Doing Something About Litter!

[StarkRavingNomad]

I think HDR, Spiff and I may only disagree on the degree to which education will help. You guys both think that it helps some, yes? I agree that there will be a litter problem for a long time to come. But it's not just education, it's the changing social attitudes that come as an after-effect of education. A widely understood stigma that grows against litterers makes people feel that litterers are the dregs of society, and most people -even a lot of the dregs - don't want to see themselves that way. Does that make sense?

All I have for this is anecdotal. I recently talked with someone who spent a lot of time in Australia. She said that while there are litter problems, in a lot of areas, even near cities, there's very little - and a strong social stigma against littering. I think I saw something similar around Boulder, CO. Since I lived there in the early 80s the front range has seen a population explosion. Yet on my drives into the hills last year I didn't see more litter, and in at least 2 places a lot less. I mentioned it to my son who lived in Longmont and he said that people in the area were "very aware" when it came to litter. I can't help wondering if Leave No Trace - LNT.org being based in Boulder has something to do with that.

Anyway, let's take your comparison to drunk driving, HDR. I could say it's not a fair comparison because alcohol impairs judgment. Well extreme stupidity impairs judgment too (One of the funniest insults I ever heard was, "Is being an idiot like being drunk all the time?"). A quick google yielded this: Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities on our nation's roadways have decreased 52%, while total traffic fatalities have declined 18%. Among persons under 21, drunk driving fatalities have decreased 83%. Like littering it won't go away anytime soon, but we've all seen attitudes about drunk driving change dramatically over the years.

So if we agree that education will help some, we only disagree on how much. Personally I've got to give them the benefit of the doubt. When I'm picking up litter if I start thinking about what total creeps the people who left this mess are, I get more ticked-off with every piece I pick up!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

My point (and I think HDRs) is that we have educated all those who are open to being educated.  Additional education needs to be targeted to those who are not open to learn.

Driving Under the Influence example from Minnesota:
Mothers Against Drunk Driving led a two pronged attack targeting legislators resisting increased penalties for DUI and judges who were giving drunk drivers 'the benefit of the doubt'.  Today in Minnesota a first time DUI conviction will cost you ~$10,000, restricted driving privileges, and the humiliating 'whiskey license plate'.  Education has gone from "don't drive drunk" to "this is what happens when you get caught".

That is what is missing from the anti-litter campaigns: there is very little chance of being caught and the penalty is minor.  I think that is what turned the tide for DUI nationally: the penalties got stiff and were seriously enforced.

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

[font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]I'd love to see $10K first offense for (intentional) litterers, but it's not going to happen.  I agree that the same deterrents can't be used, BUT RE: "[size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]we have educated all those who are open to bein[/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]g educated" This was part of a comment in the People Against Litter Group just this morning: [/font](We) "pick up trash when we’re out hiking. It amazes me that young people ask him 'why' ??? He tells them it’s the right thing to do!"   ---I think there's a lot of educating to be done!   [/font][/size]

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

Also, you'd mentioned that we've been educated forever with "Don't be a litterbug"  The slogan is the brainchild of the Keep America Beautiful program.  The organization was itself founded as a smokescreen to shift focus away from packaging and place the responsibility on the consumer.  In '96 the organization was paid $250K by Phillip Morris in exchange for distributing portable ashtrays that advertised Vantage cigarettes (cigarette filters are about 95% plastic). Initially the KAB program started while beverage companies were doing away with return for deposit containers.  The same companies that were funding KAB to change the focus were funding lobbyists to make packaging the environmental disaster that we have today.  So I'd say it depends on who's doing the educating!  Until recently I thought it was a great program too.  Turns out it's as phony as the "crying indian" mascot, who isn't even Native American!

 

[rokguy]

We had Ian Keenan, the world class yachtsman who started "Clean up Australia" day after he saw first hand the rubbish floating around the worlds oceans.
Aust doesn't seem to have much of a problem with rubbish, probably due to the small population living in an area the size of the US.

 

[kklowell]

I live in Maine, we do have a bottle/can deposit (5 cents for most, 10 cents for large bottles, such as 2-liter size, and 15 cents for wine bottles) and while it helps, one can still see these items in the ditch on any country road. Some people are just completely inconsiderate, or ignorant, I'm not sure which.
Maine has a very tough penalty for those who decide to ignore a campfire ban. Several years ago we were camping on a remote lake and had CB radios to keep in touch with each other during our days of fishing. The people who lived around the lake also had CBs and we heard them talk about the fire ban and how a rafting company campsite was ignoring the ban. One of the CBers went to tell them of the fire ban and the person in charge told him to mind his own damned business! That CBer called the local game warden, who paid the campers a visit very early the next morning....and wrote them a $1,000 citation. I talked with the warden just minutes after that and he told me they don't have to write many of those tickets, but don't hesitate to do so when it's necessary.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

[font=Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][size=small] . . . [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]This was part of a comment in the People Against Litter Group just this morning: [/font](We) "pick up trash when we’re out hiking. It amazes me that young people ask him 'why' ??? He tells them it’s the right thing to do!"   ---I think there's a lot of educating to be done!   [/font][/size]

"The definition of insanity is doing the same ting over and over again but expecting different results." - Albert Einstein.

