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I've got a Dodge van so I want to say good job and great tutorial, thanks for going to the trouble of sharing all that, even if I never attempt a full swap I feel better knowing how you did it. I appreciate your obstinate can-do spirit so I'd guess the rest of your conversion should be a breeze compared to that. All the best!
 
Holy cow!!!!! I'm afraid I would have given up long ago and crawled into a corner somewhere. KUDOS to you big time!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You have my deepest admiration!

Now I'm holding my breath to see jut how amazing the conversion must be!!
Bob
 
Thanks guys. I'ts been fun at times, frustrating at times and overall a great learning experience. I hope to enjoy the actual build portion as much as I did learning new things through the mechanical portion!
 
Goals and Objectives

Before getting started with the build, I wanted to take a couple of minutes to talk about my goals with this build.  While I do have a few layout ideas in mind, there are a few common layout considerations for me:

- I have 2 younder children (7 and 11 years old).  Therefore, having additional belted seating for them is pretty important.  While I do most of my camping with them in the vintage Class A I restored a few years ago ( https://81apollorestoration.wordpress.com/ ), I would like the option for some fun quick getaways in the van as well.

- An indoor/outdoor kitchen is very high on my priority list.  I would rather cook outside, but cooking inside must be an option in inclimate weather, or times where stealth and privacy are important.  Adding to this, I want  the process of kitchen setup for indoor/outdoor use to be a quick and easy as possible.

- I'm 5'9" or so.  I believe I could get away with either a parallel or perpendicular bed layout.  I want to give consideration to the skylights that are just behind the driver/passenger seats.  Do I want the bed to be beneath these, for amazing views?  Or will it become a hinderance, allowing street lights to disturb my sleep?  I honestly haven't quite decided yet, but regardless - my layout will have to take into account the location of the skylights whether they end up being a good thing or a bad thing.  I think some testing is in order!

- I want something unique!  While I admire pretty much every conversion I've seen, I want something that is very unique and individual.  Of course, this can be accomplished not only with layout, but color schemes, building materials, etc.


- Lastly is weight, and this is extremely high on my list.  In my opinion, many conversions that I see are way overbuilt!  3/4" subfloors and 1/2" thick cabinetry and shelves seem like complete overkill to me.  My goal is to have the dry weight of my conversion equal to or less than the starting weight of my donor conversion van.  I'm not 100% sure this will be possible yet, but I'm going to put a lot of effort into testing different materials and techniques to achieve this goal.  I'll also be keep track of weight removed and added to the van along with a running total.  I believe that a light weight conversion will save a lot of money in the long run.  The fuel effiency gain, and the reduced wear and tear on drivetrain components and associated maintenance costs will likely be the most influential components when it comes to cost savings
 
Sharing a Few Layout Ideas

Over the last 6 months or so, I've done dozens of layout mockups and drawings.  While they all have some merit, I've narrowed down a few that I really like so I wanted to share them here and discuss what I like about them.  I'd also love to hear any feedback on the designs, as I'm sure those with more experience living in small quarters will be able to point out things that I haven't thought of.

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160416_065341_zpsqekq5fcz.jpg[/img]
This is a bed-up-front design with a perpendicular bed layout.
Pros:
-  Access to the driver compartment by climbing over bed (could also be a con)
- Bed is beneath skylights for good nighttime views.  Can open side barn doors for awesome views as well
- The two center row seats are re-used from the van, facing each other.  My early tests show that the stock rear seat belts already work great in this configuration!  Not only is this great for traveling with the kids, in my mock-up tests it is very comfortable for two adults, giving options for sitting up comfortable for some face-to-face time (cards, enjoying a conversation, a meal, etc)
- Rear kitchen is usable from outside or from rear seats very comfortably.
- Provides excellent storage above cab, below bed, as well as a horseshoe of upper cabinets around the rear.

