Freedom?

[66788]

I don't want anyone to think that this is a political thread, but one of the main motivators for living in a van is freedom.

The USA used to have freedom, but not so much anymore. Emails, cell phone and land line phone conversations are monitored, as are all activities on the web.

Political correctness PC is a worldwide disease that must be cured.

What ever happened to common sense? It's not so common anymore, is it?

Afraid to offend someone with your words? Remember the old school days when children sang "Sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me."?

What about silly laws that are enacted to generate revenue for either the government or a special interest? For example, no sleeping in vehicles overnight. Pushed by the RV parks and campgrounds.

Laws fall into 2 categories:

1. Malum en se. Bad by itself. Murder, rape, robbery, things that we all agree are bad for society.

2. Malum ad prohibitum. Bad only by legislation, not morally bad. These normally have to do with paying taxes, parking in designated areas, a limit on your catch while fishing, things that are not generally accepted as bad behavior.

If I feel that a law is just and fair, I will obey it. If I feel that a law is unjust, I will break it. I am the master of my own life and I alone am responsible for my actions. I seek to do no harm to others, but I ask that others not butt into my life and tell me how to live.

We all have our own concept of right and wrong, and we must live by our own interpretation of that concept of right and wrong.

Yes, I do break laws regularly. I am comfortable with that and I do sleep very well at night.

I suspect that I am not alone in holding this belief on this forum.

 

[Spirituallifetime]

We all break law on a regular basis, who could possibly know all the laws in the US and the 50 States!

 

[LeeRevell]

66788, I whole heartedly agree! I once read that there are so many laws on the books today, that we are ALL criminals, guilty of breaking who-knows how many laws we are unaware even exist.

 

[psytechguy]

Some recommended reading:

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

 

[Terry]

I really disagree with your "motto" about sticks and stones causing hard but not words. Words can hurt more deeply and have as long, and sometimes longer debilitating effects. I do hope that this reference was just used in a harmless, but unthinking, way.

 

[One Awesome Inch]

There is no such thing as "freedom"... relatively speaking. When someone exercises their freedom, they are infringing on the freedom/rights of others. Freedom is something we give up as being part of society.

 

[SoulRaven]

I don't actually see the point of posting on a public forum that anyone chooses which laws to obey and those to disregard. Knowing the consequences of not abiding by laws,either those written and enforced or those that are dictated by society should be in the forefront of someones decision whether to follow the law.

I am one of the ones who 'Thanked' Terry about the sticks and stones thing. Me? I am old and purely don't give rats ass what someone says as long as they don't put their hands on me... Or my family. But there are many people who will hand you your teeth if you decide to do the names thing. Since my time in the military I have tried to avoid direct confrontation, my temper is too bad and I hear jail is no fun, so I mind my manners and obey most laws.

Safe Travels. Bob J.

 

[cdiggy]

I agree with almost everything you stated 66788.. Except the creel/bag limits on fishing. It is unfortunate that these laws have to be enacted but without them there would be no fishing. All the fish would be gone. We have to leave at least some fish for a viable fishery, else there would be no fish left to perpetuate the species or left for others to enjoy. Some laws are absolutely required, most are, as you stated, complete and utter bullshit.

 

[highdesertranger]

as I am basically a libertarian. I to agree. highdesertranger

 

[IGBT]

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

Least that is what me and Bobby Mcgee think.

 

[66788]

Some recommended reading:

http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo/tabid/86/Default.aspx

Only three felonies a day?

---

I really disagree with your "motto" about sticks and stones causing hard but not words. Words can hurt more deeply and have as long, and sometimes longer debilitating effects. I do hope that this reference was just used in a harmless, but unthinking, way.

No, it wasn't. I try not to make "unthinking" posts. I've been called a lot of things, but I know who I am and I don't accept anything but the truth. Words just run off like water off a duck's back.

One problem with the world today is people are so damn sensitive and take offense at every opportunity. I'm not saying be loose with your words, just don't let it bother you when someone unloads on you because in all probability, the person doing that is not mad at you, but he is mad at himself.

I guess I grew up in a different world, unlike the PC world of today.

---

I agree with almost everything you stated 66788.. Except the creel/bag limits on fishing. It is unfortunate that these laws have to be enacted but without them there would be no fishing. All the fish would be gone. We have to leave at least some fish for a viable fishery, else there would be no fish left to perpetuate the species or left for others to enjoy. Some laws are absolutely required, most are, as you stated, complete and utter bullshit.

