When it's time to stop.

[Zerpersande]

Then Japan needs to change their thinking.

Yeah, I agree. But this is just the tip of the ‘things in Japan that need to change’ iceberg.

But the US it’s own iceberg and the tip of that iceberg needs to be melted. Specifically the frequency of the use of lethal force by police. Read the following article. Bet you money the wound is where it was because a true effort was made NOT to kill the suspect.

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/Osaka-police-officers-fire-guns-at-knife-wielding-man

 

[Lance22]

I been thinking about owning two properties. one around Arizona where I can have a tiny house with outdoor shower and build a nice home during the winter.

Then a northern home during the hot summer. Also I would take into consideration bus routes and train routes and airports.

For example a one way ticket from Flagstaff Az. to Billings Mt. is 350-450. Considering it's 1,100 mile drive in a minivan your talking 50 gallons of gas which is 200 bucks at 4 bucks a gallon.

Yes, much more desireable to just drive yourself but if you get to where you can't drive then flying could be a simple option while maintaining two homes in rural cheap areas.

Honestly I think in 5-15 years there is going to be a massive change to help balance things so people can afford to live in homes if they choose.

Me I would love to live in a tiny apartment in the city where I could still easily afford but when you start having to pay 50% of your take home pay to JUST rent and utilities then it just becomes your just working to pay rent and make OTHERS rich while you can't save for retirement or anything.

I think we are just seeing URBAN living becoming unaffordable, but with remote work and rural internet options I think we have a great new age where we can live in very rural areas cheap, and even better opportunities to live in seasonal areas extremely cheap!

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^Some things to consider. First if you can’t drive rural or remote doesn’t work well, internet isn’t quite good enough to replace a hospital or doctor visit. Second land ownership is expensive even if it allows you to “camp” on it and can require physical work you may have a hard time getting done especially in remote places. As I have gotten older I have found I don’t like the cold. Being a veteran I was able while interest rates were lower a few years back and I had saved enough money to buy a house in downtown Tucson and after a year of living there fixing it up AirBnb it in order to basically have a private entrance studio apartment for me in my own house at a total cost (insurance, utilities, taxes, and even a hot tub) to me of less than $400 a month. It gained equity enough that after a while to my surprise I could afford to buy a second small house on acre of land still in the city limits barely and yet zoned GR1 so I can pretty much make a few RV spaces and eventually have a house to rent as well. This has taken a few years to find and get done but it will benefit my children if not me in the long run. I’m probably in my last year of seasonal work but as long as I can drive, stay healthy and visit places I like why not work a little for housing and pay? I have never been a rich person and gone bankrupt trying to raise a family but after doing so, turning 65 and getting Medicare along with Social Security, continuing to live simply and work things just might work out in my case.

 

[NctryBen]

I hate the idea that my health insurance providers want me to be held captive in Minnesota. But I have to admit… I feel better when drs are not involved. But, I’d be dead if it wasn’t for them. So I must balance… but I think it’s crazy they want you to stay home in a little tiny “network” when just going south in the winter helps so much in its self.

 

[bullfrog !]

Another advantage to being a veteran although you are assigned a primary provider. Hard to believe only 1% of our population is active military and most branches numbers are below required staffing!

 

[RonDean]

Zerpersande, Yes, I misunderstood. Thanks for the explanation.

I was the OP on this thread and it HAS wandered about a bit. I think that is not necessarily a bad thing when the general subject is matter is more or less of interest to the same audience.

Now, I need to see if I can find out what happened to my computer. It seems to have changed this forum to a mobile phone view. I hate that!

 

[RonDean]

After reading Lance22's thoughts about having north/south dwellings, I have mixed feelings.

I am a reformed (?) ex-hippy who can still remember flower power and the first Earth Day. I read Mother Earth News cover to cover and dreamed of owning an Earthship home. I imagined methane generators, solar hot water, and so on... But, I finally adjusted to the majority culture and worked regular hours, drove a regular car, and lived in a regular home. That didn't mean I stopped caring about my planet. So, here I am today, retired and traveling around and trying to do as little harm as I can.