Cons:
- Access to driver compartment is only from outside or climbing over the bed
- Bed beneath skylights could be problematic for sleeping in brightly lit areas (could be remedied with blackout covers)
- When re-using the seats in the back, there is little over 1' of space in between the front of the seats.  While my tests show that it's still very comfortable for two adults (on persons legs stay together and in between the seats, th other person's legs must spread to have their feet on either side), it could still end up feeling a little cramped in the long run. (see mockup test picture below)
- When entering via the side door, you must climb onto the bed to enter.  Again, I've done mockup tests with this, and with a flip-down shelf to aid in shoe removal and storage, it's not bad.  But in the long term I can see this turning into an inconvenience.  Basically any route in and out of the living quarters of the van involves removing shoes so that the bed doesn't get dirty.
- The thought of carrying a portapotty over the bed to get it outside to dump doesn't sound too appealing
[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160415_200312_zpswmkwznzn.jpg[/img]
Mockup of seats facing each other.  While the clearance is close, it's surprisingly cozy and comfortable even with two adults.  Perhaps smaller folding boat seats would be a better option?


[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160512_095129_zpszcjzvfm5.jpg[/img]
This is another front-bed layout that I really like, and am leaning towards for various reasons (sorry for the terrible picture quality)

Pros:
- Good views from skylights (could be a con)
- Access to driver compartment by simply stepping over a corner of the bed
- Better layout when considering a swivel passenger seat
- Indoor/outdoor kitchen utilizes existing door hinge for simplicity
- Interior can be entered into from any door on the van
- With extra seats at the rear, the existing "quick release" seat bases can be used so that the seats can be removed very easily for extra storage when extra seating is not needed.  Perhaps cabinets can be built that utilize the same seat bases to lock into place?
- Easy portapotty removal out the rear doors

Cons:
- Bed beneath skylights could be problematic when sleeping in well lit areas.  Perhaps sleeping with head at opposite end of bed would help?
- Passenger seats all the way in rear may not be very well protected from a rear impact (then again, being belted in sideways isn't the best option either, but better than nothing)
- kitchen partially blocks view out side doors
 
Tearout!!!

I'm still catching up to where I'm at in the build currently, but tearout started about a month and a half ago.  I saved anything salvagable during the tearout to have a wide selection of items for re-use (lights, cabinet doors, hinges and handles, cup holders, etc.)

[img=640x853]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...-4C09-980A-489F71B45141_zpsauxvt9mx.jpg[/img]
When we tore out the celing, we were surprised by a few things.  1)  There is a ton of wasted space!  See that drop down in the rear?  It's a foot deep, the width of the van and as high as the entire high top.  This was completely unused space! 2)  There were metal supports running perpendicular to the length of the van, but they sat anywhere from an inch to two inches below the top of the high top! (this is something we fix later) 3) The insulation was soaked!  Upon further investigation, there were two cracks about 6" long in the high top.  There is wood inlaid in the fiberglass at various locations, and it seems the previous owner had drilled a hole through the roof in one of these areas where wood was sandwiched in the fiberglass.  There was a dab of caulking I found on the roof covering the hole, but it was obviously not a good caulking job.  It appears that water leaked in, got the wood wet causing it to swell and crack thee fiberglass, letting water in.  Oh well, I was going to do a full tearout anyways, so nothing lost except some time to repair the hightop.



[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160311_151027_zpskvpbrtlm.jpg[/img]
[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160311_153924_zps3mbapzey.jpg[/img]

[img=640x853]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...-4BB9-9B6D-941C1C068234_zpstrqinfvt.jpg[/img]
Wearing a disppooisable suit was very helpful when ripping up and vacuuming all the fiberglass fuzz off of everything!

[img=640x853]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...-464B-A432-C0D2754FD9EF_zpsyosse6wr.jpg[/img]
It's not obvious at first, but if you look at the roof you'll see the two cracks on either side of one of the pieces of wood that are inlaid in the fiberglass

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160430_192214_zpsykt5ukmi.jpg[/img]
When tearing out the carpet, I put a lot of effort into not damaging the dense foam padding underneath.  My plan is to leave it in place both for a little bit of insulation, and as a sound deadener.

[img=640x863]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160505_153212_zpsxk1zuvvn.jpg[/img]
There were many areas where there was no matting on the floor after removing seat bases and other mounting hardware.

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160506_135528_zpscguvzrdb.jpg[/img]
Those areas were patched in with floor mats ( the kind with interlocking puzzle-piece looking boarders).  It ended up being the exact same thickness and the density and rigidity feels about the same.  If you look above, you see that the ones that we already had laying around were colored on one side, and dark gray on the other - so we put them colored-face down.

