have watched. I plan on basing the actual final size off the requirements of the most thirsty appliance in the system.

 

[CNC rg]

To give a little more information on what I am thinking for this project and how that applies to the topic.

Currently, I am working full-time while working on both an associates in App Development and a Bachelor's in Enterprise Tech Integration (ETI). These will both fulfill personal goals for me that I couldn't accomplish when I was younger, and also before children. My background is in R&D engineering, machining (manual/CNC), fabricating, and 3D design.

The plan/goal: I am looking at designing and building my own custom van as a part of my first retirement. With my experience(s), and degree areas I am hoping to be able to transition to being a digital nomad where my plan is to begin a "second career" as well as freelance work with the freedom to only have to work as much or as little as I choose.

My desire is to build out the van myself using my experience in engineering, custom home building, and other trades. I plan on basing most of it on 80/20 extrusions as I have used them a fair amount in the past and they are extremely versatile. I am currently spending some spare time designing the build in Fusion360 and could post some screenshots if there is any interest.

 

[CNC rg]

Yes, good point, it usually makes much better sense to power large intermittent loads such as a microwave or an electric skillet with a generator, or, shore power.

I was considering the use of a remote start generator on a hitch rack mount enclosure for “emergencies”, or in times when I have excessive draw. I was also was thinking this could be useful in the event I come across someone in need of assistance to get them back in the game, or if I need to run corded power tools without drawing on the main van system.

 

[CNC rg]

This……
I’m a minimalist but if one wants to go maximalist it’s Generator time or a really huge power station system or both.

(maybe consider living in a house?) ducks
jonny boi

I am working my way towards minimalism but as with anything that takes time, and I have to define what minimalism means at my own personal level. I am looking at the van as "my house" the same way people like to plant flowers and make improvements to their static homes., I feel this way about a van home. One of the most interesting and transformative things I have read is Plato's cave, very eye-opening.

 

[CNC rg]

Laptops are usually ~DC 19V at the input. You absolutely do not need an inverter. I go from 12V to 19V using a DC boost converter that is far more efficient. I think it was ~$30 on Amazon, for ~400W.

Same with your monitors. Some will run on 12V which is ideal and this voltage doesn't need to be exact. Make sure to size your wires for minimal loss.

I would love to be able to just use a auto plug to be able to connect my laptop to the van system, and plan to explore this option as currently my "brick" itself weighs about 3 or so pounds and is pretty hefty.

 

[CNC rg]

Your laptop brick is converting 110v to DC. That's it's entire function in life. Most likely you can find a DC laptop adapter for your model. It might be aftermarket, but they work well.

Monitors are the same depending on what you're powering. Give us an idea of what you're planning on using.

The floor heating is cool, but power hungry and inefficient. Consider a small diesel heater.

You can absolutely have more than one inverter as @tx2sturgis mentioned.

Once you determine what AC needs you'll have that are high draw, you'll know what you need for your large inverter. Cooking appliances seen to be the majority of larger inverter needs.

If you make a list of AC items you think you'll have, we can give you better info.

Based on various responses to this thread I will definitely be investigating ways to avoid needing transformer bricks for laptops, monitors, etc. The idea of having as many things on 12v is way more appealing than massive amounts of “power bricks” all over the place. Love your tagline and may "adopt it"

 

[CNC rg]

Like mine, it sounds like the OP has a gaming laptop, and it's hard to find a DC laptop adapter that will handle the watts.

Here is a boost converter for 12 to 19V that will handle 380W:



https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Converter-Regulator-Transformer-Waterproof/dp/B01MQJ4IJJ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=16LFR12QK4W4Q&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.W4m2KAjAUIRSgCtjXXAXap9pxv2VkOEzx8_X349y3Dlkjl4qk_UV3UIT2QA4FTukJdZIVSFEf9RmXP1EnkxYpnO_k-KL24Yj9ep5nz4Kic1etSr44bs5_9u85WHP1qAQJFhTqT0MQdcuLAmAYqXgK90Dg9lD0yV_Vy_g7uD6CyhleomD9B5KWr5JYHe1baa1Al3ti-pxK_Y38SgTXYmsJr31Vpj-xwDBDeCAptfUS_4.iialyNUPed0BkGkuL88S9DIBwUWaD0KkXFlfJAPD9ZA&dib_tag=se&keywords=boost+converter+12v+19v&qid=1723654696&sprefix=boost+converter+12v+19v,aps,214&sr=8-6