I love the travel (mostly) but hate that I am burning fossil fuel and messing up the climate to do it. I think affordable EV-RVs are still a long way off. Although I am still capable of safe driving, I know the day will come when that might become questionable. My health is still pretty good. But, all that is why I started this thread. I am looking for alternatives while I still have a choice. Maybe if there were inexpensive stopping places along an environmentally responsible public transportation network, I would do that. But, I just don't see that happening soon, if at all.

That leaves (as far as I can see) planning on settling down somewhere. Maybe Lance22's north/south idea is as good as it can get?

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^Basically that is what many have done. Even those living completely mobile often do loops revisiting areas where seasons match their desired temperatures. For various reasons some take breaks from living on the road in their RV or van. Some take commercial trips to cheap destinations or bike/hike in areas that would be difficult or expensive to do to in their rig. Others may have medical needs and rent a room or apartment either In this country or a country where medical services are cheaper. Some go with groups on cruises or attend gatherings. Some alternate between living on a boat on the water and a RV on land. There are lots of options. I usually take a seasonal job with housing which helps fund some of those things above which provides a break as well. If you like earth ships maybe go visit New Mexico and see about the tiny ones I have recently seen being developed!

 

[RonDean]

Bullfrog1, I get your drift and can "somewhat" go with some of that. Most of those solutions are not where and what I want to do. Others have some merit but just do not address my particular situation. Nor was that really the original question I was posing. I thought my situation might be more common and others might have found better solutions that the ones you listed. And maybe I have found cheap (enough) land I can buy and where I can park for longer spells and slowly reduce my miles as necessary.

If that doesn't work out, I just might need to find an old hippy's home or commune. I did see something like that in a you tube video a while back.

 

[Texas Gypsy]

I bought a vehicle with a lot of thought. My health has deteriorated rapidly over the last 3 years since I had covid. Covid fried my kidneys. Received a kidney transplant and the meds have fried the rest of my body. I'm in my early 50's. I have no family or friends to call on. Ever want to sort through your friends rapidly?....need a kidney!
So I bought a shuttle bus with a working wheelchair lift. I'm not doing a build. I will put my twin size adjustable bed in. The only thing that was installed when I bought it was a removable RV table and it had 2 of those boxy dinette seats set in that I was able to give away. The location of the table is convenient to the wheelchair lift so I can use my chair on one side of the table and put a small portable closet between the table and the drivers seat. That will give me maximum storage as I can use the blank side of the closet facing the table to hang items on.
I have a really cool little free-standing sink. Then I have a jackknife sofa mounted on a custom frame so that I can place my 100 gallon water tank under it. I suppose the couch will be built in since it will be bolted down to secure the tank. That still leaves lots of space for medical equipment.
I have a lot with an RV cover, concrete pad and full hook ups less than 20 minutes from a large city in Missouri if I need to occupy it. I'm hoping to sell it and buy something similar in AZ.
So basically I have planned to live out my life in this vehicle.

You mentioned Mexico. I am a long time permanent resident of Mexico. Thank goodness I acquired residency back when the qualifying income was reasonable. It definitely is not reasonable now! To find out what the current residency requirements are....look up your nearest Mexican consulate in the US. It will list the current income requirements. The residency process is begun at a Mexican consulate in your home country. If you have questions feel free to either tag me or message me.
I'm currently in Mexico and have been checking into assisted living facilities. The deal killer is not being able to get health insurance here. While medical is much less than in the US, when you are paying out of pocket for hospitalization it adds up quickly.
I speak passable Spanish but if you don't, you are pretty much limited to living in a Gringo area and only using English speaking Drs.....which translates to paying double or more the regular price.

