The perfect cargo trailer

[izifaddag]

^
 All held up by COVID.

Snap !!

 

[crofter]

....been refitting my van to be self-contained...

Tell, Tell. How is the refit going? 
-crofter

 

[user 423]

Pretty good but lots of loose ends.  I still need to wire up my new second battery and portable solar panel but no big rush since the main system is operational.  Some wiring as been added for 12V fans and LED's. Built a new platform for my bed. Need to finish my little hand water pump and sink and also the new shower stall at the rear of the van plus add a drain. I've bought extra water jugs so I'll have about 25 galls. total. Just bought an 11 lb. LP tank to feed my Ryobi 900W generator. Stimulus stuff. Yay.

I'm behind on some of the maintenance items,too so that has kept me busy lately. Rearend lube, checking brakes, filter changes,new radiator hoses,etc. It's getting hot and I can only work early AM or late PM, so it's going slower than I'd like. I'm hoping to leave next week to campgrounds at the Chiricahua NM (8500' elev.) and north of Morenci (6600').

 

[Malamute]

Does anyone happen to know what the weight differences are between a single axle 6x12 or 6x14 vs a double axle of the same size?

Im hoping I can keep my future rig towable with a 4runner, but I have some specific things I plan to do with it. Perhaps having a trailer made to order may be workable, with heavier frame and single heavy duty axle with brakes. The plan is a rear ramp door and hauling an H-D motorcycle (620 lbs) and sidecar (200 lbs) in the very back, with lowering bed over them, and kitchen and bath areas forward of that. The stress on a lighter frame with the bike in the back may be more than desired, as well as I want the ability to get into some moderately rough dirt roads/rocky roads to camp. I used to ride my bike (1947 H-D) to the end of Dry Creek Road and up Schnebly hill road in the Sedona area and didnt think it the least bit difficult, and want to be able to do the same with a cargo trailer camper with the bike inside.

So, for me, Im not positive yet, but 6x12 or 6x14 with heavy enough build to go places I like and haul things I wish to have with me. Still in the learning curve on the details, I may be able to buy the trailer later this summer or fall to begin the build adventure.

This site was typical of places I like to go.



You could drive an ordinary car up either of them if careful (you see cars up there all the time) and you know how to drive rocky roads. Shouldnt be a real problem for a decently setup trailer to get into.

 

[tx2sturgis]

A Harley Davidson with sidecar will NOT fit inside a 6 foot wide cargo trailer. I am not sure it even will fit inside a 7 foot wide. 

My crystal ball says you will likely go measure your bike, from left handlebar tip to sidecar fender edge and think, no he's wrong, it will fit.

No it wont.

The opening at the rear of the trailer is NOT as wide as the trailer, and you have to have room inside to maneuver around the bike and fasten the straps to the floor mounted D-rings. Plus the cables that lower the ramp door will interfere with the bike as you roll it up the ramp because they are even narrower than the door opening, unless you spend extra to get a cable-less door lift.

You will most likely need an 8 foot wide trailer which are always equipped with tandem axles, and then you will need some WIDE towing mirrors...and your Toyota will be way past it's comfort level in towing this size and weight of trailer loaded up with your bike and all the gear.

Been there, done that.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I should have made it clear I was referring to ramp-door cargo trailers, normally used for hauling motorcycles. Those have a heavy frame at the rear of the trailer, up the sides, and over the top, to support the ramp door, its hinges, overhead torsion spring, cable pulleys, and weight of the motorcycle as it rolls up the ramp. This heavy frame causes the rear opening to be narrower by about half a foot or more.

A 6 foot wide trailer with rear swing-opening barn doors should have a lot wider opening.

 

[B and C]

That sounds like a really tight fit for a motorcycle bouncing around in a tight space.

 

[Malamute]

Ill have to see where I end up as to overall width when I get it done. I just posted in another thread about it,  https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=40201&pid=496040#pid496040

 I dont think Ill need a 7 ft wide, but we shall see. I dont think Im going to end up much wider if any than the Urals, which show 63.6" wide.

