Wasp Spray for Self Defense

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Over the years, I've noticed a number of posts about using Wasp Spray for Self Defense.

It's gradually dawned on me that of all the posts I've seen, not ONE of them claimed to be by someone who had actually USED it successfully in a self defense scenario.

It's always a THEORY about why it SHOULD be effective.

So we have people being told not to carry pepper spray, which has been documented to be effective for over 20 years now, and instead carry wasp spray, for which there is absolutely NO documentation that it actually works.

I tried doing a little research on the subject and found an excellent article on American Preppers Network.  http://americanpreppersnetwork.com/2014/01/does-bear-spray-or-wasp-spay-work-for-self-defense.html

Here's an excerpt from it:

Using Wasp Spray for Self Defense

I constantly receive email forwards from friends and family about using wasp spray for self-defense and have to admit for a period of time I just accepted the information at face value. I mean it made sense, it kills wasps at the drop of a hat and has a long range – who would want a face full of it? Then they’d have to see a doctor right? However as time went on and I sought out professional self-defense instruction, everyone I asked said the same thing – don’t use it. There are two very good reasons for not counting on wasp spray for self-defense.

Wasp Spray doesn’t work like pepper spray does.

 Police departments worldwide use pepper spray (not wasp spray) because the inflammatory effects of ‘capsaicin’ (exact chemical that provides heat) affects those who cannot feel pain or are in state of mind that prevents them from reacting to pain (copious amounts of adrenaline and illegal drugs can prevent people from feeling pain).  The involuntarily inflammatory effects of pepper spray on the human body causes eyes to close, water profusely and produces a ‘loss of breath sensation’ which results in coughing and gaging. Pepper spray has statically been proven effective on deterring and incapacitating aggressive, combative, intoxicated individuals for over 20 years. (Source)

Alternatively someone in a condition where they aren’t feeling pain may be able to fight through the effects of wasp spray which is a neurotoxin and ranges from a minor to mild annoyance. Wasp spray is indeed toxic but vision loss does not occur instantly and usually results from a long exposure without treatment.

While some people have had immediate adverse reactions to accidentally being exposed to wasp spray, most ERs report that patients are willing and able to transport themselves to receive medical care and only experience mild irritation. (Source)

The article has a link to a news story about a couple that tried to use wasp spray against a home intruder and found it had no effect.  The wife ended up stabbing the guy to death with a kitchen knife while he was struggling with her husband AFTER being sprayed with wasp spray.

The article also has a link to a Youtube  video of a news crew that was sprayed with wasp spray when they tried pulling a "60 minutes style ambush/interview" on someone.  It had no effect on them.

For comparison purposes, she also links to a Youtube video of Marines training with OC spray.

Next time someone recommends wasp spray to you, ask them if they've ever actually USED it for self-defense?  If the answer is no, tell to stop believing all the bullshit they read on the Internet.

BTW, the second half of the article is about using bear spray on humans.  Good read.  You might be surprised to learn that Bear Spray can be LESS powerful than SOME human sprays.

Regards
John

 

[Van-Tramp]

Full agreement

 

[Van-Tramp]

It says it right on the can

Here is a great site for you to read: http://oklahomapersonaldefense.com/waspspraymyth.html
and I will quote the first paragraph to summarize...

As a professional personal defense instructor who has researched many self-defense products and legalities, I can tell you there are two things very wrong with using wasp spray for self-defense. One, federal law prohibits the use of any pesticide in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. That means it's a felony to use it on a person. Two, and perhaps most importantly, it DOES NOT WORK!

A felony to use, and it DOES NOT WORK are all that needs to be said, but they go on..

Title 21, Section 651, of the Oklahoma Statutes:
§21651. Poison, attempt to kill by administering.

Any person who, with intent to kill, administers or causes or procures to be administered to another any poison which is actually taken by such other person but by which death is not caused shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not less than ten (10) years.

Yes, that is right. A MANDATORY 10+ year sentence for using wasp spray (poison) even if that other person does not die. If he/she dies, then you can probably kiss the rest of your life goodbye. And all this for something that "DOES NOT WORK"

Just use the right tool for the job.

