Selling an RV; a "heads-up" tale

[squid]

3+ years ago I sold my Conquest RV to a group of 4 buyers who arrived in a van, they were from Germany. I just wanted to relay what happened briefly as a warning to sellers. They came and saw the RV, loved it, and asked if they could pay by Paypal full price because endless reasons. I said I was not familiar with this and would prefer cash, but they insisted it was modern and safest for everyone and that they'd put the money in my account that night and I could verify it and they'd pick up the RV early the next morning. They said they planned on taking it to Baja. So I thought "hmmm" and waited an hour and sure enough, there was the full amount right there in my bank account. I am old school and figured once it's there, it's there. They emailed to verify I'd seen the amount in and that the title transfer and keys hand-over were to take place at 6 AM as it was a "done deal". So, I went to bed thinking things were fine, but this little birdie in my head woke me up and said to check on things again. So I went to my bank account online at 3:30 AM and sure enough 100% of the recently-transferred-in funds were now withdrawn, without my knowledge, without my permission! I called Paypal and they said the buyers had filed a "dispute" and so Paypal had the right to withdraw the money and that it would take days to resolve! I called a friend to come as backup for when the buyers arrived at 6AM because this all sort of scared me. My friend told them "cash and carry only and you're lucky we don't call the police." Amazingly (not) these people were able to hit every ATM in town and come up with the funds, and we completed the paperwork. THAT was a close call, because the police barely look for nice stolen cars, let alone old RVs, and once it crossed to Baja, it'd be adios. I would never be able to track down these foreign buyers, the RV or the cash. So that's why I will never take Paypal for transactions, because the buyer can falsify a dispute and get their money and run. Getting things back is next to impossible. I think it's got to be a well-known ripoff technique in some circles.

 

[peteg59]

Thanks for sharing that info.
I have only used paypal for purchases on ebay.

And after reading of that sketchy tale above, it will stay that way...

 

[mattvei]

If you use a Zelle Bank to bank money transfer the money cannot be taken back or disputed.

 

[Gypsyjoe#1]

What is zelle?

 

[Morgana]

What is zelle?

https://www.zellepay.com/
Sort of similar to PayPal.

 

[TooFarGone]

Thanks for sharing that info.
I have only used paypal for purchases on ebay.

And after reading of that sketchy tale above, it will stay that way...

I hadn't heard of that particular kind of attempted rip-off, but like you I've long been careful with PayPal. At least 15 years ago I was hearing about PayPal freezing entire bank accounts linked to a PP account, because someone filed a "dispute" over a transaction. Also, back then a co-worker's PP account was hacked - which allowed the hacker to drain his linked checking account. Aargh!

I have never linked my PayPal account to my main checking account. When I was selling used books in a small way online, I joined a local federally insured credit union and linked that checking account to PayPal. It never had more than a few hundred bucks' balance, so that if my PP got hacked or I got hit with a bogus "dispute," I wouldn't lose much. Eventually that CU started charging fees and I closed the account. At this time I don't have my PP linked to any bank account.

Thanks for the info about Zelle, @mattvei . I also appreciate @squid sharing that story; so glad the wannabe thieves were foiled!

 

[flylo]

I would have taken their money then charged a $1000 to sign the title. You did make them give you a copy of proof of insurance I hope or if they got in a wreck you'd be liable. Also the proper way is to do the deal at the sec of state so you're sure it's out of your name.

 

[Gypsyjoe#1]

https://www.zellepay.com/
Sort of similar to PayPal.

Thanks for the info Morgana!!!!

 

[squid]

I would have taken their money then charged a $1000 to sign the title. You did make them give you a copy of proof of insurance I hope or if they got in a wreck you'd be liable. Also the proper way is to do the deal at the sec of state so you're sure it's out of your name.

I'll admit I was very unsophisticated as a seller and have learned a lot since. You're a sitting duck, especially with a group of buyers like that, it's intimidating, they're on your property, you're one person, so I called backup, a friend who is a retired Navy Captain and doesn't take crap...but even he wasn't as sophisticated as your proposal. I think next time I will meet a buyer in public for a test drive, with a friend, not at home, then transact at the licensing place with proof of insurance as you say. Sometimes I wonder why they didn't first pick up the RV then canceled the Paypal soon after --- but that's wasted motion. I'm just lucky they didn't.

 

[tzagi]

In paypal there are 2 ways of paying someone, 1. goods and services, 2. friends and family, #2 cannot be disputed and no fees are charged unlike #1

 

[Ripper238]

I refused to use PayPal from day 1. Why do I need PayPal when i have a CC and if a business doesn't take cash or CC then i am not joining PayPal to do business with you.

That's a scary incident there. You got lucky, so many people get screwed using PayPal.

On a side note i have used Zelle/Gpay for payback on dinner and whatnot from friends. Would never use any of them for anything over $100.

 

[Todd]

Zelle is an interbank transfer protocol. The money is one way and immediate. The banks have already resolved the transfer on both sides of the transaction and closed it. If there is a dispute, too bad, they have to ask for you to Zelle it back to them. It's equivalent to cash-in-hand.

 

[CoyoteG]

Money talks and BS walks.

 

[cortttt]

Thank you!