[img=640x853]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...ived_10201726574162311_zps41bstidn.jpeg[/img]
This gave us a perfect 1/2" layer of sound-deadening, slightly-insulative foam from front to back

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160508_055724_zpsjtxsocrw.jpg[/img]
We didn't want to do any tear-out up front, since the interior is in great shape and looks great already.  I did however cut the front TV surround out that used to surround the old tube TV.  It stuck into the living space a good foot, and I was always hitting my head on the thing.  I cut it off nice and flush with the rear of the headliner so that I simple piece of trim will dress it up in the future.



In all, the tearout wasn't bad.  It was terribly messy at some stages, and getting the fuzzy fiberglass off the the ceiling was terrible, as it was glued up there.  Carpet removal took way longer than expected due to some super crazy glue used on metal areas like the fenders (luckily it seemed like a light spray glue was used to adhere the carpet to the padding, so that came up fairly easy without damaging the padding).  Gutting the van also allowed us to find a major underlying problem with the cracks in the high top.  We would have found them eventually, but finding them this early allowed things to be repaired correctly and tested for leaks before even starting the build
 
A few things came to my mind when I looked at your possible layouts.

The 2 rear seats - maybe have them removable for when you're not taking the kids along? Also, I found that sitting sideways with no reasonable view out the front window leaves me prone to motion sickness. Especially for kids, they might be, well whiny kids sooner because they have no good view of the scenery going down the road.

Bed - to give you additional living space when not in sleeping configuration, you might want to consider a bed that extends rather than a permanent full size bed.

Maybe, since you need additional legal and safe seating, consider putting in one of the RV beds that comes with seatbelt installation available. I don't normally recommend the commercially made sofa/beds but since you need additional seating AND bed space it might be something to investigate.

The sideways behind the driving compartment bed - have you double checked to make sure that you can get a full 72" across (I only have 68"). I agree with your cons that getting around the vehicle, in and out, taking shoes off, emptying the portapottie are all going to be problematic with the bed in that location. I've also never seen skylights that didn't leak, sooner or later. I always recommend NOT putting the bed under a roof vent, skylight or sunroof for that reason. Also, with the bed being right beside the cargo doors, if the weather is not bright and sunny, you're going to run in to water entry on to the foot of the bed the minute a door is opened. I know we all like to just camp in good weather but Mother Nature thinks it's fun to rain/sleet/snow etc when we're out there... :rolleyes:

Maybe watch some videos or go in to the build section here and take a look at other layouts for ideas that will work for you.
 
Almost There said:
A few things came to my mind when I looked at your possible layouts.

The 2 rear seats - maybe have them removable for when you're not taking the kids along? Also, I found that sitting sideways with no reasonable view out the front window leaves me prone to motion sickness. Especially for kids, they might be, well whiny kids sooner because they have no good view of the scenery going down the road.

Bed - to give you additional living space when not in sleeping configuration, you might want to consider a bed that extends rather than a permanent full size bed.

Maybe, since you need additional legal and safe seating, consider putting in one of the RV beds that comes with seatbelt installation available. I don't normally recommend the commercially made sofa/beds but since you need additional seating AND bed space it might be something to investigate.

The sideways behind the driving compartment bed - have you double checked to make sure that you can get a full 72" across (I only have 68"). I agree with your cons that getting around the vehicle, in and out, taking shoes off, emptying the portapottie are all going to be problematic with the bed in that location. I've also never seen skylights that didn't leak, sooner or later. I always recommend NOT putting the bed under a roof vent, skylight or sunroof for that reason. Also, with the bed being right beside the cargo doors, if the weather is not bright and sunny, you're going to run in to water entry on to the foot of the bed the minute a door is opened. I know we all like to just camp in good weather but Mother Nature thinks it's fun to rain/sleet/snow etc when we're out there... :rolleyes:

Maybe watch some videos or go in to the build section here and take a look at other layouts for ideas that will work for you.

All good suggestions, thanks.  Ill definitely give everything some good consideration.  I definitely agree that the sideways/front layout is probably out due to a lot of the reasons you mention.