 

[Van-Tramp]

and more
http://www.resistattack.org/Articles/Pepper-Spray/Can-You-Use-Wasp-Spray-Against-An-Attacker

and even the cops say it
http://www.popville.com/2010/12/mpd-no-you-may-not-use-wasp-spray-for-self-defense/


Whoops, this is all for wasp spray, not pepper spray, sorry. [Mod's Note: Split from Pepper Spray thread and put into Wasp Spray thread.]

 

[Van-Tramp]

Thank you mod

 

[LeeRevell]

Basically always use the correct tool for the job.
Bear spray is generally about two percent capzacin.  Pepper spray for self defense is five percent, or ten percent for "the good stuff".
That is about as good as it gets for non-fatal defense unless you have a black belt.
Or call 9-1-1.  When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

 

[compassrose]

One of my daughters and I took a self defense class for women while still living in TN. The female instructors we cops. They told us a specific place to buy the pepper spray from. They told us it was the same strength as the cops used. They said the typical stuff sold at other places were often not as strong. They really did not advocate pepper spray. They had run into too many people that had their pepper spray used on them. An alternative was to carry a boat horn. You know, those canned air powered boat horns. They advocated leaving the danger and/or attracting as much attention as possible. Flee should be our first response. If fleeing was not an option, THEN we fight to hinder and flee. In all cases, the ultimate object was to flee. In TN, the courts recognize that a person has a private space to the length of their out-stretched arm. If my private space was invaded, I have the right to protect myself as I see fit.

The canned air boat horns can be bought in many places and also work to scare dogs & wildlife off as well.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

One of my daughters and I took a self defense class for women while still living in TN. The female instructors we cops. They told us a specific place to buy the pepper spray from. They told us it was the same strength as the cops used. They said the typical stuff sold at other places were often not as strong. They really did not advocate pepper spray. They had run into too many people that had their pepper spray used on them. An alternative was to carry a boat horn. You know, those canned air powered boat horns. They advocated leaving the danger and/or attracting as much attention as possible. Flee should be our first response. If fleeing was not an option, THEN we fight to hinder and flee. In all cases, the ultimate object was to flee. In TN, the courts recognize that a person has a private space to the length of their out-stretched arm. If my private space was invaded, I have the right to protect myself as I see fit.

The canned air boat horns can be bought in many places and also work to scare dogs & wildlife off as well.

I tend to take anything that cop instructors tell the public with a grain of salt.  They're not going to say anything that their chief doesn't approve of, and their chief ain't gonna approve of anything that HIS bosses - the mayor, the town council, the police commissioner - disapprove of.  So you may not be getting the whole story, or even the right story from them.

Here in New York, there is an obligation to retreat, everywhere but inside your home.  If I CAN retreat (safely) then I MUST retreat.  If I shoot somebody, and they can show that I could have retreated but didn't, the courts will not allow a claim of self-defense.

Wikipedia has an article on stand your ground laws.  Apparently, 22 states now have them.  Which means that 28 states still have "duty to retreat" laws like NY.

In NY, the "castle doctrine" applies ONLY to your home, not your yard, your driveway, or any other property, but in some states you have no duty to retreat if you are anywhere on your own property.

Regards
John

PS:  Probably a good idea for us traveling types to keep a list handy of which states are stand your ground and which aren't

 

[Van-Tramp]

Also, some states (like my Colorado) consider your car (or even a tent, or cardboard box if that is what you live in) a literal extension of your "home" and can be defended with lethal force without any need of retreat.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Also, some states (like my Colorado) consider your car (or even a tent, or cardboard box if that is what you live in) a literal extension of your "home" and can be defended with lethal force without any need of retreat.

And remember, you only have a duty to retreat if you can do so SAFELY.  If your assailant(s) are younger, thinner, and clearly faster than you are, your lawyer should have no problem claiming you couldn't retreat safely.