 

[Jimmyflorida]

I been an online seller for over 23 years and PayPal tends to protect the buyer a little better than the seller but when a dispute is trigger PayPal holds the the money they do not give the buyer a refund until the dispute is settled but at a buyer PayPal is great because if it a scam you will most likely get your money back but my rule of thumb on any expense item like cars is cash only because cash is king

 

[Jon Donahue]

Yes, Zelle is the same as a bank wire transfer. Wells Fargo and other major banks let you do this online... seller's account direct into buyer's account. The buyer can also bring a paper certified bank check made out to the seller... here, the buyer has first given the money to his bank, which then makes out the check from them to the seller, not from the buyer to the seller. if worried about counterfeit, phone the buyers bank and talk to whoever made the check to verify that it is real. Wire transfers and bank drafts cannot be recalled by the buyer. But -- if they are part of a fraud, a criminal or terrorist activity, they can be voided by the issuing bank.

 

[[email protected]]

I have had 2 bad experiences with Paypal and I will never trust them again. Both of the purchases were on Facebook marketing and in each case the seller concealed their identy (Chinese companies) and sent a token product that was worthless and in no way related to what I bought. Paypal said that since I actually recieved a product, (a ribbon instead of an rv battery and a pair of cheap sunglasses instead of a pair of Keen hiking boots) that they Paypal would be unabe to help me. If you have to deal with Paypal in a purchase use your regular credit card as an extra measure of protection. My Capital One card was able to get my money back after several months of fighting.

 

[MikC]

3+ years ago I sold my Conquest RV to a group of 4 buyers who arrived in a van, they were from Germany. I just wanted to relay what happened briefly as a warning to sellers. They came and saw the RV, loved it, and asked if they could pay by Paypal full price because endless reasons. I said I was not familiar with this and would prefer cash, but they insisted it was modern and safest for everyone and that they'd put the money in my account that night and I could verify it and they'd pick up the RV early the next morning. They said they planned on taking it to Baja. So I thought "hmmm" and waited an hour and sure enough, there was the full amount right there in my bank account. I am old school and figured once it's there, it's there. They emailed to verify I'd seen the amount in and that the title transfer and keys hand-over were to take place at 6 AM as it was a "done deal". So, I went to bed thinking things were fine, but this little birdie in my head woke me up and said to check on things again. So I went to my bank account online at 3:30 AM and sure enough 100% of the recently-transferred-in funds were now withdrawn, without my knowledge, without my permission! I called Paypal and they said the buyers had filed a "dispute" and so Paypal had the right to withdraw the money and that it would take days to resolve! I called a friend to come as backup for when the buyers arrived at 6AM because this all sort of scared me. My friend told them "cash and carry only and you're lucky we don't call the police." Amazingly (not) these people were able to hit every ATM in town and come up with the funds, and we completed the paperwork. THAT was a close call, because the police barely look for nice stolen cars, let alone old RVs, and once it crossed to Baja, it'd be adios. I would never be able to track down these foreign buyers, the RV or the cash. So that's why I will never take Paypal for transactions, because the buyer can falsify a dispute and get their money and run. Getting things back is next to impossible. I think it's got to be a well-known ripoff technique in some circles.

I figured out a good method for selling any high priced item, especially a vehicle. After getting lectured from a buyer on craigslist who said, "NEVER give these strangers your address and ALWAYS meet in a public place," I now arrange to meet at a bank during open hours. There is a parking lot, there are cameras, there's armed security, and if they write a check, we can clear the funds right away.

 

[5D Highway (Sharon)]

3+ years ago I sold my Conquest RV to a group of 4 buyers who arrived in a van, they were from Germany. I just wanted to relay what happened briefly as a warning to sellers. They came and saw the RV, loved it, and asked if they could pay by Paypal full price because endless reasons. I said I was not familiar with this and would prefer cash, but they insisted it was modern and safest for everyone and that they'd put the money in my account that night and I could verify it and they'd pick up the RV early the next morning. They said they planned on taking it to Baja. So I thought "hmmm" and waited an hour and sure enough, there was the full amount right there in my bank account. I am old school and figured once it's there, it's there. They emailed to verify I'd seen the amount in and that the title transfer and keys hand-over were to take place at 6 AM as it was a "done deal". So, I went to bed thinking things were fine, but this little birdie in my head woke me up and said to check on things again. So I went to my bank account online at 3:30 AM and sure enough 100% of the recently-transferred-in funds were now withdrawn, without my knowledge, without my permission! I called Paypal and they said the buyers had filed a "dispute" and so Paypal had the right to withdraw the money and that it would take days to resolve! I called a friend to come as backup for when the buyers arrived at 6AM because this all sort of scared me. My friend told them "cash and carry only and you're lucky we don't call the police." Amazingly (not) these people were able to hit every ATM in town and come up with the funds, and we completed the paperwork. THAT was a close call, because the police barely look for nice stolen cars, let alone old RVs, and once it crossed to Baja, it'd be adios. I would never be able to track down these foreign buyers, the RV or the cash. So that's why I will never take Paypal for transactions, because the buyer can falsify a dispute and get their money and run. Getting things back is next to impossible. I think it's got to be a well-known ripoff technique in some circles.

Thank you for sharing that information. I had no idea they could do that.

 

[Happy Camper]

If you're a AAA member you can meet at a AAA office and have them do the transfer of ownership.

Money wise Zelle and cash are the way to go with vehicles.