Regarding the rear seats, I guess there is nothing holding me from facing them forwards, or better yet, putting the electric sofabed back in.  this would allow for passenger seating for 3 more, and double as an extra bed when installed.  In fact, I'm going to go take some measurements shortly to see if it's feasible, but I'm thinking that may be a great solution - extra seating, extra bed, removable when not needed, etc.  Regarding the permanent bed, I'm pretty stuck on it.  I want a comfortable bed that isn't piecedc together out of cushions and I really need the storage space underneath due to the othersacrifices being made with space
 
Post-Tearout Weight Summary

I have my first wieght summary ready.  If you remember, one of my goals is to have the dry weight of my conversion  at or below my starting weight.    From here on I will keep a running tally of weight added to or subtracted from the van.

To kick this off, I'll point out that there are only two items that I'm not sure of the exact weight on: The carpet that I ripped out, and the hightop headliner, which was all 1/4" plywood/foam/fabric along with some hardwood bracing - but I did do my best at an accurate guess for these two items, which were burned in a bonfire.

[img=640x419]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/... from 2016-05-12 135420_zpsrzxu1ioe.jpg[/img]


So starting from the completed tearout, I have removed 514 lbs.  Tihs is very close to what I was hoping to see, as it gives me lots of wiggle room to stay withing my weight goals during the build.

Most things on the list weren't too surprising, though I'm really astonished that there was 139 lbs of woodwork in the van!  All of the above numbers (minus carpet and headliner) were actually weighed and are factual!).

The next step is going to be the floor install, where my original hope was to save a huge amount of weight by going light with things.  I'll try to get this part up in the next day or so!
 
you can get as individual or as fancy as you want with your layout, but the westfallia layout with the bed that folds down and has seat belts with a swivel passenger seat is tried and true. I have built a few vans with different layouts but a few years back I bought a Dodge Caravan with a poptop with the westfallia layout and I must admit that that layout works extremely well, especially if you are carrying extra people. I can have five people strapped in, sleep 4 with the drivers seat that also swivels 4 people can sit and eat at a table or play board games and it is a minivan.!! Someone has done something right. I agree with you about light weight and that most are overbuilt, nothing structural in a van. In two of my vans I have used 3/4x3/4 pine framing with luan glued and brad nailed for all cabinetry and furniture. However I have since learned that Luan is very bad for offgassing formaldehyde so I would rethink that part if I was doing it over again. Apparently you can get ply or paneling that is less toxic.
 
If you go with the layout where the two seat in the rear face each other, can you install them on swivels so they can face forward while driving and at each other while camping/eating etc? I would think as far as crashes go, it's safest to be facing forward anyways while driving.

Great job on the mechanicals by the way, just read through the entire thread. Perseverance paid off
 
I. think you might have underestimated the weight of the carpet.
When I tore out the carpet in mine , I put it all in a garbage bag and it weighed a LOT40-50 lbs min......OK maybe a little less I took out all the padding too but it wasn't rubber like yours is.

Great set of pics posted !! Glad you found the leaks , that was the best time to fix 'em !

I've also had good luck making shelves ,etc. from 1/4" ply and 1x1...ex: for a shelf I would put 1 piece of wood across each end and 1 down the middle lengthwise to stiffen it (all underneath of course)
 
rvpopeye said:
I. think you might have underestimated the weight of the carpet.
When I tore out the carpet in mine  , I put it all in a garbage bag and it weighed a LOT40-50 lbs min......OK maybe a little less I took out all the padding too but it wasn't rubber like yours is.

Great set of pics posted  !! Glad you found the leaks , that was the best time to fix 'em !

I've also had good luck making shelves ,etc. from 1/4" ply and 1x1...ex: for a shelf I would put 1 piece of wood across each end and 1 down the middle lengthwise to stiffen it (all underneath of course)

You're probably right with the carpet weight, I wish I had paid more attention when I removed it.  Maybe I'll check around online for weight of carpet per square foot and try to cross check myself a bit!
 
Floor (Part 1)

The floor went in over this last week. 

While removing the carpet,  we noticed how nice and firm the rubber/foam underlayment was under the carpet. We decided that aside from some good sound deadening properties,  that it would also offer at least a little bit of insulation.  We decided to do a test to see how laminate flooring would hold up placed directly on the padding. 


[img=640x480]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...ived_10201726579242438_zpsemtl5kiy.jpeg[/img]
You can see in the picture above that we put a small section of laminate floor in right  on the foam so we could test how sturdy it felt walking on it.   While it did feel pretty solid,  there was a small amount of deflection.   I worried that repeated flexing of the laminate joints may give us problems later,  so we decided that a thin layer of 1/4" Luan would probably stiffen things up enough with out adding too much weight or unnecessary height to the floor. 


