The Rat Race

[akrvbob]

(Rather than hijack a thread on credit cards, I split this off as a thread of it's own)

Here's the problem with the rat race...

Even if you win, you're still a rat!!!

This is a nice thread to help people win the rat race, but my idea, and the idea behind this website, is... 

EFF the Rat Race!!!!

But we each have to do whatever our courage level and best thinking says is right for us.
Bob

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Here's the problem with the rat race...

Even if you win, you're still a rat!!!

This is a nice thread to help people win the rat race, but my idea, and the idea behind this website, is... 

EFF the Rat Race!!!!

But we each have to do whatever our courage level and best thinking says is right for us.
Bob

You know, Bob, at the risk of offending you, if it weren't for all the people taking part in the rat race, who would build our vans?  Who would drill for, refine, and transport oil to us?  Who would raise food and deliver it to the Walmarts for us to buy?

We'd be reduced to wandering around on foot as a hunter-gatherers.

I, for one, am delighted that I DON'T have to live like that!

Your current, nirvana-like life is only possible because the majority of people DO choose to take part in the rat race. 

Regards
John

 

[akrvbob]

You know, Bob, at the risk of offending you, if it weren't for all the people taking part in the rat race, who would build our vans?  Who would drill for, refine, and transport oil to us?  Who would raise food and deliver it to the Walmarts for us to buy?

Your current, nirvana-like life is only possible because the majority of people DO choose to take part in the rat race. 

I'm offended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Not!!

I've been told that many times and I understand you're point of view. However, I think there is another way to look at the situation.

According to 97% of the worlds climate scientists and every single science institution in the world, if we continue with the rat race business as usual and keep using credit cards to buy more and more crap and new cars and on-and-on we are heading toward a unprecedented catastrophe. 

The time for business as usual is over and now is the time for radical change. The rat race is so terribly destructive that I will not support it and will work against it in every way I can.

I'm well aware that many, if not most of you disagree with everything I've said here. And those that do agree probably are so overwhelmed by it won't do anything about it.

I only bring it up to answer you and say there is a very definite reason why I do everything I do, and there is a very strong reason why I want you all to join me and abandon the rat race. First and foremost because you will probably be much happier, but a close second....

We need to destroy the rat race, before it ruins our ecosystem and us with it. 
Bob

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Lets say I don't necessarily disagree with you.  It's easy to say "end the rat race!"

Replace it with what?

Something that will keep civilization going, of course.  Something that will support the planet's population.  Something that won't turn into an authoritative nightmare, that still respects individual freedom.

I'll be interested to see how this thread develops.  And btw, I'm guessing it will be getting VERY political.  Not in the narrow Dems vs Repubs, sense, in the broader political philosophy sense.

Regards
John

 

[AltTransBikes]

You know, Bob, at the risk of offending you, if it weren't for all the people taking part in the rat race, who would build our vans?  Who would drill for, refine, and transport oil to us?  Who would raise food and deliver it to the Walmarts for us to buy?

We'd be reduced to wandering around on foot as a hunter-gatherers.

I, for one, am delighted that I DON'T have to live like that!

Your current, nirvana-like life is only possible because the majority of people DO choose to take part in the rat race. 

Regards
John

Nice reality check.

 

[WriterMs]

What I see so far is that different folks may have differing definitions of "the rat race."

Bob's comments seem to indicate that he is "mostly" referring to the ultra consumerism of the US and many/most other countries. The desire for more and more. The destruction of the natural environment in order to serve the "need" for more and better "stuff."

To others (and probably to Bob, too, -- and I'm sure he'll respond and clarify), the rat race may mean working at a job that is not satisfying and/or living like you are "supposed" to live.

I do believe that there are many people out there who either like their jobs (building fine new vans, for example) or at least find their work tolerable in order to feed, cloth and house their family. They feel productive and proud to provide a good education for their kids and such. They do not consider themselves a part of the rat race.

But there are likely just as many who DO feel they are on a never-ending treadmill of unhappiness and emptyness --- these are the ones who can become intrigued and drawn to an alternative lifestyle like vandwelling.

And look at the hugely growing tiny house movement... perhaps a cross between the two worlds of mobile freedom and rat race? Tamping down the consumerism and destructive footprint of that lifestyle.

In another generation, the effects of climate change will be undeniable even to the Koch Brothers and their ilk. And then the great inventors and scientists and everyday people may turn their attention to finding a better path... out of necessity. Perhaps it will be a grassroots effort like having Victory gardens in every yard like during the War?

Anyway... my rambling thoughts on the possibilities. But also a desire to understand what each contributor "means" when the term rat race is used.

 

[ramblingvanman]

In another generation, the effects of climate change will be undeniable even to the Koch Brothers and their ilk.