It is a Legion 5 pro with NVIDIA graphics, and 64Gb/RAM. I don't believe I could run with less considering how well this machine has performed. It is my do all machine from coding to 3D solid modeling and everything in between including gaming.

 

[CNC rg]

That booster would do the trick. And there are some DC adapters that should handle the load.

Hey OP, if you give us a model number for your laptop we can look into it.

Legion 5 pro 64Gb RAM, RTX 2060 Gb video card, 230w power brick. It is a beast and I love it. It has done anything I have asked to do so far. I can't say the same for Lenovo tech support, thankfully I have eBay and am my own tech support...lol.

 

[CNC rg]

Relax, cut the cord physically and mentally. Just because you do CNC work that does not mean you need a bunch of electrical, circuit board controlled smart devices to cook your meals. A small butane burner will handle cooking needs. That will give you more available power for your computer.


The only CNC equipment I am traveling with is a professional vinyl cutter. It is not very power hungry, I run it on an small
150 watt inverter. If I want more equipment options and electrical power for a project I can travel and stay near Maker Spaces. There is one in Flagstaff AZ, dues are $50 per month and nomads are welcome, 24/7 access. The parking lot is too small for a big RV or travel trailer but there is street parking. The city does have a no camping (sleeping in vehicles) ordinance within city limits which includes private property unless it is a licensed camping facility.

The CNC in my username is just a part of the whole. I am by general nature an introvert bordering on being reclusive. I have spent most of my life machining, both manual and CNC including teaching conversational machining at a CNC control dealer school for a while. If I had a van like the **Tardis** that would be a completely different story, but at this time even some of the desktop machines are a little out of the reach. Maybe one day I could incorporate a small CNC machine in the garage area to keep my skills up and continue with many invention ideas. For the time being, I am looking at a way to have my 3D printer in the build to allow me to make little QoL items for the van itself. I was not aware of the maker space offerings but this is definitely something I will check into, and most likely budget for memberships like that, sounds like a lot of fun, and maybe even a chance to collaborate with other like minded people.

 

[CNC rg]

If Linux suits you, I've found the Raspberry Pi to be a nice little low-power vehicle computer that is "good enough" for most of my work. Portable monitors, some with built in batteries, on Amazon in various sizes. For those few Windows applications that I have to use occasionally (looking at you, wincupl), Wine is "good enough" (although slower than usual, since the Pi has to emulate the whole x86 architecture instead of using x86 virtualization).

The GPIO header is also dandy for interfacing to various vehicle and ham radio things, if you are (like me) a nerd. ;D

FWIW, I suspect that most of these newer LED monitors probably use a <= 12v power supply internally (some of the older TFT ones need a 36+v backlight, so that's a no-go), and could be relatively easily converted to DC power with one of those little DC-DC converter boards of Amazon. The "portable" monitors are fairly expensive for what you get, so if you are handy with a soldering iron this might be a good way to save a few bucks.

Thank you so much, your response has given me a bunch of new ideas, I have a RasPi4 still in the box and have been waiting for a worthy project to use it for. I was considering setting it up as a gateway server, but that may change. I have played some with mostly Mint for day to day but also some live distros for data recovery when we had some machines go bad during COVID-19 and had to get the research data from them. Unlike many people I lean toward an affinity with the digital world, to be fair I have also taught survival camp in the past, so I am not without relevant outdoor skills. I just find that my anxiety is considerably reduced when interacting with computers, or in the woods by myself. See above my mention on introvertedness and reclusiveness... I am right there with you in the ownership of the nerd title and have some ideas on developing different monitoring systems using either the RPI, or Arduino. To me this sounds like just a fun day.

