Doing Something About Litter!

[bullfrog]

I come from a long line of people that recycle. My grandfather hauled freight with a horse and wagon across Ohio River where there was a toll bridge. There was a large scrap steel yard there as well. He would deliver his load and pick up enough scrap to pay for the toll to and from on his next delivery as he used to say no use pulling an empty wagon. I used to pick up pop bottles to pay for treats on weekends. My children and I mounted large trash cans on the sides of an old Baja Bug and with my daughter (she is really good at spotting cans) sitting on the top my two sons with long sticks with nails would ride on the running boards making a contest out of who could spear the most cans as we idled down dirt roads. When it got to a point we couldn't make enough to pay for the gasoline we quit, which is my point. If you had to pay a dollar deposit on every beer/soda/pop can you can bet you would be hard pressed to find them laying on the side of the road for long. Same goes for fast food wrappers and bags. Many school programs used to be funded by turning in coupons or labels from packaging, why not return the whole box or container for a cash refund? Recycle centers are plagued by contaminated unsorted trash. What needs to happen is to make it profitable for the public to do a better job and suppliers to do a better job of identifying materials and using recyclable ones instead of the cheapest one so they don't have to worry about what happens when it has done it's job and becomes trash. Just something to consider, I sure miss drinking a 5 cent cola with a 10 cent bag of peanuts in it on a Saturday after cashing in my pop bottles!

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

Interesting, and good points.  I too would love to see the return of return-for-refund.  Respect and admiration to those who work to reduce waste.  Probably the best-suited people to head up those kinds of projects would have degrees in law, or engineering, or have lobbyist connections in DC.  Unfortunately I have none of these.  I have a degree in religion. I'm just doing what I can to get public lands cleaner.

 

[Cammalu]

SRN are you organizing any big clean ups like what has been done in Ehrenberg?

 

[vanbrat]

Oregon has one of the best I know about, (Not that I know all of them) something like if you can drink out of it you pay to return it and then get your money back. When we lived there the milk jug collection was our Christmas fund. Then they went to a different type of jug so ....
They still do for most single serve stuff and the 2 litter things glass, cans, and plastic. Most stores have easy recycle areas so you don't have to work much to do the returns and if you don't want to fuss with it there is always a street person willing to do it. It felt weird to me when we moved and didn't have that anymore. I think Maine does something like it, but we have not been there in 30+yrs so don't know.
I know the stores don't want to deal with it, but the beaches are can and bottle free. I would rather pay for a can from a fast food place if it meant the can could be returned and actually get recycled. Back when we went up and down I-5 on the north end of Portland there was a place that did the glass it was something to see the mountains of glass ready to processed. Brown glass, clear glass, green glass, even blue glass. They had really huge mountains of the stuff.

I had at a school one day each summer at the summer program a day of trash pick up contest 2 groups go out and each return to a set place and time to weigh etc to see who won. The winners got to be first in line for ice cream or something silly like that. It was fun and the trails beside the school got cleaned up.. Until the year we had to stop the kids because we found needles and TP and used condoms'. That was the end of that game. I love the idea of a trash clean up party and we still have them for the adults on the more popular beaches here. Just be careful what you pick up and how you handle it.

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

SRN are you organizing any big clean ups like what has been done in Ehrenberg?

Not yet.  The group's just getting started.  To clean up big messes, a big group makes it a party, rather than a couple of people slaving for days.  If you do FB, go to the group and read the post near the top that starts with "FAQ".  If it's not visible, click announcements at the top.  It talks about some of our long-term goals.  (If you don't do FB, a website will be coming not too far down the road.)

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

You're absolutely right, HDR, there has been some great discussion here! As for vanbrat's reminiscing about kids picking up litter, one great suggestion that came from a member is involving Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. It could be done as part of a camping trip for a badge. The main concern would be the kids' safety... Looking into it further and maybe talking the Scouts about it is on my to-do list.

