RVers Please stop

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maki2 said:
Of course I understand the issues about the littering, I see it everyday when I head out on errands. Not just from RVs but also from people who have put up tents and tarp shelters all along the streets I drive down. There are only a few trash receptacles outdoors at some of the parks and city buildings.

This is a cause and effect situation. People living on the streets don't pay for trash collection services. Large cities can't afford to provide public dumpsters. Businesses have to keep their dumpsters locked up so they have room for their own trash and also to keep their trash from being dumped out onto the ground by pickers scavenging through the dumpsters.

If you choose to live in an RV on the street in a city you have made a choice to live under less than optimal conditions as far as your surroundings. You can't change it by asking people to do something like quit gathering together and quit leaving trash behind. They are going to do what they have to do to get by on a day by day basis. They are not worried about what may or many not happen tomorrow, they don't have that luxury, their life is lived in immediate response to their needs. They don't have a good option for a place to put their trash so in the end they leave it behind for the city services to deal with because they are often fed up with the city hassling them. Again, cause and effect and in this situation a circular one that never ends until the city gets fed up and passes no overnight parking zoning except by cars with permit stickers in their windows. Even the "good" people who are living in the streets in their RVs are not appreciated by most of the locals in the community.
That's just wrong on so many counts. They have just as much ability to properly remove their trash as anyone. Or I guess their behavior is to be tolerated because the are "poor and downtrodden"?
I'm old but in my generation people may have been poor but they had personal pride.

Now to take the other side, every day I pass by the very same spots on the on/off ramps to the highway where truckers stop and spend the night. Every day there are pee bottles, fast food containers etc. dumped out right where they were parked. The county/state crews do periodic cleanups so I guess it's providing people jobs by others being slobs.

Just sad. There's no politics to this, it's just slobs being slobs.
 
gsfish said:
A little off subject here but I have been dealing with some of the same shortcomings of human nature.

For YEARS I have cleaned the rights of way of the two entrances to my neighborhood. Although I very occasionally get a wave and a thank you a couple times a year from passers by most people avert their vision like I've got a cardboard sign. In the hundreds of times I've done this I have never had anyone stop to help. I can fill two yard size cans with no trouble at times and I've seen everything from beer cans and dead cats to my favorite... dirty diapers.

That said there is just a certain personality that sees the world as their trash can and always will. "We're almost home kids, throw the trash out".

The other day I had a Forest Gump moment. I felt like Forest did when he didn't feel like runnin anymore and I may never pick up after those losers again. I'm now working with a neighbor to improve a little park down the street that the county has no interest in maintaining (wrong side of town?).

Sorry for the rant but there will always be people that have no respect for others OR themselves. Add in the unfortunates with real mental issues and this is what you get.

Guy
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Exactly. I occasionally (not as often as I perhaps should) grab a bag, gloves or my trash picker-upper claw" and clean up near where I am. There will always be the litteres, we "picker-uppers" just need to outnumber them.[/font]
 
crofter said:
Goes with the territory, as a camp host picking up trash is part of the job and protects animals from things that will kill them. Many campers make this a contest when it is time to go, who can find the most microtrash?

 I always got satisfaction with the cleaned look of the ground, and the act of throwing the stuff in the park dumpster. Also think of the animals and their lives, not the people who made the mess.
-crofter
True satisfaction is indeed internal, not reflecting on others or based on their actions.
 
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it is people.....trying to live in means that are rough for many and stupid kicks in and desperation kicks in and no one is going to change that unless means from 'the city involved' works to correct............people are gonna do what they must at all times if NO options are available and fact is, people on streets living is out there so 'come'on all cities' find your best options to help vs. any thing else....no choices in the end but to fix an issue then B & M about it.
 
and what looms ahead....gonna get worse for being truly homeless so everyone hang on for the wild ride coming. no joke, worse is coming for those who are in peril now or close to it on that edge.....
 
LERCA said:
Why do you group together?

Because when you see one or more people camped somewhere others think, "Ah, I can get away with parking here."
 