 

[RonDean]

I bought a vehicle with a lot of thought. My health has deteriorated rapidly over the last 3 years since I had covid. Covid fried my kidneys. Received a kidney transplant and the meds have fried the rest of my body. I'm in my early 50's. I have no family or friends to call on. Ever want to sort through your friends rapidly?....need a kidney!
So I bought a shuttle bus with a working wheelchair lift. I'm not doing a build. I will put my twin size adjustable bed in. The only thing that was installed when I bought it was a removable RV table and it had 2 of those boxy dinette seats set in that I was able to give away. The location of the table is convenient to the wheelchair lift so I can use my chair on one side of the table and put a small portable closet between the table and the drivers seat. That will give me maximum storage as I can use the blank side of the closet facing the table to hang items on.
I have a really cool little free-standing sink. Then I have a jackknife sofa mounted on a custom frame so that I can place my 100 gallon water tank under it. I suppose the couch will be built in since it will be bolted down to secure the tank. That still leaves lots of space for medical equipment.
I have a lot with an RV cover, concrete pad and full hook ups less than 20 minutes from a large city in Missouri if I need to occupy it. I'm hoping to sell it and buy something similar in AZ.
So basically I have planned to live out my life in this vehicle.

You mentioned Mexico. I am a long time permanent resident of Mexico. Thank goodness I acquired residency back when the qualifying income was reasonable. It definitely is not reasonable now! To find out what the current residency requirements are....look up your nearest Mexican consulate in the US. It will list the current income requirements. The residency process is begun at a Mexican consulate in your home country. If you have questions feel free to either tag me or message me.
I'm currently in Mexico and have been checking into assisted living facilities. The deal killer is not being able to get health insurance here. While medical is much less than in the US, when you are paying out of pocket for hospitalization it adds up quickly.
I speak passable Spanish but if you don't, you are pretty much limited to living in a Gringo area and only using English speaking Drs.....which translates to paying double or more the regular price.

TG: Thanks for the reply. It was helpful in my thinking.

 

[outermostsoul2]

I live in ’another country’ with socialized medicine. I went to the dentist the other day and paid the equivalent of $3.50 for a filling. A few years ago I stayed in the hospital forbover a month and had weekly heart cath procedures to put in 4 stents. In-patient with all services was about $1800. There’s a monthly cap of a bit less than that and I had straddled two months by a few days. Most people pay 30% of costs but you can see from the costs I just listed that the costs themselves are well controlled. 99% of the population is covered. Monthly costs are on a sliding scale. Nobody is refusedvtreatment. Ambulance service is like protection by the police and fire depts…free. And this 99% coverage includes dental. About a third of Americans have no dental insurance.

The only influence they have over when I live and die is if I need some new treatment that approval hasn’t been given for. Not sure of the transplant situation but they have seemed to be a couple of steps behind the US over the past 30 years of my stay here. I’ve never heard of anyone I know not being covered by anything.

What countries are you referencing with such policies as to who lives and dies? Perhaps you’re experiencing a knee-jerk reaction to the word ‘socialized medicine’ sounding like ‘socialism’?

The real Death Squad country is and always has been good old USA. Once Nixon started the ball rolling to get HMO s to replace real insurance the costs went through the roof. I loved my ACA insurance but became disabled at 61 and at 63 was forced onto Medicare. I have traditional Medicare. Much worse and more expensive than ACA but at least I do get care when I can find a doctor. My friends who got suckered into those " Advantage" plans wait forever for approvals . Those constant phone you get every enrollment period are from private companies contracted to lure you away from traditional Medicare with their little benefits. They all get a huge commission ( every month for as long as you are enrolled for each person who falls for the scam.) Even if I could benefit from that garbage I refuse to participate in the sell out to private insurance that this evil plan ensures. As a traditional Medicare consumer I can get treated anywhere. No networks no pre-approvals. Sorry so long but a close friend got jerked around for more than a YEAR with serious health issues by United Healrhcare . She dropped it and went back to traditional.