 

[RoamerRV428]

you know I loved your site but when I picked up my trash and disposed I didn't give your site a thought.........as in I just did it and while your post seemed cool I wasn't gonna put time into saying I dumped all this crap I metal detected up into the garbage and I love your get go on it all and ALWAYS push this but when I threw out my waste I didn't bother posting my garbage/disposal time on the site, even though I said I might LOL

I think awareness is fab, but a site to post I threw out is gonna be a hard sell actually...maybe? I dont know LOL

 

[jacqueg]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I am thinking of the Oregon Coast Cleanup. No, you or me[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] picking up a couple bags worth of plastic doohickeys, shotgun shells, and other stray detritus is no biggie. But if you have a big coordinated cleanup, and weigh the garbage that is picked up - well, that might be a different story.
[/font]
I am warming up to this idea.

For the Oregon Coast Cleanup, see www.solveoregon.org

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

you know I loved your site but when I picked up my trash and disposed I didn't give your site a thought.........as in I just did it and while your post seemed cool I wasn't gonna put time into saying I dumped all this crap I metal detected up  into the garbage and I love your get go on it all and ALWAYS push this but when I threw out my waste I didn't bother posting my garbage/disposal time on the site, even though I said I might LOL

I think awareness is fab, but a site to post I threw out is gonna be a hard sell actually...maybe?  I dont know LOL

I think you're missing the main point of the group, and that's very understandable because right now, the main discussion is about picking up and posting.  It will be the main topic until the group gets big enough to start tackling bigger projects that require a large group.  To get an idea of the longer-term goals, go see what I posted yesterday.  It's near the top and starts with "FAQ".  As for picking up and posting, it's easy!  I've done it lots of times in the last couple of months.  Just scroll dowwwn...  keep scrolling

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I am thinking of the Oregon Coast Cleanup. No, you or me[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] picking up a couple bags worth of plastic doohickeys, shotgun shells, and other stray detritus is no biggie. But if you have a big coordinated cleanup, and weigh the garbage that is picked up - well, that might be a different story.
[/font]
I am warming up to this idea.

For the Oregon Coast Cleanup, see www.solveoregon.org

Thanks for sharing that link!  I've seen a number of area specific clean-up sites, but this was the biggest and best I've seen to date. Since 1969 has something to do with it.  Impressive - it looks like Oregon will be a lot cleaner this time tomorrow with all the clean ups scheduled!  - And they even plant native trees!  In a way, that's what PAL is about.  It's not area specific, but it's site specific, if that makes sense.  The target is public lands, specifically public lands that don't have the resources to pay people to clean up.  I expect that the bulk of the work will be on BLM lands, since they are responsible for the most land and have the least funding.  "Warming up to this idea"? Enough to become a member? 

 

[hugemoth]

IMO dump fees are a major factor in how much trash you find laying around any given area. There are no trash dump fees in Quartzsite and Bouse so I find very little trash, especially for the number of campers in the area. Other areas with hefty dump fees generally have more litter.

 

[jacqueg]

Thanks for sharing that link!  I've seen a number of area specific clean-up sites, but this was the biggest and best I've seen to date. Since 1969 has something to do with it.  Impressive - it looks like Oregon will be a lot cleaner this time tomorrow with all the clean ups scheduled!  - And they even plant native trees!  In a way, that's what PAL is about.  It's not area specific, but it's site specific, if that makes sense.  The target is public lands, specifically public lands that don't have the resources to pay people to clean up.  I expect that the bulk of the work will be on BLM lands, since they are responsible for the most land and have the least funding.  "Warming up to this idea"? Enough to become a member? 

Initial sponsorship from the state's major newspaper had a lot to do with it. And that sponsorship was a result of the support of a popular columnist. And of course from the popularity of the Oregon coast. Since then, lots of businesses and organizations, large and small, have joined in.

Maybe seek sponsorship/support from REI? Or other well-known outdoor retailers? If you go this route, you will need a well-thought-out plan.

 

[jacqueg]

IMO dump fees are a major factor in how much trash you find laying around any given area. There are no trash dump fees in Quartzsite and Bouse so I find very little trash, especially for the number of campers in the area. Other areas with hefty dump fees generally have more litter.

Absolutely. And that assumes there even IS a dumpster in the vicinity. Make it hard to do something, many people won't do it. Duh.

 

[NctryBen]

Absolutely. And that assumes there even IS a dumpster in the vicinity. Make it hard to do something, many people won't do it. Duh.

I hear ya, but my last couple trips down that way I visited a couple roadside picnik tables with dumpsters right there. It’s like there is a crowd that thinks... we’ll, at least I got it close! Beautiful little roadsides. What is wrong with people!

