Amateur radio

[highdesertranger]

so for years I have used CB radios but I want to upgrade.  I don't know where to start.  everyone has all kinds of different opinions on this. I am looking for a mobile mounted amateur radio for someone who is in the boonies a lot,  me.  some say dual band 2m and 430mhz.  some say 2m.  some say 430mhz(70cm).  so what is the opinion here?  dual band,  2m, or 70cm.  I would appreciate the pluses and minus for each platform.  I have wanted a ham for years but something always comes up.  I figure it's time.  highdesertranger

 

[speedhighway46]

HDR:

For a complete presentation about Amateur Radio go to ARRL.org. The American Radio Relay League is the national organization for Amateur Radio operators, headquartered in Newington, CT. Licensing and testing is fully explained.

All of the radios you mention operate in the FM mode; two meters is by far the most popular. But dual band FM radios which operate on 2m/70 cm (144/440 MHz) are only slightly more expensive although "range" on 440 is not nearly as good as 2m. These radios also operate through fixed repeater stations which can extend the operating range out to 40-50 miles typically.

However, there are many more operating modes are in addition to FM. With CW (Morse Code) and Single Sideband (SSB- voice) you can communicate around the global from your van. There are also digital modes and even Amateur Radio television.

I would be happy any specific questions anyone has regarding Amateur Radio. It's a VERY broad subject and a great and enjoyable hobby.

Thanks for starting this new thread; I was a bit guilty of pulling the CB thread off topic!

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I'm following this post. I had planned on getting my license 10 years ago. Used to rock climb with a guy and he had his on him 24/7. Thought it was neat and now that it's ten years later I think it's time to join the club. Just passed in my passport application that was filled out for six years, so as you can see, I like to stay right on top of things!

 

[highdesertranger]

yes, yes, yes, I know about the license and will get one before operating. so I will get a little more range out of a 2m? what are the pluses for a 70cm? what advantages is there for having a dual ban? highdesertranger

 

[speedhighway46]

The advantage of dual band radios is that you can operate two different bands with just one radio. In the "most" populated large cities there is just about as much activity on 70 cm (also called 440 or UHF) as there is on 2m (146 MHz or VHF). In the boonies 2m is the place to operate, especially on 146.52 MHz, the "national" calling and distress frequency. When I am traveling in my Motorhome I keep my 2m radio on 146.52 all the time.

There really is no advantage for 440 over 2m; it's just another band.

Now there is another chunk of the frequency spectrum allocated to Amateur Radio called HF (high frequency). HF is any frequency below 30 MHz. There are seven bands for ham radio in the HF spectrum. One of the most popular is 20 meters, or 14 MHz. One this band you can pretty much talk anywhere in the world at certain times of the day.

There are three classes of licenses in AR: technician, general, and Amateur Extra Class. For VHF and UHF all is required is the technician class license, and this is the one most people start with. Some folks never need more. Each additional class license has a more difficult test but when you pass you are rewarded with the priviledge of operating on more bands, like HF.

Back to 2m for a moment . . . Range on this band is basically line of sight. So if you are up on a mountain you could communicate 40-50 miles, even more. However, if you are camped out by the river down in a valley, your range might only be 3-5 miles.

Hope this helps.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Expedition Portal has a lot of good info on mobile rigs for backcountry and overland vehicles.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/forums/47-Communications-HAM-CB-2M-SAT

I highly recommend Ham Test Online for training to pass the exam.  It's what I used.

https://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/login.htm

 

[skyl4rk]

I used to have a HF rig on my boat, I participated in the Maritime Mobile Service Network net, which is a 20 meter band net at 14.300 MHz. Because of the way skip works, from my boat east of Chicago on Lake Michigan, I could frequently hear much of the US east coast down to FL and the northern Caribbean. I had a strong "pipeline" to Texas and in good conditions could hear California and Washington. With 20 meters, you can't hear your own region, although you can generally hear within 10 miles or so. However in bad conditions there was a lot of static and only the strong stations could be heard.

I listened to a number of interesting rescues and disaster related traffic, such as after the earthquake in Haiti, the net was the only way to get information in and out of the country for several days. There were some emotional phone patches as relatives learned of family members who were killed.