Is the climate changing? Sure. I don't know how old you are, but I remember reading about the coming ice age in Time Magazine back in the 70s. Now it is "global warming". Ok, we must be doing some serious polluting to be raising the temperature on Mars and Pluto.   Have you guys not heard of "climate gate" where all those "environmental scientists" were caught with their pants down and their emails admitting that they made much of the so called science up? If the government pays "scientists" to find "global warming" they are going to find it or risk losing their cushy jobs and have to go do real work. Have you guys heard of agenda 21, now renamed plan 2030 or something like that? This whole thing is all about money and power. It is about fencing off large parts of the world and forcing humans to live lives confined in very small areas. For the ultimate outcome of agenda 21 watch those Mocking Jay movies. That is the world the elite see for the rest of us.

Mars Temperature Rising

Climate Gate

Pluto Too

Maybe the Sun is the cause

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

What I see so far is that different folks may have differing definitions of "the rat race."

Anyway... my rambling thoughts on the possibilities. But also a desire to understand what each contributor "means" when the term rat race is used.

The first step in any debate - Define Your Terms.  Of course, one of the basics in Debate Prep 101 is that whoever gets to define the terms is halfway to winning the debate . . .

Anyway, to me, "the rat race" simply means getting up and going to work every day, day after day.  There is a connotation that you don't really like your job, but you're stuck with it because you have a family to support, and you can't find another job that would pay so well.  The guys working the Detroit assembly lines, tightening the same bolts on car after car are probably a perfect example.

People who love their work, who would never even consider trying to find another job, don't think of themselves as being part of "the rat race".

I don't equate it with conspicuous and unnecessary consumption.  That's "keeping up with the Joneses".  Something I've never worried about.

The only "conspicuous and unnecessary consumption" I've ever been guilty of is buying books.  At least, that's the way my family always saw it . . .

Regards
John

 

[Queen]

I would equate the rat race to debt. Being held hostage by the things you buy in order to live, however minimally or extravagantly you choose.

I'm one of those who've chosen to compromise with the "rat race", I still live in a sticks and bricks place, drive a newer SUV, and work. The compromise is my refusal to go into debt for any of the trappings of everyday life; to do this I keep my "trappings" very minimal. I saw debt as a weight around my neck so (with my beloved SO on board) we downsized, then downsized again, we got rid of what many people see as luxuries so we could get rid of debt and be as free as possible.

 

[SoulRaven]

I take great offence to Mr. Wells attack on the working man.

In order for me to be able to retire at 56 years old with social security benefits, HUD housing voucher, free medical insurance including dental, vision and free prescriptions, ½ bus rides, free transportation to medical appointments, food stamps, three utility allowances, free YMCA membership, reduced truck registration from $60 to $10 per year, five local food pantry distributions, and free hot lunch at the senior center etc etc etc we must encourage all the men and women of working age to keep working as long as possible.

If you were born after 1960 full retirement age for SSA is 67 years old and I encourage all that can work to work to age 80 or as long as possible to receive a greater monthly SSA benefit, in order to keep paying federal income, FICA, state and local income taxes, property taxes, flood and fire insurance on your property plus buy a bunch of new stuff to pay as much sales taxes as possible, and don’t forget that long commute to work you will need to buy gasoline and the per gallon taxes you pay help to fix the roads and bridges so I can receive a smooth ride on my way to Florida for the winter.

 

[CTP]

I was in the rat race, and the rats won!

 

[Sabatical]

It's comforting, for my wife and I anyway, to see local small scale folks doing very well at something they love. Two examples in my area, and I'm sure there are many more, are CSA's and micro-breweries. Love my veggies and beer! They keep me happy while I'm waiting for my pension [WINKING FACE]
While we are waiting for that day though, we've paired down our possesion to nearly nil and are working on the zero debt dream. We'll be content to travel with many of you here for a short time each year and live frugally and purposefully until retirement comes.

 

[WriterMs]

Reading a car-dweller's blog (The Good Luck Duck), I happened to notice a link in her long list of resources that was for www.SimplicityInstitute.org

On their homepage was some wording that seemed very appropriate to this discussion. Bob, this contains some quotes that might go into your collection if you do not already have them:

The global economy is undermining the ecological foundations of life, producing perverse inequalities of wealth, and spreading a cultural malaise as ever-more people discover that consumerism cannot satisfy the human craving for meaning. While industrial civilisation continues this inevitable descent, humankind is being challenged to reimagine the good life, tell new stories of prosperity, and get to work envisioning and building a new world within the shell of the old.

“To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” – Buckminster Fuller

“What people must see is that ecologically sane, socially responsible living is good living; that simplicity makes for an existence that is free.” – Theodore Roszak

 

[akrvbob]

Very good stuff WriterMS!! Thank you.
Bob

 

[mockturtle]

Almost everyone I know, myself included, has pared down [or is in the process of paring down] their lifestyle to a minimum of consumer goods. Most of us realize that we don't need all that stuff and that a simpler life is a happier one, as well as a more ecologically responsible one. What Optimistic Paranoid has said is equally true: We are still dependent on people with full time jobs who provide the essential goods and services that we do need. Like most things in life, it's all about balance.

 

[Numpty]

Quote from Tim Jackson, social and environmental economist. The comments are my own take.

We are persuaded to, (Advertising)

Spend money we don't have, (Credit)

On things we don't need, (Stuff)

To make an impression that wont last, (Ego)

On people we don't know, (Them)

or even care about, (Contempt)

and who don't care about us.