 

[Cammalu]

Hugemoth, I don’t know how you missed the trash in Quartzsite! There is a BUNCH out in the desert all over. There is a free dump and much of it is household trash so rather than go to the free dump they just drive out in the desert and start tossing

 

[TravelingZombies]

My wife and I was just at the Walker habitat management unit ran by the army corps of engineers and we packed out 2 30 gallon garbage bags of trash. Everywhere we go we find trash and feel like garbage collectors when we leave the area.
It's sad that so many people are just lazy to even clean up after themselves like their mommies will clean up their messes.

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

Here's what I've seen so far: Litter on public lands has 3 main sources: Campers, homeless camps and illegal dump-sites. Those who contribute to the mess can get people mad at them, but I prefer to look at the common thread between all of them as ignorance, and we're all ignorant about different things. I don't think anger and blame are productive when it comes to solving these issues. The only cure for that is education, and the most effective education starts with compassion and understanding, not animosity. I have heard and seen how two given towns/areas can have about the same amount of traffic on nearby public lands, yet one area can be much cleaner than the other. If you've been paying attention you've probably seen that too. I think the difference is the overall mindset and level of awareness of area residents.

That's all about how the trash gets left behind, and working on reducing that will make for the best long-term solutions. But real change in terms of the amount of litter left behind could take years, even decades. In the meantime there's a lot of trash out there and the piles are growing. The single biggest factor in how much does or doesn't get picked up is funding. BLM has the most land and -especially in terms of $s per acre - is by far the least well-funded. That's why, on the federal level, BLM lands have some of the biggest litter problems.

I've seen varying opinions expressed here about how much good dumpsters do. How much they actually get used might vary from one area to the next, but generally, a dumpster placed in a problem area is better than what we have now in too many places - no dumpster. For areas where camp trash is the biggest problem, even when some campers don't use them, others will have a much easier way to clean up after them. A lot of campers pick up trash. Unfortunately -and this applies most to van and car dwellers- they just don't have room to take it with them to dispose of properly. I think onsite dumpsters would go a long way toward enabling the more aware campers to ramp up the "leave it cleaner than you found it" ethic that so many are already practicing.

As for homeless camps and illegal dumpsites, pick-up parties are the only real short-term fix that I can see. Let's just say that there are more down-the-road things that our group hopes to address - suggestions are always welcome, and even more appreciated when they come from PAL - People Against Litter members! I've seen some reluctance to join our group from folks who support the idea. I think some of it may be because of the staunch individualism of many nomads. I can relate. I've never been a "joiner" myself. But just adding your name shows your support and goes a long way to improving our visibility and credibility. Doing so requires about the same level of commitment as if someone handed you a piece of paper saying, "Would you sign this petition?" The petition says, "I don't like litter!"

 

[NctryBen]

I agree, I made a comment about trash around a dumpster... I’ll tell ya what, I was glad it was there! My comment wasn’t meant to bash... just kinda tongue in cheek. I’m actually looking forward to being down there and helping where I can. As far as education... our example should go as far as most anything.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Here's what I've seen so far:  Litter on public lands has 3 main sources:  Campers, homeless camps and illegal dump-sites . . . The only cure for that is education . . .

I will have to respectfully disagree.

Some people just don't give a sh!t.  We have been educating kids in school to "don't be a litter bug" since I was in school (back in the dark ages).  

Two examples:

• I have a friend who spent half of last Sunday going around to abandoned campsites putting out campfires in an area that is under a Stage 2 fire ban (no fires).  Signs were prominently posted, it was in the local news.  Yet large numbers of people just ignore the ban (they can't claim ignorance) and not only have an illegal fire but leave it burning when they leave!
• Last year we saw a large increase in the visitors to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area.  All visitors are required to watch an educational video that explains the rules including 'no cans or bottles' before they are issued a permit.  A number of campsites were trashed with broken glass, cans, and garbage left laying around.

Education only works for people who want to be educated.

 

[highdesertranger]

I have to agree with Spiff. A certain percentage of the people just don't give a shit. And the more people there is the more of these people you have. I am not saying don't try to make a difference but the problem will never go away.

Just look at drunk driving as an example. We have been educated every which way for decades. And it still persists. For whatever reason some people just don't get it.

Highdesertranger