 

[CNC rg]

There are some excellent smaller monitors available for very low cost. They sip battery, but have limited size. Usually based on laptop screens so think 15.6 inches with speakers and inputs. If your phone is capable, you can connect via cable and use the monitor for desktop purposes. There are some that have an internal battery. Nerds unite!

ForHelp 15.6inch Portable Monitor,1080P USB-C HDMI Second External Monitor for Laptop,PC,Mac phone,PS,Xbox,Swich,IPS Ultra-Thin Zero Frame Gaming Monitor/Premium Smart Cover https://a.co/d/33FDEmK

If you look above I mentioned my particular laptop. I have been able to add 3 additional displays along with the main laptop screen. The devices you referenced would be great additional monitors to the system as I am planning on building a combination workstation area into the van. The idea is to be able to do PC and development work in one iteration, and the ability to switch it up to relax with some leather working while still being able to use the monitors for either a movie, show or youtube video. The plan is to store the leather craft equipment in the garage area when not needed as this area will mostly be used for development/work. I could even use one of the monitors on an articulating arm with a wireless mouse/trackpad to watch movies while in bed if need be. Thank you for sharing the links to the monitors.

 

[CNC rg]

Great insights for options. Thanks for bringing up different strategies to approach the need.

Only thing I can offer to this is adaptability.
Maybe try on the cheap to live in limited parameters and develop from there.

When putting time and money into a solution, it's good to provide yourself with some wiggle room to adapt to what does and doesn't work ( for you).
Power sources, like plumbing may require adjustments which usually aren't easy or fast unless it's subtraction.

I agree with the concept of stages. I am a creature based in routines, and contingency plans. Initially I am considering functioning extremely minimalistic from a SUV and renting a storage facility to work on the van itself. Even the cost of renting a facility #1 is cheaper than an apartment, and #2 by having a place to store components and tools it will save more in the long run from having to sell stuff and repurchase things later on. I would also have the ability to not feel rushed in the build and put the needed time into things to hopefully avoid visits from Murphy.

 

[CNC rg]

Gaming computer perhaps. But if into CNC then just as likely the fast processing is needed for high end 3D CAD software. Gaming computers are fairly decent for that type of work. It is also very useful to have dual monitors. …Speaking from experience. CNC and 3D CAD Design are an essential pairing of technology

Definitely a gaming computer but also run things like Fusion360 with machining add-ons, and also depending on the situation possible Autodesk Inventor (depending on price and whether I still need it.)

 

[CNC rg]

Welcome to the forum



There are several people here with similar backgrounds, maybe more will chime in...

Adding to what rruff and Lee mentioned about running things directly from DC, one of the best electrical engineers I worked with lives in an off-grid house in rural AZ that runs almost entirely on 120V DC, with the inverter only needed to run his washer and a few other appliances. The lights, computer, whole house vacuum, electric hot-plate, etc. all connect directly to 120VDC.

It works because a lot of switching power supplies like laptop chargers already rectify the input internally. And vacuums/hair dryers do the same because they use high-RPM DC brush motors rather than AC induction motors.

But you have to be careful because some appliances like washers, dryers, non-RV fridges and older air conditioners require AC power, and you'll blow the fuse/breaker or burn up the motor if you plug them into DC.

The high draw “appliances” I am thinking of would fall into the range of refrigeration, AC (maybe a reliable 12v option will surface), toaster oven (maybe), and an induction cook top. I have no use for things like hair dryers, but I do have a little heat gun for shrink tubing for wires.

I view food as more of a utilitarian thing, meaning that I eat to avoid low blood sugar and to keep living. I appreciate amazing food, but it is not a daily requirement for my happiness. Not only that, but I have even considered things along the lines of Soylent but would need to find something that doesn't include soy. It would also have to fit into a price per meal that falls within budget.

 

[bullfrog !]

Something I considered once was towing a Prius with a 3,000 watt inverter on the main battery. Cheap transportation when parked good for short trips with climate control if overnighting. It’s actually more efficient than a Honda generator I believe.