 

[RonDean]

The real Death Squad country is and always has been good old USA. Once Nixon started the ball rolling to get HMO s to replace real insurance the costs went through the roof. I loved my ACA insurance but became disabled at 61 and at 63 was forced onto Medicare. I have traditional Medicare. Much worse and more expensive than ACA but at least I do get care when I can find a doctor. My friends who got suckered into those " Advantage" plans wait forever for approvals . Those constant phone you get every enrollment period are from private companies contracted to lure you away from traditional Medicare with their little benefits. They all get a huge commission ( every month for as long as you are enrolled for each person who falls for the scam.) Even if I could benefit from that garbage I refuse to participate in the sell out to private insurance that this evil plan ensures. As a traditional Medicare consumer I can get treated anywhere. No networks no pre-approvals. Sorry so long but a close friend got jerked around for more than a YEAR with serious health issues by United Healrhcare . She dropped it and went back to traditional.

This is one of those subjects that is difficult to discuss without crossing the line into the dreaded "politics." But, I'll try.

Simple logic tells me that Taxes>Insurance companies>Doctors will leave less money for actual care than would Taxes>Doctors.

The insurance companies and big pharma in the US are making buckets of money that in other countries are actually going to health care. The United States is the highest spending country worldwide when it comes to health care. Prices of prescription drugs in the U.S. are 2.4 times higher than the average prices of nine other similar nations. One would think this should give the US the best care. NOPE!

Try getting an accurate quote before a hospital stay and you will find that's impossible. I recently discovered that some people in some ares could actually have their share of Medicare paid so I did an on-line search. All I ended up with were links to the different "Advantage Plans." And as far as getting a real breakdown on the difference care and costs between them and standard Medicare, not much help there either. Both the government and private web sites are more concerned with helping sell for-profit insurance than answering patient questions. The last time I saw a doctor I told him that US medical system SUCKS and all he could do was sadly nod his head and agree.

A search for "what countries have a better health care system than the US." results in: "The top-performing countries overall are Norway, the Netherlands, and Australia. The United States ranks last overall, despite spending far more of its gross domestic product on health care." Health Care, Homelessness, Military, Education, you name it, the US stubbornly refuses to look outside our own borders to find plans and ideas that work better. Why?

A study that was done to try and figure this out found the opinions of 90% of Americans have essentially no impact at all on what laws get passed. https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba While the opinions of the bottom 90% of income earners in America have a “statistically non-significant impact,” economic elites, business interests, and people who can afford lobbyists still carry major influence. And there you have it. The people and companies that are enriched by our current systems have no intention of allowing us to change it.

 

[camperdan]

Housing is or should be a concern for everyone. Not just people currently living in sticks and bricks and not just those living on the street. And not just the affluent McMansion residents that hate the poor people trashing up the streets nearby and impacting home prices or wanting so much affordable housing that their own unaffordable (to many of us) home prices might drop somewhat. I recently read an article in The Atlantic about successful steps that Montana has taken that are already helping. But I think waiting for the government to act is a fool’s game. Some on this forum might ask, “helping what?” And I understand that sentiment.

Many of us are full-time nomads by choice. Or at least we claim to be. I DO like traveling! But as I approach 80 YO I begin to worry about what I will do when my traveling days are over. When My body just cannot take the strain such a life brings. Yes, I have a family I can fall back on. Not everyone is so lucky. And I hate to have to depend on that always being the case.

I think then I may discover I have a lot more in common with the homeless or those spending so much on housing that they are otherwise destitute. Whilst I can live semi-comfortably on my Social Security and modest savings in the RV life - if I mostly boondock and visit friends and family along the way. I know that will not be the case if I am forced to settle down and pay what passes for minimum rentals in most places I would not mind settling down.