 A friend had an Elk Mountain conversion, it was a very nice rig, and largely the inspiration for doing mine. I never measured his as I wasnt planning to haul a motorcycle with sidecar when i last saw him and his rig.

 Whats actual clear opening on a 6 wide rear ramp trailer with cable door?

EDIT: Looks like my friends had the cable-less door. His trailer was in much of their video. He doesnt still have it unfortunately, or I could ask what his door width was. I only wish Id payed more attention to details when they came up to visit, but that was before i got interested in bikes again.

His was the raising bed, rifle over the bed, red kitchen faucet, shower, rear open ramp door and a number of other shots.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I'll go out and measure my trailer door width in the morning...I can tell you that the Ural with sidecar just barely could squeeze in, and that was scraping the handlebar on the left and the fender and hubcap on the right, scratching the trailer AND the bike. 

And this was after wiggling the bars precariously around the cables, while applying throttle, up the ramp, steering carefully, and with asymmetric thrust on a slick ramp door, it wasn't fun. Not at all. I ended up engaging the 2WD and that made it easier, but an HD wont have 2WD.

Backing out is not gonna be easy with an HD, unless you have the reverse kit. All Ural sidecar motorcycles have reverse, but not all Harleys with a sidecar have reverse. Some are electic on the sidecar wheel, and some are gear driven with an optional/aftermarket reverse gear in the tranny, it just depends on what you have.

At any rate, I knew you would be skeptical. 

What year is this bike and what style of handlebars does it have?

 

[Malamute]

Its an 84 Low Rider with drag bars. I think the bars Im putting on it next are 31.5" wide. I believe they are stock low rider bars from the late 70s/early 80s (pre wiring dimple) that I had 3/4" added to on each side to help with the sidecar steering. I posted a couple pics in the thread I linked.

Thanks for measuring, It will be interesting to see how this works out. Im less skeptical than curious or interested to find out.

No reverse. Some H-D factory sidecar bikes had it, and I know there are aftermarket kits, but Im unfamiliar with them. The bike will eventually have an ATV winch also. I now have a receiver hitch front and rear on the sidecar frame that the winch can go in if I get the mounting plate or have one made to fit mine.

Any idea how much more a cable-less door is?

 

[tx2sturgis]

Here are the measurements I came up with on my 6 foot wide Carry-On trailer:

72.5 inches outside width 

61 inches rear opening width

58 inches between the cables

69 inches total width inside

Approx 139 inches front to back along the load floor

I don't know if they even make a cable-less door for a 6 wide....I know they come on a few of the smaller toy hauler trailers and lots of the larger ones. You would just have to call and find out.

BTW, when the sidecar rig is loaded in this 6x12 trailer, it has to be positioned forward, for proper weight over the trailer axle. This only leaves a small amount of room in front of the bike and very little room behind it. You can arrange items like spare tires, gas cans, helmets, etc, but there is no room for things like beds, large coolers, or furniture of any kind.

 

[highdesertranger]

even with barn doors the door opening is smaller. my trailer is 8ft wide on the inside but the door opening is only 7'5". highdesertranger

 

[tx2sturgis]

See, my assumption was that Malamute had a full dresser (called 'FL' in Harley lingo) and those are often set up with a 'hack' (short for sidehack).

But '84 model Low Riders are not common as a sidecar tug.

Even so, with it's smaller physical dimensions, I do not believe it will fit comfortably. It may not fit at all.

The news from me may sound negative, but if Malamute carefully measures everything, and finds out that it wont work with a 6 foot wide trailer, but it will work with a 7 foot wide, then I have helped save him some aggravation.

 

[highdesertranger]

x2 Malamute. don't get discouraged we are just trying to help you make the right decision and to look at all the different possibilities. highdesertranger

 

[Malamute]

Im not discouraged, im looking for solid information, this helps. I need to see if any 6 wide trailers have cable-less doors and enough room to get the rig in. If not, fall back and see what works. I may end up with a Tahoe if I cant find a trailer that works with the bike and the 4runner. Not willing to give up the bike part since Ill be seasonally nomading through winter and want to go dirt road exploring and just generally tooling around on the bike with the dog.