 

[Happy Camper]

What year is your laptop? It makes a difference in your power delivery options. Doing a little research on it.

12v fridge/freezers are great these days and don't use a ton of power.

One of the more important things is how you will generate energy.
How much solar will you be mounting on the van?
Consider the capacity to charge off of the alternator, and having a high capacity one.
You've already mentioned a generator.

What make and model is your van?

 

[CNC rg]

What year is your laptop? It makes a difference in your power delivery options. Doing a little research on it.

12v fridge/freezers are great these days and don't use a ton of power.

One of the more important things is how you will generate energy.
How much solar will you be mounting on the van?
Consider the capacity to charge off of the alternator, and having a high capacity one.
You've already mentioned a generator.

What make and model is your van?

- it is a 2021 lenovo legion 5 pro.
- I have checked out a few and the 12v option looks pretty promising
- I am planning on having solar between 400-800 watts, maybe more. I am giving thought to designing a custom rack with slide out panels either double, or triple stacked. When driving it would only be the initial in combination with an upgraded alternator. Definitely will have shore power capability, and as I mentioned in a previous reply I am giving consideration to a small remote start generator on a hitch mount rack/cabinet for emergency power, or to power external tools and such.

- My "ideal" van which I am planning around is a Ram Promaster 159 with High Top. Being able to stand up is a priority, and also it would give more garage storage if I maximize the use of space in layout. I am currently using the dimensions I found online to 3d model some ideas in Fusion 360.

- Since fusion is free for hobbyists, once I retire and own my time, I want to start building up a library of models to make available to others who want to use the Fusion360 platform for their own designs.

 

[rruff]

The high draw “appliances” I am thinking of would fall into the range of refrigeration, AC (maybe a reliable 12v option will surface), toaster oven (maybe), and an induction cook top.

Electricity is best used only for necessary things. If what you want is heat, then flames are more efficient and cheaper.

A fridge isn't bad... ~300W-hr per day for a decent one. AC will take a lot of juice if it's so hot that you really need it.

How will you live and where will you park? I prefer to move around and camp in places where I don't need heat or cooling.

 

[CNC rg]

Electricity is best used only for necessary things. If what you want is heat, then flames are more efficient and cheaper.

A fridge isn't bad... ~300W-hr per day for a decent one. AC will take a lot of juice if it's so hot that you really need it.

How will you live and where will you park? I prefer to move around and camp in places where I don't need heat or cooling.

Once of my goals long ago was to travel and live for a period of time in each of the lower 48 states to get a broader perspective of what makes up this amazingly beautiful country. I agree with your thoughts on being where the temperature is most comfortable and would definitely factor that in to where I choose to park. The reasoning behind putting the AC on the list is better to have it and not need it often versus need it and not have it. I have seen a few videos reviewing12v systems that look pretty promising, and they seem reasonable for what they offer.

I agree about flames and will definitely look at one of the systems that either ties into the existing fuel tank or maybe consider diesel. My general thought is to consistently chase fall and avoid excessive snow areas. Worse case in a pinch I did come across 12v electric blankets. My biggest heating concern is keeping my feet warm. Aging really sucks.

 

[rruff]

The reasoning behind putting the AC on the list is better to have it and not need it often versus need it and not have it.

Living in a vehicle requires many tradeoffs. Space, weight, complexity, cost, maneuverability and parking, noise, convenience, etc. The amount of stuff you have to haul around to make the AC work on solar is pretty ridiculous unless you really need it... a lot. Like... you are forced to camp in hot areas for substantial periods.

I value getting to camping spots that are far off the beaten path, so my rig was designed with that as a priority. Good ground clearance, 4WD, big tires, upgraded suspension, not too heavy, etc... Maybe you don't care about that at all? Maybe a little? Where will you park?

"Space, the final frontier"... very important to have room for everything you want to bring, and have easy access to what you use often.

BTW... I need to keep my feet warm too. I camped where it got in the teens for a couple nights in a row, and only mid 40s during the day and windy. Even warm deserts will occasionally get that cold. A decent sleeping bag, blankets, cold weather gear.... I was fine.