This is why I have followed and commented on threads that strayed into discussions about homelessness and RV Park living. Or threads talking about semi-affordable land. I wonder if I am the only one on this forum looking for a better solution while I can still make some personal choices. Does anyone have any reasonably good ideas about where we could park our rigs or return to a S&B lifestyle at an affordable price when the time comes? And please don’t suggest Jackson MS again. I hope never to be that desperate!

I know many seem to like the desert SW, but I would prefer somewhere that is not about to go totally dry. And with rising temperatures, I would prefer not to be sitting in a mostly metal box in the desert sun. I have considered Mexico, but that seems to have its own set of issues. Are any other solutions out there I have not heard of yet? Or do I just hope I can last until Montana's housing solutions finally bear fruit?

Hello Ron, You have brought up the subject that floats in and out of my 77 yr-old mind: what is Plan B?, when I can't travel/be a nomad anymore? Based on the responses, I would venture to say this may be the most important thread of the year. Anyway, I have done some
searches and and explored the possibilities of 1-Tiny Home Villages for low income, 2-"low-income housing" 3- Buying land with like-minded people you know. The first two are going to produce the same ideas for all who search. Number 3 is what I will focus on for this time. The basic idea that appeals to me is cooperative buying a few acres with enough room for privacy for all, but also room for visitors for a defined time. And even reach out to the "Boondockers Welcome" group, where for a small fee, off-the-grid folks can come and stay a few days. this is all fine and good but two things come to mind here. 1) Price of land increases as it is more convenient to services. 2) In most areas two things are going to be a given: a) installing a leach field/ septic tank per local zoning b) Paying to have water hauled in, to be pumped into a communal tank of some size.

There has been an expression of concern regarding the southwest and baking in the sun in the desert in a tin box. I get it. Both NM and AZ offer elevations from 1000 ft. to over 8000 ft, where you can adjust your location depending on the season. BUT, what if you don't want to move around anymore. Period. Good question. If you like the idea of buying land , it should be in a four-season elevation....4000ft - 5000 ft. Where you won't roast or freeze. It is definitely challenging if you are not connected to shore power.

There is a 4th possibility.....a very affordable RV Park. Put your RV there and skirt it for winter. I havve run across $200/ month to $350 / month in pretty good areas. One that comes to mind in AZ is in the Sierra Vista area at 4600 ft. RV parks are quite affordable there.

 

[jacqueg]

Hello Ron, You have brought up the subject that floats in and out of my 77 yr-old mind: what is Plan B?, when I can't travel/be a nomad anymore? Based on the responses, I would venture to say this may be the most important thread of the year. Anyway, I have done some
searches and and explored the possibilities of 1-Tiny Home Villages for low income, 2-"low-income housing" 3- Buying land with like-minded people you know. The first two are going to produce the same ideas for all who search. Number 3 is what I will focus on for this time. The basic idea that appeals to me is cooperative buying a few acres with enough room for privacy for all, but also room for visitors for a defined time. And even reach out to the "Boondockers Welcome" group, where for a small fee, off-the-grid folks can come and stay a few days. this is all fine and good but two things come to mind here. 1) Price of land increases as it is more convenient to services. 2) In most areas two things are going to be a given: a) installing a leach field/ septic tank per local zoning b) Paying to have water hauled in, to be pumped into a communal tank of some size.

There has been an expression of concern regarding the southwest and baking in the sun in the desert in a tin box. I get it. Both NM and AZ offer elevations from 1000 ft. to over 8000 ft, where you can adjust your location depending on the season. BUT, what if you don't want to move around anymore. Period. Good question. If you like the idea of buying land , it should be in a four-season elevation....4000ft - 5000 ft. Where you won't roast or freeze. It is definitely challenging if you are not connected to shore power.

There is a 4th possibility.....a very affordable RV Park. Put your RV there and skirt it for winter. I havve run across $200/ month to $350 / month in pretty good areas. One that comes to mind in AZ is in the Sierra Vista area at 4600 ft. RV parks are quite affordable there.