Video -- As the world faces recession, climate change, inequity and more, Tim Jackson delivers a piercing challenge to established economic principles, explaining how we might stop feeding the crises and start investing in our future.

 

[Free Range Chicken]

I'm offended!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Not!!

I've been told that many times and I understand you're point of view. However, I think there is another way to look at the situation.

According to 97% of the worlds climate scientists and every single science institution in the world, if we continue with the rat race business as usual and keep using credit cards to buy more and more crap and new cars and on-and-on we are heading toward a unprecedented catastrophe. 

The time for business as usual is over and now is the time for radical change. The rat race is so terribly destructive that I will not support it and will work against it in every way I can.

I'm well aware that many, if not most of you disagree with everything I've said here. And those that do agree probably are so overwhelmed by it won't do anything about it.

I only bring it up to answer you and say there is a very definite reason why I do everything I do, and there is a very strong reason why I want you all to join me and abandon the rat race. First and foremost because you will probably be much happier, but a close second....

We need to destroy the rat race, before it ruins our ecosystem and us with it. 
Bob

Bob, I agree with a lot of what you say here but specially on the last line :

"We need to destroy the rat race, before it ruins our ecosystem and us with it. "
Bob


As you said, the ecosystem is really  important to us and we must realize soon about all the harm that we are doing to it. I think  it's possible to make a meaningful change while we still are in the rat race, and that would make a huge difference to our mother earth. I'm talking about practices  that a lot of us already have such as being minimalist, reduce our consumption on goods, reducing the plastic that we use ( the day that we will die, all the plastic that has been ever created will still be polluting our earth, it won't decompose by then ) , recycling the most and all those, perhaps using more solar power, drive less and walk / use bycicle more, etc.

And perhaps this may need another thread or there may already be one, where we share our green living ideas.

 

[Reno]

I take great offence to Mr. Wells attack on the working man.

In order for me to be able to retire at 56 years old with social security benefits, HUD housing voucher, free medical insurance including dental, vision and free prescriptions, ½ bus rides, free transportation to medical appointments, food stamps, three utility allowances, free YMCA membership, reduced truck registration from $60 to $10 per year, five local food pantry distributions, and free hot lunch at the senior center etc etc etc we must encourage all the men and women of working age to keep working as long as possible.

If you were born after 1960 full retirement age for SSA is 67 years old and I encourage all that can work to work to age 80 or as long as possible to receive a greater monthly SSA benefit, in order to keep paying federal income, FICA, state and local income taxes, property taxes, flood and fire insurance on your property plus buy a bunch of new stuff to pay as much sales taxes as possible, and don’t forget that long commute to work you will need to buy gasoline and the per gallon taxes you pay help to fix the roads and bridges so I can receive a smooth ride on my way to Florida for the winter.

FUNNY!

 

[Mobilesport]

Bob, I agree with a lot of what you say here but specially on the last line :

"We need to destroy the rat race, before it ruins our ecosystem and us with it. "
Bob


As you said, the ecosystem is really  important to us and we must realize soon about all the harm that we are doing to it. I think  it's possible to make a meaningful change while we still are in the rat race, and that would make a huge difference to our mother earth. I'm talking about practices  that a lot of us already have such as being minimalist, reduce our consumption on goods, reducing the plastic that we use ( the day that we will die, all the plastic that has been ever created will still be polluting our earth, it won't decompose by then ) , recycling the most and all those, perhaps using more solar power, drive less and walk / use bycicle more, etc.

And perhaps this may need another thread or there may already be one, where we share our green living ideas.

Couldn't you be more of a minimalist by living on a piece of land instead of a van or car?

Option 1
Buy land 
Make a house out of 3 ft thick spray foam and call it a day.
You wouldn't need air conditioning or heating
You wouldn't need a car or gas or oil , trannee fluid , steering fluid , antifreeze 

Option 2 van/ cardwelling
Buy van 
Insulate it 2 " thick
Buy buddy heaters & propane
Buy auxiliary battery's
Buy all the fluids for the van.
Constant parts and maintainance
Unessary driving to dump trash/pee.
Unessary driving to parking spot were you wont get hassled.

 

[gcal]

Couldn't you be more of a minimalist by living on a piece of land instead of a van or car?

Option 1
Buy land 
Make a house out of 3 ft thick spray foam and call it a day.
You wouldn't need air conditioning or heating
You wouldn't need a car or gas or oil , trannee fluid , steering fluid , antifreeze 

Option 2 van/ cardwelling
Buy van 
Insulate it 2 " thick
Buy buddy heaters & propane
Buy auxiliary battery's
Buy all the fluids for the van.
Constant parts and maintainance
Unessary driving to dump trash/pee.
Unessary driving to parking spot were you wont get hassled.

I would love to get back into the rat race. Or, maybe, into a rat mosey. I miss my job and the people I worked with. I would be happy not to work as long as or hard as I did, but I am not ready to rust on my laurels, yet.

I don't need all the stuff and the space I had. The foam house and Mr Buddy, or keeping the rv sound fine. I just miss productive work.