If I ever leave my car and don’t move into a house or apartment then I would buy a Class B and continue stealth. Where I live in Los Angeles people are starting to get really angry. We have certain major streets that have been settled by RVers. Why do you group together? People are running generators late at night and have been caught on video dumping human waste in the streets and tossing garbage out. These RVs are huge and obvious and when there are 7 or 8 lined up like it’s a free RV Park you ruin it for the rest of us. In my hometown they have made rules that you can’t park an “oversized” RV in your own driveway. Believe me we will no longer be allowed to park on the streets overnight soon. There are a lot of stealth cars and vans that are quiet and respectful but these areas of huge RVs permanently parked are awful. And what makes people think they can dump urine and feces on public streets or toss garbage out the window? We are having serious fights over the overwhelming number of homeless lining the streets living in tents for blocks on end and now attention is turning to the growing number of RVs. They are ruining the lifestyle for the rest of us.
Those that need to listen to you won't.
If kicked out they will just go mess up a different area.
What might be needed is a squatter's zone and have them police themselves.
Give them a dumpster and tell them any trash on the street and they will all be kicked out.
 
I've done homeless outreach for years. Used to work for a few places in the Bay Area. Low paying job, but I started as volunteer and was asked on since I was already doing it.
A lot of homeless are mentally ill. Or what is called dual diagnosed, meaning they have substance abuse problems in addition to mental health problems.
I think this goes a long way towards explaining why people who live in tents or RVs are not circumspect about their trash or human waste disposal.
They are functioning at just enough of a level to keep dry and fed. Sometimes not even that.
The reason we see so many of these people are numerous. But two of the biggest causes are the hollowing out of the mental health system in this country. There are no public mental health institutions anymore except at the county level. And even those are not going to hold on to people long term. Most counties/metro areas have devolved such institutions to private ownership by healthcare companies.
Which of course means, unless you have money in your family, you aren't welcome as a long term resident.
In some cases we could connect veterans with a VA facility that could help. Though VA resources are limited in this regard when compared to the sheer numbers of veterans who need help.
In some encampments we would come through and help organize clean ups along with needle exchange and other harm reduction measures. But that is only a once a week, if that, kind of thing.

I'd add that this kind of behavior is hardly limited to urban RV campers and homeless encampments.
Was at a nice campground in NC last weekend. Great hiking area next to a lake.
2nd day I was there the people across from me utterly wrecked their campsite. They left a ton of empty beer cans around (alcohol is forbidden in the campground) a bunch of bones and other food garbage and they managed to burn not one but two big circles into the picnic table with an iron pan.
Not the first time I've seen such self centered recklessness.
I've also seen what it looks like when someone dumps their blackwater out in the wilderness. The same chemicals you treat the tank with wreck the local plantlife.
Of course I don't need to tell you that you don't leave food or food waste laying about in a campground for a good reason. You don't want raccoons and bears getting used to it as an easy source of nourishment.

It really saddens and angers me when I see politicians, business orgs and police departments using 'the homeless' as a faceless bogeyman to help push their political football du jour along.
Homeless are people too. But for the grace of god there go you.
 
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There are no public mental health institutions anymore except at the county level. And even those are not going to hold on to people long term. Most counties/metro areas have devolved such institutions to private ownership by healthcare companies.
What a mess! This is the really sick part... if you take decent care of the mentally ill or homeless, then you will get a lot more of them moving in from places where they are abused. The cost burden is on local residents who don't want them there in the first place! So it turns into a contest to see who can be "least accommodating" so they don't get over-burdened with this "problem".

This should be a federal burden, not a local one.
 
And, you know, not only are many chronically homeless singly, dually, triply or more diagnosed, but they have chronically and actively resisted being re-homed into sticks and bricks shelter because of the rules and regulations that go along with those.

It is a very complicated issue, and one for which I have no answer,

I do believe it is important to make every effort to lead with compassion when encountering anyone who is struggling for whatever reason.
 
The number of people living or trying to live the mobile lifestyle has increased dramatically. The word on the net is that public land is the place you want to be so load up whatever you can live in and stay on public lands rent free. For every RV sold someone is fitting out a school bus, cargo truck or trailer, van, SUV or car into a living space.

Full timers, locals and weekenders are all jockeying for a place to park up for the night. Even with a 14 day limit, when someone rolls out someone else then rolls. Many are traveling/camping responsibly and respectfully, some are not.

It’s difficult to dance within the different socioeconomic circles without stepping on someone’s toes. One has to be mindful about what they say and how they say it.
 