Regards
John

 

[WriterMs]

It is interesting and corrective to read the info on the non-effectiveness of wasp spray, as I am one of the women who years and years ago heard recommendations for it as a cheap and long-reaching deterrent. It's length of spray being a major factor -- we liked the idea of keeping a predator 20 feet away.

I do have a comment on the quote about the felony aspect. Here is the Oklahoma quote:

Any person who, with intent to kill, administers or causes or procures to be administered to another any poison which is actually taken by such other person but by which death is not caused shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not less than ten (10) years.


The BIG thing is the first part of the law -- a person having the "intent to KILL' is the operative part of the whole quote. It says you cannot use such poisons with the intent to kill... it is not addressing the intent to simply hinder someone in order to protect yourself. I'm pretty sure most all strong household products also have the warning about it being against the law to use them in a manner not specified.

BUT this is being picky about a point of law and none of us (as far as I know) are criminal defense attorneys. I get the main point of the post (thanks OP) -- that wasp spray is most likely NOT a good deterrent. I might keep mine tho-- in case of van invasion by actual wasps.

On the light side, a comedy writer friend once cracked up after I mentioned wasp spray being cheap enough to "practice with." He was laughing so hard, it took him a minute to be able to say he was picturing a target field with human silhouettes being replaced by cartoon pictures of wasps and bees. He could see me running about, shooting down wasp signs. Everyone in the room got a good laugh -- including me.

 

[LeeRevell]

I tend to take anything that cop instructors tell the public with a grain of salt.  They're not going to say anything that their chief doesn't approve of, and their chief ain't gonna approve of anything that HIS bosses - the mayor, the town council, the police commissioner - disapprove of.  So you may not be getting the whole story, or even the right story from them.

Here in New York, there is an obligation to retreat, everywhere but inside your home.  If I CAN retreat (safely) then I MUST retreat.  If I shoot somebody, and they can show that I could have retreated but didn't, the courts will not allow a claim of self-defense.

Wikipedia has an article on stand your ground laws.  Apparently, 22 states now have them.  Which means that 28 states still have "duty to retreat" laws like NY.

In NY, the "castle doctrine" applies ONLY to your home, not your yard, your driveway, or any other property, but in some states you have no duty to retreat if you are anywhere on your own property.

Regards
John

PS:  Probably a good idea for us traveling types to keep a list handy of which states are stand your ground and which aren't

Basically I agree, though "Stand Your Ground" and the "Castle Law" are in fact two different concepts and laws.  We here in Florida have both, which also applies to us inside our vehicles.   But this points out that when we travel, we must be knowledgeable of the laws that apply where we are currently. 
Of course, ANY use of force on an attacker, lethal or otherwise, will be fully investigated.  We must be very sure we are operating within the law, if possible.  But when the perp is attacking, law is the least of one's concerns.

 

[LeeRevell]

It is interesting and corrective to read the info on the non-effectiveness of wasp spray, as I am one of the women who years and years ago heard recommendations for it as a cheap and long-reaching deterrent. It's length of spray being a major factor -- we liked the idea of keeping a predator 20 feet away.

I do have a comment on the quote about the felony aspect. Here is the Oklahoma quote:

Any person who, with intent to kill, administers or causes or procures to be administered to another any poison which is actually taken by such other person but by which death is not caused shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the State Penitentiary not less than ten (10) years.


The BIG thing is the first part of the law -- a person having the "intent to KILL' is the operative part of the whole quote. It says you cannot use such poisons with the intent to kill... it is not addressing the intent to simply hinder someone in order to protect yourself. I'm pretty sure most all strong household products also have the warning about it being against the law to use them in a manner not specified.

BUT this is being picky about a point of law and none of us (as far as I know) are criminal defense attorneys. I get the main point of the post (thanks OP) -- that wasp spray is most likely NOT a good deterrent. I might keep mine tho-- in case of van invasion by actual wasps.

On the light side, a comedy writer friend once cracked up after I mentioned wasp spray being cheap enough to "practice with."  He was laughing so hard, it took him a minute to be able to say he was picturing a target field with human silhouettes being replaced by cartoon pictures of wasps and bees. He could see me running about, shooting down wasp signs. Everyone in the room got a good laugh -- including me.    