People have been inundated with 'don't be a litter bug' -- 'give a hoot, don't pollute' -- 'put litter in its place' -- et.al. since 1947.  It ain't working.  
Those young people you mention have had lessons on not polluting/littering every year they were in school.  It ain't working.

IMO we have reached everyone who is willing to learn and listen; it's time to try something different.

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

OK then.  So in the meantime, how's about we pick it up?

 

[therovinghighlandlass]

Unfortunately, littering is a trend and not a good one. All my life I have camped and was taught, at an early age to police my encampment; even at the living history events, that I have participated in. In my opinion, it only takes a minute to pick up your trash, including trash left by the campers before you, which I have always done every time that I have camped. A trash bag only costs pennies on the dollar and if you don't have a trash bag; then there is always a plastic walmart bag or bread wrapper and they don't cost anything and they make great trash bags. Dumping them is easy, just find a free public trash can and put them in.

I have went to McDonalds; when I had a Walmart bag full of trash and put it inside their outside trash can, then went through their drive thru after and ordered a large soda; for a dollar to help cover the cost for my dumping my trash, in their trash cans. By doing so, their staff never said anything about it to me and I was helping to keeping the environment clean, while dumping my trash for free and I could get an ice cold soda on a hot day and it was a win, win situation for me.

 

[VanFan]

Over the last several decades, I have noticed a regressive change in the once prevailing "don't litter" ethic in urban and rural areas a like.  Our base is in Texas, where there is very little public land.  Even so, I've observed many first time campers in recreation areas who I believe really do not understand how to engage with the land and other visitors respectfully.

Culture is fluid.  We can change it.  Attitude precedes behavior by a significant margin in many cases.  Education shapes attitude and influences behavior over time.  Education takes many forms.  It might be helpful for us to seek to educate ourselves about the factors affecting less-than-litter-conscious behavior.  Personally, I'm curious about that.

I am a stubborn Facebook "refuser".  Is there another way to engage with this effort?

 

[nature lover]

In my travels I find one of the most significant causes of litter is poverty. Poverty causes low self-esteem low self-esteem causes trash along the road and wherever. I don’t think I’ve ever read that from any professional but I sure have seen it to be true. Good night to nomads everywhere sleep well and God bless.

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

Over the last several decades, I have noticed a regressive change in the once prevailing "don't litter" ethic in urban and rural areas a like.  Our base is in Texas, where there is very little public land.  Even so, I've observed many first time campers in recreation areas who I believe really do not understand how to engage with the land and other visitors respectfully.

Culture is fluid.  We can change it.  Attitude precedes behavior by a significant margin in many cases.  Education shapes attitude and influences behavior over time.  Education takes many forms.  It might be helpful for us to seek to educate ourselves about the factors affecting less-than-litter-conscious behavior.  Personally, I'm curious about that.

I am a stubborn Facebook "refuser".  Is there another way to engage with this effort?

We will be doing a non-fb site at some point.  Getting 501c3 status (a fair amount of work) is my next project.  My apologies for not having been here for a while.  I do hope that you see this and contact me via email:  [email protected] - I will be sure to keep you in the loop and let you know when the site is up.  YES!  Culture is fluid, and yes we can change it!  Littler will never go away completely, if for no other reason, not all litter is intentional.  Just how much litter can be reduced through changing the culture remains to be seen.  But the idea here is a commitment to both.  Educating to hopefully reduce, then picking up what's on the ground.

 

[VanFan]

My apologies for not having been here for a while.  I do hope that you see this and contact me via email:  [email protected] - I will be sure to keep you in the loop and let you know when the site is up.

Glad you were able to circle back this way!  I've heard from others that obtaining non-profit status is a major undertaking.  If you have a list for email updates, I would like to be on it.  (I'll send an email your way.)  However, I don't intend for my Facebook refusal to make more work for others, so I can certainly be patient with the process(es) you are undertaking.

 

[RoamerRV428]

here is a pic of what I found today on the rip/rap rocks from our site while swimming and yes I always CLEAN it up and if WE all did it then yes we make a better world, even if only a very small impact.  I got all that crap and threw it up on the bank and normal dispose of and it won't be lake trash ever and JUST know OP we all are mostly out there taking care of business if even on a small level LOL

 

[StarkRavingNomad]

here is a pic of what I found today on the rip/rap rocks from our site while swimming and yes I always CLEAN it up and if WE all did it then yes we make a better world, even if only a very small impact.  I got all that crap and threw it up on the bank and normal dispose of and it won't be lake trash ever and JUST know OP we all are mostly out there taking care of business if even on a small level LOL

I hope you visit the site!  I think you'll like what you see.

 

[RoamerRV428]

yea I was in it before, I guess you changed it a bit now? will go check on it again

 

[TravelingZombies]

So every campsite we've been to has been overrun by trash and fire pits with nails, screws and so on. We haul out 2 times the trash we made and even got noticed by a forest ranger who gave us trash bags and gloves as well as tell us where we could take it for free.