I've often contemplated buying an older RV park - you know, one from the 50s or 60s that is filled with ancient single-wides - and gradually converting it to a tiny home village. Gradually, because kicking out the people who are hanging on to those old trailers is not something I could do.

Alas, no capital have I.

 

[bullfrog !]

Most have been bought and repurposed into new expensive housing I believe or become very expensive rentals.

 

[SLB_SA]

Hello Ron, You have brought up the subject that floats in and out of my 77 yr-old mind: what is Plan B?, when I can't travel/be a nomad anymore? Based on the responses, I would venture to say this may be the most important thread of the year. Anyway, I have done some
searches and and explored the possibilities of 1-Tiny Home Villages for low income, 2-"low-income housing" 3- Buying land with like-minded people you know. The first two are going to produce the same ideas for all who search. Number 3 is what I will focus on for this time. The basic idea that appeals to me is cooperative buying a few acres with enough room for privacy for all, but also room for visitors for a defined time. And even reach out to the "Boondockers Welcome" group, where for a small fee, off-the-grid folks can come and stay a few days. this is all fine and good but two things come to mind here. 1) Price of land increases as it is more convenient to services. 2) In most areas two things are going to be a given: a) installing a leach field/ septic tank per local zoning b) Paying to have water hauled in, to be pumped into a communal tank of some size.

There has been an expression of concern regarding the southwest and baking in the sun in the desert in a tin box. I get it. Both NM and AZ offer elevations from 1000 ft. to over 8000 ft, where you can adjust your location depending on the season. BUT, what if you don't want to move around anymore. Period. Good question. If you like the idea of buying land , it should be in a four-season elevation....4000ft - 5000 ft. Where you won't roast or freeze. It is definitely challenging if you are not connected to shore power.

There is a 4th possibility.....a very affordable RV Park. Put your RV there and skirt it for winter. I havve run across $200/ month to $350 / month in pretty good areas. One that comes to mind in AZ is in the Sierra Vista area at 4600 ft. RV parks are quite affordable there.

There are lots of rural "midwestern" communities (in Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, etc.) that are losing population, where one can buy houses in small communities quite cheaply and where the weather is more moderate than North Dakota or Montana or Minnesota. Some of these communities even pay you to move in. If you are done traveling, you might consider buying a cheap house in southern Illinois or central Missouri or western Nebraska. With bankruptcies on the rise, you might find a cheap house at a local tax auction. Iowa has retired-friendly tax policies.

 

[bullfrog !]

For those used to living in smaller spaces that don’t want to deal with older house problems there are new tiny home communities with lots you can rent or buy as well.

 

[rruff]

There is a 4th possibility.....a very affordable RV Park. Put your RV there and skirt it for winter. I havve run across $200/ month to $350 / month in pretty good areas. One that comes to mind in AZ is in the Sierra Vista area at 4600 ft. RV parks are quite affordable there.

Sierra Vista, really... where? That isn't a cheap area, and if it's near town that would be a very good deal. Farther east, south of Wilcox I could imagine cheaper RV parks.

 

[bullfrog !]

There are some lower priced parks in south east Arizona but most are around $350 to $450 on the lower end with a 12 month lease if they are full hookups. There are individuals that last year offered to basically share their land with limited water and no other hookups for $150 to $200 a month. Lots in the boondocking area at Caballo Loco with a year lease as I understand it are $1200 a year or $100 a month. The farther you get from major cities the more expenses you will have getting to hospitals and grocery stores also it is cooler/colder as you get closer to New Mexico or northern Arizona. LTVAs are still popular because they are cheapest, easiest and most convenient if you are set up to boondock long term in my opinion. There are many other advantages to the community at Caballo Loco but only if you like, need and use them. It is a 1/2 hour dirt road to pavement and an hour total to Tucson so you will incur some traveling costs as well staying there.