Twenty feet is an awefully short distance when the perp wants to hurt you.  A favorite training aid in self defense courses is to give the 'victim' a holstered training pistol, and the 'attacker' a rubber knife.  Almost always the perp will have the knife to the victim's throat before they can bring the gun to bear.  Result - 'dead victim'.
One of the best tactics taught, to both men and women, is to either kick the (male) perp in the family jewels HARD then run, or grab him there and twist, then run.  As a guy, I can guarantee the perp won't be running for awhile.....  

 

[highdesertranger]

back to the wasp spray. but I saw it on the internet so it must be true. hahahaha. highdesertranger

 

[highdesertranger]

it says right on a can of wasp spray it is against federal law to use on anything but what it's intended for, wasps. it says this same thing on all household chemicals. why not use spray paint or oven cleaner. oven cleaner should be the best. or how about carb cleaner or brake clean. or drain cleaner in a squirt gun. or strait lye, easy to make your own really strong lye. or bleach in a squirt gun. or ammonia in a squirt gun. bottom line this is all illegal. some of you are looking for an illegal solution to a bad situation. highdesertranger

 

[mockturtle]

Good point.  In self defense, it's better to just shoot the bastard dead than to see his sorry ass in court, blinded by drain cleaner, gaining the sympathy of the jury. 

 

[B and C]

I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.

 

[sushidog]

Wasp spray is the best defensive tool - against wasps.
Bear Spray is the best defensive tool - against bears.
A 12ga is the best defensive tool - against humans.
Especially one (or two) like this: (warning language)
They may not be very concealable, but definitely more concealable, lighter and cheaper than carrying a SWAT team around with you.
Much less firepower, but lighter, more concealable, easier to obtain, and cheaper (only a $5 AOW NFA tax stamp needed) is this Serbu Super Shorty:

Chip

 

[PersonalSafetyExpert]

As a Personal Safety Expert, I can tell you that using wasp spray as a way to defend yourself against a human threat is a bad idea. Wasp spray may be effective for dealing with wasps, but it's not a proven or an effective tool to use against another person, like if there was an intruder in your home. It will not work on those who cannot feel pain (alcohol, drugs, emotionally disturbed) because it doesn’t produce the inflammatory effects pepper spray does. Home defense pepper sprays deploy 25’, slam the attackers’ eyes shut & produces a loss of breath sensation. Pepper sprays for example will cover an entire doorway requiring less accuracy than wasp spray. These sprays are also tested before they leave the factory, so you know you're going to get a product that works when you need it most. Finally, if you contact a wasp spray manufacturer, they're going to tell you not to use their products as self-defense. I talked with 8, and all 8 told me their products aren't to be used for self-defense. You can contact them yourselves. Use pepper sprays for human as a way to defend yourself, NOT wasp spray!

Here is a video that shows the effectiveness of wasp spray compared to pepper spray - it's clear wasp spray will not stop a goal-oriented attacker:

---

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]As a Personal Safety Expert, I’m really happy to see your post helping to spread the word about the wasp spray myth. I’m in complete agreement – wasp spray should NEVER be used for self-defense against a human attacker. If you contact a wasp spray manufacturer, they’re going to tell you not to use their products as self-defense. I talked with 8, and all 8 told me their products aren’t to be used for self-defense against people.   [/font]

[font=Calibri, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Here’s a video showing the effectiveness of wasp spray compared to pepper spray. It’s clear that wasp spray will NOT stop a goal-oriented attacker: [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Instead of wasp spray, you should use pepper spray. Pepper spray is proven effective and carried by police globally. It forces the subject’s eyes to slam shut, which means it even works on those who can’t feel pain (drugs, alcohol, emotionally disturbed); wasp spray doesn’t have this same benefit. Pepper spray is also legal to carry and use against attackers in all 50 states. [/font]

 

[highdesertranger]

Personal Safety Expert, first off welcome. second I couldn't agree more. lastly is this your 1 and only post or are you going to hang around. highdesertranger