I've worked at some shelters and outreach programs for homeless.
As mentioned above, some people with mental health issues and accompanying problems are reticent to be directed towards institutional resources. They've had bad experiences with counselors. Who honestly are only following rules.
Those rules are often predicated by insurance requirements or local, state and federal funding requirements.
Also in a lot of areas the only resource for homeless and people with substance abuse problems are faith based institutions.
That is a whole can of worms for people with mental health problems.
But even putting that aside, many of these soup kitchens, shelters and such will really put the religion part more forward than it should be.
There have been a few successful programs in California and a few other states where the county or some wealthy benefactor bought up some properties and used them to house people. In Santa Clara county they did this as a way to absorb people from a mental health institution that was closing.
A lot of them still get some in home care but live mostly independently.
That would be the ideal situation, but in todays real estate market it looks less and less likely.
 
There are some shelters for homeless to stay in.If you stay there and leave your stuff on the street it will disappear.Besides the requirement to endure a sermon about finding Jesus before you are served a meal.
 
People have been complaining about other people not acting right and ruining it for the rest of us since I first found this board over 10 years ago. They were right and them being right didn't change anything. It just gave them a place to complain about it.
 
I’m not a fan of having to pay a religious “price” for receiving services, either. But just to play devil’s (yikes! no offense!) advocate for a minute … I currently volunteer with a nonreligious organization that sometimes shares space with a very religious organization. The preacher comes in, does a little pep talk, gives away some stuff, then prays with people in a way that puts pretty high pressure on them to participate.
So, in my opinion, ick to the high-pressure prayers at the end — but the fact is, his pep talk is fantastic, a much better morale builder than we’re able to offer, partly because he’s bilingual and has a lot of charisma (compared to, for example, me, who has fractured Spanish and 0 charisma). These people (brand-new asylum seekers just let go by the US govt) have been through hell, and he makes them feel (I imagine) like they’re back in normal life, and valued, and able to laugh a bit. From prisoners towing a line to audience members being entertained, for a moment.
So, I know that using your services to push your religion is optional — not all religious service groups do that — and personally I’m strongly opposed — but here’s one guy doing a thing I really, really disapprove of, and at the same time he seems to be doing a lot of good.
So go figure. You don’t see a lot of Atheist Disaster Services or Secular Humanist Charities groups out there, for whatever reason. Sometimes you have to take the “ick” with the “sweet!” Life can be a tangle that way.
^^I would not want to push this idea too far, just to get it on the table as one piece of the puzzle.
 
Yes I realize with this website I’m preaching to the choir. Ugh. This is a group of responsible nomads and I highly doubt the others read this site. It’s so upsetting that I may have to leave my beautiful, safe area full of resources for both residents and those of us without houses because of the irresponsible selfish actions of a few. I’m the person who cleaned up my local park on Mondays (ocean views and clean well-maintained park) when non-residents had filled it full of garbage, food, wrappers, bottles and cans. I am even more respectful when I am visiting other people’s parks and towns and nature and wildlife and national parks. All are treasures. Even if I achieve my dream of a Class B I will still park as inconspicuously as possible.
I have actually learned a lot about how to live respectfully on here and I hope it’s not too late.

Curious. Have you tried to talk/befriend them? Maybe explain and help teach them? Not everyone has a broad understanding of right and wrong.

I have always tried to do the right thing while seeing so many do wrong, and yet somehow I get punished... Its infuriating and discouraging.
 
Those that need to listen to you won't.
If kicked out they will just go mess up a different area.
What might be needed is a squatter's zone and have them police themselves.
Give them a dumpster and tell them any trash on the street and they will all be kicked out.
I left LA in the 80's and I am curious why would anyone remain there living especially in a vehicle? I left Nor Cal in the 90's and historically being allowed to live in a vehicle and park anywhere was a big no no. I did it in the early 80's in Nor Cal in a step van but fortunately had friends and family with property in rural areas that I could park at except when I chose to sleep overnight in a mall parking lot. Because I was an assistant mgr. at a cafe the security guard allowed me to stay as long as it was a minimal amount which was when I had a closing shift and then an opening shift back to back the next am just hours away. Is it because you have a good $ making gig that you stay in LA or any large urban area for that matter?
 
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