I did it a lot in the past on my 47, with both original hardtail and 58-64 pan swingarm frame. I lived off the bike for the better part of 2 years at one point.

!983



 This will be me one day.

 

[tx2sturgis]

So far we have stayed in the lower cost zone, but if you are able to spend a few more bucks, you might want to consider this company, they have some nice aluminum-frame trailers:

https://www.completetrailers.com/category-motorsport

Their toyhaulers top out above 100 grand but the more modest camper/haulers are under 15 grand or so.

 

[GntlStone]

You may want to check out Vnose trailers out of NY. I'm impressed with the quality or their specs, price and variety.
https://www.vnosetrailers.com/

 

[GntlStone]

Maybe something like this with some factory d-rings or etrack in the floor. 

https://www.vnosetrailers.com/8-5x16ta-v-nose-brand-enclosed-trailer/

8.5X16TA V-NOSE BRAND ENCLOSED TRAILER

Specs:
8.5X16TA + 2FT VNOSE
6FT 6IN INTERIOR HEIGHT
STANDARD SEMI-SCREWLESS EXTERIOR
COMPLETE BOX BEAM CONSTRUCTION
6IN CAR HAULER MAIN FRAME
COMPLETE 16 ON-CENTER CONSTRUCTION
THERMO ROOF INSULATION
BOWED ROOF MEMBERS
3/8 PLYWOOD WALLS
3/8 PLYWOOD TRIM
3/4 PLYWOOD FLOOR
3500IBS DEXTER AXELS WITH 4IN DROP
15IN RADIAL TIRES
ELECTRIC BRAKES ON ALL 4 WHEELS
RV STYLE FLUSH SIDE DOOR WITH DEADBOLT & INTERIOR ALUMINUM FINISH
REAR RAMP WITH DUAL ASSIST CABLE
BARN DOORS AVAILABLE
INTERIOR LIGHT
ROOF VENT
COMPLETE L.E.D EXTERIOR LIGHTS
WHITE,BLACK,SILVER,CHARCOAL,PEWTER
5 YEAR WARRANTY
FINANCING AVAILABLE

[font=Oswald, sans-serif]SALE $5595[/font]

 

[Malamute]

Thanks, but 8+ wide is waaay bigger than I plan to haul. I cringe just thinking about driving it around in a town with narrow streets. I looked at their site, I dont know if they have options that would work for me. I need more space between the ball and front of the trailer, I normally have a cargo box over the hitch, if I can keep that I want to, its very handy and allows me to have the generator on the tow vehicle to run the dogs AC when Im detached and need dog AC when stopped or overnighting.

I may want to have a trailer made with axles farther back than standard so the weight of the bike and sidecar being at the rearmost part arent an issue. Moving it center for balance ruins the living space. The bed will lower over the bike/sidecar at the rear so Im not entirely wasting floor and living space when the bike is loaded. Currently the bike height is 44" off the deck if the mirror is moved. Ill want to make up a list of things i want to build in and calculate that weight, plus water weight, batteries, etc. Maybe strategic location of spare ammo to correct balance?

Anyone have weight differences between empty and camper-modified cargo trailers with a list of what they made and used?

My friend sold his Elk Mountain a while back, I resisted becoming interested in it, I didnt have the money, despite it being a very good deal for what it was and what he payed new, and I didnt want a trailer as heavy as his, but it was very well designed and built. It had the axles farther back than most common cargo trailer also, and now I understand more of why. It is pretty much exactly what id like to build in function and layout, but in a lighter version if possible, that will fit the bike and sidecar.

 

[tx2sturgis]

At some point you are going to have to sacrifice....something.

There are pros and cons to every choice you make. 

I sold my sidehack a few years ago...partly because I needed the money, but I could have sold other things. The bike was sold because it was just too impractical to haul it around, taking up a LOT of space, and it was heavy. 

I loved that bike, but made the decision based on other priorities.

I'm not suggesting you do that, but if you choose to haul it everywhere, there are some sacrifices you will have to make.

Despite the thread title, there is no perfect cargo trailer.