[img=640x640]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160509_150644_zpswvxl9c9m.jpg[/img]

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160509_153254_zpsq1empcbs.jpg[/img]

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_141510_zpsqkmzzxbu.jpg[/img]
Nothing fancy here -  the Luan was cut and installed very quickly.   The seams were simply duct taped to hold everything in place. 

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_143702_zpsb1afecua.jpg[/img]
After the Luan was installed,  a layer of thin underlayment for the laminate was put down. It's main purpose here is to just keep the laminate from rattling on the Luan.   It's a very thin foam sheet. 

[img=640x863]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_150138_zpslcrwp2cu.jpg[/img]
[img=640x863]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_152027_zpscbsyrehy.jpg[/img]

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_165619_zpsi3qkhxq8.jpg[/img]
This bamboo laminate installed quickly and easily, and looks beautiful in the van!

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_172634_zps1dqybup8.jpg[/img]

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_172725_zpsxe7uvust.jpg[/img]
Everything fit nice and square.  A little room was left around the edges to allow room for expansion, but the installation still looks nice and tight even without any trim pieces
 
Floor (Part 2)


[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_202634_zpszkuow0bm.jpg[/img]

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_202614_zpsoyqsi6ch.jpg[/img]
Keeping the flooring nice and thin, the laminate lines up perfectly with the carpet in the cab of the van.  I will put some kind of transition trim piece in, but even without a trim piece, it mates up to the carpet so well that we could almost get away without using one at all.

[img=640x863]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_160755_zps6t7kk4t5.jpg[/img]
The finished floor is about 1 1/8" thick total.  You can see the layers well here - The top layer is the Laminate, beneath that is the very thin layer of foam, then the layer of Luan, and finally the denser rubberized floor foam (notice in the picture that it's two colors, black on top and yellow at the bottom.  This is because they were left over colored mats that we put in upside down to fill areas where there was no original carpet underlayment left)

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_161102_zpsrkmrzedm.jpg[/img]
Out of curiosity I tried to re-install the plastic step piece from the side door entrance.  If you look, you can see that because of the added floor height, the lip on the trim piece prevented it from sitting all the way down where it should, preventing the door from being able to close. 

[img=640x474]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160510_202655_zpskgp2uvlg.jpg[/img]
It only took a couple of minutes to cut the top lip off of the plastic step trim piece with a jigsaw, letting it sit all the way down and be permanently mounted again.  Notice now that that the edge of the floor is still exposed, so at some point we will have to trim that out with something.

I am extremely happy with how the floor came out.  It feels extremely solid to walk on, even though no heavy plywood was used.  Also, this is essentially a floating floor, installed on a floating Luan subfloor, installed on top of non-rigid foam.  It is not bolted down or screwed in anywhere. One would think this would all add up to a shifty and unstable floor, but this is not the case at all.  I can literally push the van in my garage from the floor and the floor does not budge.  Additionally, once furniture and cabinetry is installed, it will lock the floor in even better.

I'm not home at the moment, so I don't have my exact numbers with me - but even with this much attention going into keeping things light the floor came out a bit heavier than I would have guessed (though not terribly) - somewhere around 120 lbs. or so.  When I get home tonight I'll put up my running weight report with exact numbers.  The laminate I used was the culprit, making up about 90 lbs. of that weight.  Obviously the best way to keep a light floor is to just leave the carpet, but I would much prefer the added weight for the extra durability and ease of cleaning.
 
Wow! Great job and super craftsmanship!

And, the pics are "worth a thousand words!"

Thanks.
 
[img=640x514]http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/...avi/IMG_20160514_053638_zpsq1d6jl6l.jpg[/img]

Here is the current weight summary after adding the floor.   The completed floor came in at 118 lbs.   Also,  as pointed out by others,  my original estimate for the carpet weight was probably light.   After some research,  most quotes I've found for weight of carpet with pad were 2 lbs.  Per square foot.   Since I removed 50 sqft of carpet,  50 lbs probably a reasonable estimate.
 
speedhighway46 said:
Wow! Great job and super craftsmanship!

And, the pics are "worth a thousand words!"

Thanks.

Thank you.   Hopefully things continue to go relatively smooth for me.   I'm really hoping to have it usable in the next month!
 
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