Your thoughts on combining kitchen sink and shower?

[highdesertranger]

so draining grey water straight to the ground is not allowed in many areas. also in some areas dish water is considered black water, I don't know anywhere that allows dumping black water. these rules are only going to get more wide spread as time goes on. I just want to make sure everybody is aware of this. highdesertranger

 

[swlands]

A shower tent lets the water fall on the ground. That is legit?
Inside shower water is greywater and is not legit to drop on the ground?
I was expecting to use a shower tent, or available facilities, but knowledge is power.

 

[Inti]

so draining grey water straight to the ground is not allowed in many areas.  also in some areas dish water is considered black water,  I don't know anywhere that allows dumping black water.  these rules are only going to get more wide spread as time goes on.  I just want to make sure everybody is aware of this.  highdesertranger

That's why I probably would prefer a small and easy to carry grey water tank. I guess it would be easier to find a place to empty it.

 

[highdesertranger]

"A shower tent lets the water fall on the ground. That is legit?
Inside shower water is greywater and is not legit to drop on the ground?"

it depends on where you are at. you need to research for the area you want to be in.

it is never ok in National Parks. also there are area restrictions like along the Klamath River in Northern California. it seems to me that it is also illegal in the LTVA's.

like I said dumping grey water in some areas it's fine in other areas it's not. also what is considered grey water is different depending on where you are.

remember ignorance of the law is no excuse, know what you are and are not allowed to do.

highdesertranger

 

[66788]

That's why I installed a 17 gallon gray water tank in my van. I also have 33 gallons of fresh water, a 6 gallon Suburban water heater, and a 32 inch one piece fiberglass shower stall.

Going to bed grungy is no fun...

 

[swlands]

I worked in the wilderness for months on end in the 70's and basically we never showered. Ever. Just took a swim or stank. But we had rivers and creeks wherever we went, or ocean. Salt water had to be rinsed off with fresh. I remember tossing clothes in a river with rocks on them overnight. They were pretty clean the next day.

I see I will be talking to rangers on a regular basis, which I would be doing anyways. I like to know the local situation anyway. I never thought about the shower part, though. Too bad there are so many humans on the planet now. We mess up everything.

 

[BuckleBrown]

I am not sure who is part of the "we"...
But I leave a very light footprint and consume responsibly. I am certain many here do as well.
The earth is massive and there is plenty of land to support many more "responsible" people. It is like looking at a stock yard or a free range.
Anyone looking at the hordes of animals packed into filthy boundaries with massive amounts of sewage are  often shocked... or free range cattle using what they need and replenishing the earth with bio nutrient.
Stockyards are disgusting and so are most urban areas where  the activities of being an animal are magnified.

 

[crofter]

 Imagine how many dirty dishes it will be possible to accumulate 

Except that you have only one plate, one cup, one bowl, and one fork.   ~crofter

 

[crofter]

Kramer prepares a salad while taking a shower

Awesome gadget to install on the back porch, right?    ~crofter

 

[maki2]

I have always wondered why more people who want a shower inside their RV don't buy a floor mounted mop sink. They have much higher sides, typically 10" than a shower pan has. That way it is easy to tuck a shower curtain inside the base of the sink.

As to a kitchen sink, just make one that folds up or even lifts off a bracket on the wall. The sink drain and has a long flexible plastic drain tube that tucks down into the "mop sink shower pan" drain. The P trap is in the shower drain area, not at the kitchen sink. The kitchen faucet can be a spray nozzle on a bracket. We have two brackets in our shower at the workshop space. One is up at normal shower head height and the other is down low. My friend sits on a plastic step stool while washing his dog in the shower so that low hook is used to hold the shower head where it can be easilty reached. There is a turn off valve on the spray head.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/MUSTEE-...Mop-Basin-for-3-in-DWV-in-White-63M/202041495

 

[crofter]

I have always wondered why more people who want a shower inside their RV don't buy a floor mounted mop sink. 

For a shower option you are standing up in, why not just use a bin? It's much lighter in weight, can dump the gallon or so of water you used to shower into your black tank and then drive it over to the RV dump to dispose of it to keep all the soap out of the river.
@HDR, if you use biodegradable soap or no soap in your shower, do you still need to treat the used shower water as black water?    ~crofter

 

[crofter]

Couple of vids on greywater disposal while camping:



this one has BOTH Jim in Denver and Bob.

~crofter

 

[maki2]

For a shower option you are standing up in, why not just use a bin? It's much lighter in weight, can dump the gallon or so of water you used to shower into your black tank and then drive it over to the RV dump to dispose of it to keep all the soap out of the river.
@HDR, if you use biodegradable soap or no soap in your shower, do you still need to treat the used shower water as black water?    ~crofter

It is not all about what type of soap is used. That has somehow become a common misconception that gets spread all over the RV forums that if you bath and wash dishes with biodegradable soap your grey water can be dumped anywhere you please as long as it is not close to a stream or lake shore.