The MMSN frequently had check ins from truckers and RVers. Googling "RV amateur net" comes up with the RV Radio Network on 7265 at 8pm each evening, the RV Service Net at 14.307.5 at noon and 5pm. Monday through Friday, and several more which you will have to google for yourself.

20 meters is best during the mid day, and 40 meters is best in the evening.

I have a VHF radio but have not used it much, where I live in a rural area there is almost no traffic, even on the repeater.

Unfortunately HF rigs tend to be expensive, a new low cost radio is $700 or more. A good used one is a Kenwood TS-130S, http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=kenwood+ts-130s, usually available for under $500. The Icom 706 is a great radio but expensive. Maybe the Chinese are making HF radios now, that would be a breakthrough to get a decent HF rig for $300 or so.

The real key is going to be setting up a good antenna with antenna tuner. I wish I had a good recommendation but I am still trying to figure out a low cost option to install in the van.

 

[ZoNiE]

A (2M/70cm)dual band is definitely one good way to go. You can usually find repeaters near any large city and most small towns, so you can raise someone in a pinch. They are small, cheap, and you can find them on Craigslist or Ham sites for sale a lot. Jeepers use them (Sometimes illegally) and you can comm with FRS and GMRS radio users.

I have a "Shack-in-a-box" all Band Icom 706MKIIG. They are old enough now that you can find a good deal on one. I paid $250 for mine and it came with a tuner, but was missing the mic and the separation cable (Which can go for over $100 if you can find one). I got lucky, they usually go for about 2X that but are worth it. You can also pop for a new all band, but they cost in the $1,200 range.

I also carry a Baofeng UV-5R dual band, Works pretty good and can open the repeaters, but the rubber ducky antenna failed, so I had to replace it. I use it in my truck with a Larsen mag mount. Two UV-5R's make really good walkie talkies... Especially on a cruise ship. They have enough power to make it through all the metal.

http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/706/specifications.aspx
https://www.amazon.com/BaoFeng-UV-5R-Dual-Radio-Black/dp/B007H4VT7A

 

[DannyB1954]

70 cm also called UHF and 440 band is a bit better for handheld ,(walki talki type) radios operated in a vehicle or building. The signal goes through material easier, but which is better depends largely on what repeater is near you. For station to station, (without a repeater in between), the 2 meter band will go farther. Where I live the 70cm works better because of the better repeater setup that the one operator here has.

The ham test questions are taken from a pool of questions that are published. http://www.arrl.org/question-pools You can just memorise the questions, but it is best if you actually know what they are talking about. Most classes are given free of charge you can find one here http://www.arrl.org/find-an-amateur-radio-license-class Books and Youtube are also available. This book will help you with the first technician licence. https://www.amazon.com/ARRL-Ham-Rad...F8&qid=1467624880&sr=8-1&keywords=ham+licence Youtube has several videos. Here is one This guy and others have a whole series to explain things. You can also take the next licence test, (the general) the same day if you pass the technician. Just study for it. This is what I did. It lets you play on more frequencies.

For 2 meter and 70cm the technician is all you really need. Handheld radios put out up to about 8 watts, mobile vehicle units maybe 70 watts. If you are using a close repeater either one is just as good. If you are out in the boonies, probably the mobile is a better choice. The radio does not need to be high dollar. My handheld sells for $26, The mobiles start about a hundred, and maybe another $30 for an antenna setup. I bought mine used on Ebay.

See if there is a local ham club near you. The old timers love fresh meat to teach and try to impress.

 

[Goshawk]

Ham radio operator N1KTJ.

1). Two meter radios (aka 145 MHz frequency typical ) can communicate up to 50 miles. You need good power to do that. And a tall antenna mast. Figure $200 worth of equipment.

2). Small handheld beafung radios are $30 at Amazon. They can work if you are lucky. Quality is suspect. So make sure you have a ham radio buddy check out everything on that radio. Before you accept it as working right.

3). HF ham radio will work really long distance. Or around the world. Cost is $1000 worth of equipment between antenna. Radio. Power. Analyzers.

Read the various introduction books by ARRL to get a feel for it. Ask lots of questions. You can get a license in one week. Have seen it done. Read one book. Go through practice with question pool. Take a test.

Be prepared that there are a few trolls in ham radio. Ignore the trolls and you will find good advice from more open minded folks.