Native Americans can fish without limits, and use nets that are prohibited for use by anyone else. Basically they are exempt from many Fish and Game laws.

I hear where you are coming from, and to a certain extent agree. I could have picked a better example.

---

There is no such thing as "freedom"... relatively speaking. When someone exercises their freedom, they are infringing on the freedom/rights of others. Freedom is something we give up as being part of society.

I am betting you are a relatively young man. You have never tasted freedom, therefore you believe the way you do.

When someone smoke a joint at home and goes to sleep in a state that prohibits marijuana, how does that affect another person's freedom? If a guy has a rifle with a 15 3/4 barrel and uses it responsibly (legal minimum is 16 inches) how does that affect someone else's freedom? If a city ordinance prohibits anyone from owning more than 3 cats, does owning 4 cats jeopardize other peoples freedom? When I grew up in California in the 60's oral sex was a felony, even between husband and wife.

The USA used to be a free country. It's anything but that now.

 

[Patrick46]

I've been called a lot of things, but I know who I am and I don't accept anything but the truth. Words just run off like water off a duck's back.

One problem with the world today is people are so damn sensitive and take offense at every opportunity.

Well Said!! ^^^

I couldn't give a RA what someone 'SAIS' about me.

...but touch me, or any member of my 'family' (whatever I choose that to mean)....and it's Game ON!!

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I knew it, legalizing oral sex was the start of the erosions of our freedoms, repeal the blow job law now

 

[RogueRV2]

I am also a Libertarian.

 

[spd2918]

Interesting topic.

I guess in reality we all do what we think is best and we all break minor laws from time to time and sleep well. Do what you can afford to do if caught.

I take issue with the concept that some laws are only laws are somehow illegitimate because a person does not want to follow them. You used parking as an example. If there were no parking enforcement then our freedom of movement would be curtailed. We'd be at far greater risk of damaging our vehicles. Those laws were a response to an issue that effected all of us.

Fish limits was another example used. If you want there to be fish, then a limit must be used. There are people who don't respect it and still take what they want, but at least most people don't. If the resource were over fished it would be gone.

 

[mockturtle]

One problem with the world today is people are so damn sensitive and take offense at every opportunity.

We have certainly seen evidence of this in the past few days.

 

[Terry]

Well, if you start in on me, with words or whatever, you better be ready to handle what you ask for. Nothing rolls off my back. You need to understand, and the rest of the world does too, that some people grew up fighting for everything they get and disrespect isn't allowed to flourish. Even being old and crippled up, tempers only get a slightly longer fuse. They don't necessarily lose any intensity.

 

[spd2918]

 

[GrantRobertson]

I really disagree with your "motto" about sticks and stones causing hard but not words. Words can hurt more deeply and have as long, and sometimes longer debilitating effects. I do hope that this reference was just used in a harmless, but unthinking, way.

Yeah, words harmed me every single hour of every single day while I was in school. Still struggling to get over the damage.

 

[vanman2300]

Some freedoms still exist it's just the number of freedoms are diminishing.....if you choose to live the typical life of owning property, having the nice car, holding down that job you hate so much, etc. BUT that isn't so much the case for those who choose to live outside of society and their diminishing freedoms.

Personally I'm disgusted with society because there isn't much in the way of good things one can think to say about it. I'm not crazy I'm just being brutally honest. Being out on the road living in a van seems the best way to eliminate all the crap society seems so talented in serving up to everyone. You don't have to worry about politics, taxes, bad neighbors, smog, mortgage payments, and on and on and on.

When I think of all the work it took to support and maintain "stuff" and the idea of how easy it would be to lose it all it seemed insane to me as much as it might seem insane to common people that someone should choose to live differently. Yes about that freedom thing here are just a few freedoms I know others don't have: the freedom to change what scenery you want to look at from your abode at a moments notice....freedom to get up and move away from a nasty neighbor.....freedom from having the government reach into your pocket so much.....freedom from having to please anyone else other than yourself. The last one for me is huge!

I wouldn't worry so much about freedom because most of the freedoms lost affect those who choose to live in society. They are the ones being watched and evaluated every day, having assessors decide how much they will pay in taxes, living with bosses that are overbearing/demanding, and losing their privacy piece by piece.