StarkRavingNomad
Active member
- Joined
- May 13, 2021
- Messages
- 42
- Reaction score
- 3
I think HDR, Spiff and I may only disagree on the degree to which education will help. You guys both think that it helps some, yes? I agree that there will be a litter problem for a long time to come. But it's not just education, it's the changing social attitudes that come as an after-effect of education. A widely understood stigma that grows against litterers makes people feel that litterers are the dregs of society, and most people -even a lot of the dregs - don't want to see themselves that way. Does that make sense?
All I have for this is anecdotal. I recently talked with someone who spent a lot of time in Australia. She said that while there are litter problems, in a lot of areas, even near cities, there's very little - and a strong social stigma against littering. I think I saw something similar around Boulder, CO. Since I lived there in the early 80s the front range has seen a population explosion. Yet on my drives into the hills last year I didn't see more litter, and in at least 2 places a lot less. I mentioned it to my son who lived in Longmont and he said that people in the area were "very aware" when it came to litter. I can't help wondering if Leave No Trace - LNT.org being based in Boulder has something to do with that.
Anyway, let's take your comparison to drunk driving, HDR. I could say it's not a fair comparison because alcohol impairs judgment. Well extreme stupidity impairs judgment too (One of the funniest insults I ever heard was, "Is being an idiot like being drunk all the time?"). A quick google yielded this: Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities on our nation's roadways have decreased 52%, while total traffic fatalities have declined 18%. Among persons under 21, drunk driving fatalities have decreased 83%. Like littering it won't go away anytime soon, but we've all seen attitudes about drunk driving change dramatically over the years.
So if we agree that education will help some, we only disagree on how much. Personally I've got to give them the benefit of the doubt. When I'm picking up litter if I start thinking about what total creeps the people who left this mess are, I get more ticked-off with every piece I pick up!
All I have for this is anecdotal. I recently talked with someone who spent a lot of time in Australia. She said that while there are litter problems, in a lot of areas, even near cities, there's very little - and a strong social stigma against littering. I think I saw something similar around Boulder, CO. Since I lived there in the early 80s the front range has seen a population explosion. Yet on my drives into the hills last year I didn't see more litter, and in at least 2 places a lot less. I mentioned it to my son who lived in Longmont and he said that people in the area were "very aware" when it came to litter. I can't help wondering if Leave No Trace - LNT.org being based in Boulder has something to do with that.
Anyway, let's take your comparison to drunk driving, HDR. I could say it's not a fair comparison because alcohol impairs judgment. Well extreme stupidity impairs judgment too (One of the funniest insults I ever heard was, "Is being an idiot like being drunk all the time?"). A quick google yielded this: Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities on our nation's roadways have decreased 52%, while total traffic fatalities have declined 18%. Among persons under 21, drunk driving fatalities have decreased 83%. Like littering it won't go away anytime soon, but we've all seen attitudes about drunk driving change dramatically over the years.
So if we agree that education will help some, we only disagree on how much. Personally I've got to give them the benefit of the doubt. When I'm picking up litter if I start thinking about what total creeps the people who left this mess are, I get more ticked-off with every piece I pick up!