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[Goshawk]

Want to add comment about the different modes

1)two meter repeaters are popular enough. Yes you should have a radio that can use them. Repeaters are common but surprising are not listened too enough. Make sure you set you listening to scan repeaters and the simplex two meter frequency also.

2) UHF DMR radios (aka 440 MHz) are really popular and around $100. They are worth it because DMR repeaters are networked across states. So there are hundreds of people listening at any one time. There are three kinds of linked repeaters. DMR seems most popular.

3). HF radios can use CW morse code. Or SSB voice. It's pretty difficult to be heard if you have any noise nearby. But not impossible. You need to put in a lot of effort with HF to be effective. Barely hearing a radio signal is typical in HF. You have to get in that mind set. That you might not be heard even when you hear others clearly.


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[DannyB1954]

The lower bands make for an interesting hobby, but they are not all that practical for a vehicle. Their shortcoming there is the antenna, Lower frequencies use longer wavelength signals. To effectively transmit, the antenna needs to be quite long, ( the horizontal loop antenna in my backyard is over 300' long). There are workarounds to this, but they are a compromise, (not as effective). In the ham radio community they do have field days, (kind of a ham radio picnic), where long antennas are strung up by various means, (including shooting a bow and arrow over the top of a tree).

It really is a very diverse hobbie. Nobody does all of it. and nobody really knows it all. We are all students. This is why it is not a real embarrassment for even an old timer to ask a new guy about the latest stuff. At one point we were all totally clueless. As you become more familiar with the hobby, you may find a particular field that interests you and just work with that. Some like to build stuff.Today very few build their own radio, but many do try making their own antenna systems. Some like to talk to the international space station as it passes by, some like low wattage communication,( to see how far they can get out on very little power). Some just like to rag chew with other rag chewers.

Here is how the bands got named. Back during the early days technology was not all that advanced, so when they had frequencies that they considered to be high they named them high frequency,(HF). As technology progressed, they developed higher frequencies, so they named them Very High Frequency, (VHF). When higher frequencies were utilized they named them Ultra High Frequency, (UHF).

 

[DannyB1954]

On the Chinese radios, As a whole, they seem to be pretty good. The handhelds that I use are the Baofeng UV-82 and UV82HP, (The HP stands for high power) They are commercial rated radio and are pretty tough. They don't like cooking on a dashboard in Southern Nevada, but then what does? When it cooled down it worked just fine. You can program it manually, but with a computer is the easiest. There are better respected brands like ICOM Kenwood, Yaesu, etc, but I am pretty sure they are made in China now as well.

My mobile rig is a used Alinco that I got on Ebay. I think I paid like $100 for it. My home rig is an Icom IC-7100. It is actualy a mobile unit that can do it all, (and they charge accordingly for it).

You can get into ham radio on a pretty small budget, or If you want the latest and greatest you better have a good charge card. There may be a ham swap meet, they call them hamfests, where you can get good used stuff at a reasonable price, then there is always Ebay.

 

[speedhighway46]

To expand on DannyB1954's comments:

In the very early days of "wireless" there were only communications using Morse Code and broad banded spark gap transmitters. Technology at the time concluded that radio communications was possible only with wavelengths longer than 200 meters; what today we would call very low frequency (VLF). Commercial interests had no intent to use any bandwidth shorter than 200 meters, hence "high frequency." It was given to the hams because no one wanted it. 

It wasn't until the Amateur Radio operators developed the technology to utilize these HF frequencies did commercial interests take any notice of this frequency space; running from approximately 1.5 MHz to 30 MHz.

The Amateur services around the globe still maintain frequency allocations in the 160, 80, 60, 40, 20, 15 and 10 meter bands; although government and commercial applications are always attempting to take these allocations away from Amateur use so they can be commercialized.

Later came the technology to utilize the Very High Frequency and Ultra High Frequency spectrum areas; then most recently the microwave frequencies.

That's why high frequency is called HF when it isn't very high at all based upon today's technology.

 

[wayne49]

On the Chinese radios, As a whole, they seem to be pretty good. The handhelds that I use are the Baofeng UV-82 and UV82HP, (The HP stands for high power) They are commercial rated radio and are pretty tough.  They don't like cooking on a dashboard in Southern Nevada, but then what does? When it cooled down it worked just fine. You can program it manually, but with a computer is the easiest. There are better respected brands like ICOM Kenwood, Yaesu, etc, but I am pretty sure they are made in China now as well.  