"Search Results
Featured snippet from the web
While gray water is a lot less harmful to people than the wastewater that leaves your toilet -- called black water -- it's still technically sewage. Dishwater contains particulate food matter, which may be rotten. ... And bath water may contain fecal matter and dead skin that sloughs off while you bathe."

If you are going to have an onboard shower and plan on taking daily showers then having a grey water tank is good for the environment because you can capture your sewage and take it to a designated disposal site. If you are in the desert and are one of those people who let shower water run out under your rig that is pretty dumb because you are asking for trouble with rats and mice and other creatures that can smell water from a long ways off. They will come under your rig and might just take up residence in your RV or do stuff like chew on wires. Newbies go on the internet and see that "so and so" has a shower that discreetly drains under their RV and think that is such an easy way to do things never realizing that there are going to be consequences to it such as attracting rats, mice, snakes, raccoons, skunks, etc.

 

[highdesertranger]

Biodegradable is one of those feel good terms. everything is biodegradable it just depends how long. nuclear waste is biodegradable just because it takes hundreds of thousands of years doesn't mean it's not biodegradable.

answer this, when you take a shower don't you wash your area that human waste comes out of? I hope so.

highdesertranger

 

[Inti]

I have always wondered why more people who want a shower inside their RV don't buy a floor mounted mop sink. They have much higher sides, typically 10" than a shower pan has.  That way it is easy to tuck a shower curtain inside the base of the sink.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/MUSTEE-...Mop-Basin-for-3-in-DWV-in-White-63M/202041495

Thank you for your help, this is a very good candidate for kitchen/shower combo  :thumbsup:  I had no idea about existence of mop sinks or mop service basins and now I know   , although I would prefer stainless steel like one of these - https://www.webstaurantstore.com/1053/mop-sinks.html, for example https://www.webstaurantstore.com/re...tanding-mop-sink-21-x-24-x-8/600SMFS2124.html

 

[Qxxx]

You should definitely do some prior tests on how "small" a shower pan you can successfully use. Eg 24x24 will be quite small and with high sides could lead to accidents.

 

[Inti]

You should definitely do some prior tests on how "small" a shower pan you can successfully use. Eg 24x24 will be quite small and with high sides could lead to accidents.

I just measured my pretty regular size bathtub: top inner width is only 24.5 and rounded bottom ... hard to say exactly but about 20 only. Of course, bathtub is much longer and safer because of the adjacent wall... so I guess it could be good to place shower pan close to countertop or van wall (or whatever solid) to provide similar safety level at least on one side. 
Of course, it could be totally cool to have some sort of handrails inside or outside of this pan (relative to curtain) but so far I have no idea how to implement that.

 

[B and C]

You need to measure across your shoulders to find out how much space your upper body needs at a minimum. Don't forget you need to move your ams to wash. The pan can be small but your upper body needs more room.

Edit to add: growing up we had a shower that was 32"x32". It was quite tight.

 

[maki2]

You are forgetting that you can have a shower curtain that is wide at the top but tucks down at the bottom where your body is narrower.

The walls of an enclosed shower in a house are often enclosed by two or three hard sided walls as well as a glass door. So that does mean that a 32 by 32 shower is not as roomy as a more typical larger shower. I once installed a shower that size in a very small under a steep sloped roof bathroom that previously only had a toilet and sink in it. We built a dog house dormer onto the roof that was just wide and tall enough to fit in the shower kit. I ordered the smallest size of operable vinyl window that was a standard size. It was a fun place to shower, it felt like being up in the trees and no curtain needed as no one could see anything but a head in the window. The window reduced the feeling of claustrophobia. It took a special glass walled shower that fit into a corner and had a split door so you can exit at the corner of the shower. Like the one in this link from Home Depot. https://www.homedepot.com/p/MAAX-Me...e-with-Sliding-Door-105605000129104/302756916

 

[rokguy]

Commercially the smallest shower tray you can buy here is 900mm X 900mm that's 35in X 35in square.
The shower unit I ended up building into my RV truck is roughly that size with a small raised niche for the toilet housing. because of the odd space built on the truck box original timber floor I had to fibreglass the tray myself turning up at the walls slightly then lining the walls with plastic shower wall sheet.
Effectively the compartment is a wet room with a small corner basin sink, captured greywater is reused on flower beds.
It's certainly not the most spacious bathroom by no means. I built an outside 12v solar shower to for summer use which hang off the side cargo door when in use with the water running straight onto the ground.

Here if you pour anything into the sewage system it ultimately ends up in the rivers or sea anyway and not very well treated.

I have more of a problem with drinkable freshwater in every house in most 1st world countries being flushed down the toilet.

Wasn't there a van conversion commercially available some time back "RoadtreK" I think it was, had the shower tray dropped into the middle of the floor with a toilet one side and basin other. You could pull a slide on both sides which effectively made it a good sized temporary bathroom.