My mobile rig is a used Alinco that I got on Ebay. I think I paid like $100 for it. My home rig is an Icom IC-7100. It is actualy a mobile unit that can do it all, (and they charge accordingly for it).

You can get into ham radio on a pretty small budget, or If you want the latest and greatest you better have a good charge card. There may be a ham swap meet, they call them hamfests, where you can get good used stuff at a reasonable price, then there is always Ebay.

Southern Nevada and electronics. When temp is 100+F and I want to charge my phone or mobile hotspot, I have to put them in the refrigerator first. Cool them down and then the charger will be able to do its job.

Back to Amateur Radio.

Amargosa Valley has an Amateur Radio club. Meets monthly.

 

[freerangetortoise]

KM6DFX here.

As a new HAM radio operator myself, I'm going to vouch for the Baofeng UV-5R with a Nagoya NA-771 rubber ducky. I can hit a local repeater and just yesterday reached an American living in Jerusalem! Of course, the repeater did all the work and but I read him loud and clear on my $40 radio. It wasnt too big of an investment if I decide I'm bored with Ham radio later the low cost and small size justifies it's occupied space in my van. From what I gather, having a cheap Chinese radio nowadays is almost a rite of passage.

73's to you!

 

[towhee]

I am interested in ham radio. It will be a while before I move forward with my interest. But here is a link I saved that seems to offer some good clarification.

http://forum.salinepreservation.org/post/2-meter-radio-6552316

Part of my motivation for learning ham radio and getting the equipment would be emergency preparedness (earthquake etc) and part would be getting out of trouble in a more personal emergency as in getting stuck or broken down out of cell phone service in remote and less visited places.

 

[AngryVanMan]

Having access to a long distance form of communication that works without the need for infrastructure of any kind was considered akin to magic when it was first invented. It's sad that over a century later, most people do not have access to this basic capability. Without permission from a third party to use their network, and a monthly bill to go with it, most people would be unable to communicate beyond their line of sight in 2016.

My co-pilot passed her Technician's license exam at Dayton Hamvention after looking over the question pool the night before in our hotel room for a few minutes. If only cell phones and the Internet had such a low barrier to entry - buying a piece of equipment (radio) and taking a simple, inexpensive test for basic proficiency. I <3 Ham Radio #4ever!

 

[Goshawk]

KM6DFX here.

As a new HAM radio operator myself, I'm going to vouch for the Baofeng UV-5R with a Nagoya NA-771 rubber ducky. I can hit a local repeater and just yesterday reached an American living in Jerusalem! Of course, the repeater did all the work and but I read him loud and clear on my $40 radio. It wasnt too big of an investment if I decide I'm bored with Ham radio later the low cost and small size justifies it's occupied space in my van. From what I gather, having a cheap Chinese radio nowadays is almost a rite of passage.

73's to you!

what this note means is that the hand held radio, talked to the repeater tower.  the repeater tower then had a link to an international radio frequency that allowed talking to others long distance.  Repeaters with this capability are rare.  So don't expect that to work.  But you can always try to talk to local folks via a repeater.

 

[Goshawk]

Having access to a long distance form of communication that works without the need for infrastructure of any kind was considered akin to magic when it was first invented.  It's sad that over a century later, most people do not have access to this basic capability.  Without permission from a third party to use their network, and a monthly bill to go with it, most people would be unable to communicate beyond their line of sight in 2016.

My co-pilot passed her Technician's license exam at Dayton Hamvention after looking over the question pool the night before in our hotel room for a few minutes.  If only cell phones and the Internet had such a low barrier to entry - buying a piece of equipment (radio) and taking a simple, inexpensive test for basic proficiency.  I <3 Ham Radio #4ever!

please remember that you can buy a radio today, with no licenses and use it to communicate true emergencies; NO LICENSE REQUIRED.  The laws all say you can use any means possible and any frequency possible in an emergency, regardless of license. 
You run into difficulty when you don't understand how to set up a HF antenna to talk long distance, and don't realize that HF sometimes skips over everything local for communication (unless you use NVIS)