If I ever leave my car and don’t move into a house or apartment then I would buy a Class B and continue stealth. Where I live in Los Angeles people are starting to get really angry. We have certain major streets that have been settled by RVers. Why do you group together? People are running generators late at night and have been caught on video dumping human waste in the streets and tossing garbage out. These RVs are huge and obvious and when there are 7 or 8 lined up like it’s a free RV Park you ruin it for the rest of us. In my hometown they have made rules that you can’t park an “oversized” RV in your own driveway. Believe me we will no longer be allowed to park on the streets overnight soon. There are a lot of stealth cars and vans that are quiet and respectful but these areas of huge RVs permanently parked are awful. And what makes people think they can dump urine and feces on public streets or toss garbage out the window? We are having serious fights over the overwhelming number of homeless lining the streets living in tents for blocks on end and now attention is turning to the growing number of RVs. They are ruining the lifestyle for the rest of us.
RVers Please stop
- Thread starter LERCA
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Of course I understand the issues about the littering, I see it everyday when I head out on errands. Not just from RVs but also from people who have put up tents and tarp shelters all along the streets I drive down. There are only a few trash receptacles outdoors at some of the parks and city buildings.
This is a cause and effect situation. People living on the streets don't pay for trash collection services. Large cities can't afford to provide public dumpsters. Businesses have to keep their dumpsters locked up so they have room for their own trash and also to keep their trash from being dumped out onto the ground by pickers scavenging through the dumpsters.
If you choose to live in an RV on the street in a city you have made a choice to live under less than optimal conditions as far as your surroundings. You can't change it by asking people to do something like quit gathering together and quit leaving trash behind. They are going to do what they have to do to get by on a day by day basis. They are not worried about what may or many not happen tomorrow, they don't have that luxury, their life is lived in immediate response to their needs. They don't have a good option for a place to put their trash so in the end they leave it behind for the city services to deal with because they are often fed up with the city hassling them. Again, cause and effect and in this situation a circular one that never ends until the city gets fed up and passes no overnight parking zoning except by cars with permit stickers in their windows. Even the "good" people who are living in the streets in their RVs are not appreciated by most of the locals in the community.
This is a cause and effect situation. People living on the streets don't pay for trash collection services. Large cities can't afford to provide public dumpsters. Businesses have to keep their dumpsters locked up so they have room for their own trash and also to keep their trash from being dumped out onto the ground by pickers scavenging through the dumpsters.
If you choose to live in an RV on the street in a city you have made a choice to live under less than optimal conditions as far as your surroundings. You can't change it by asking people to do something like quit gathering together and quit leaving trash behind. They are going to do what they have to do to get by on a day by day basis. They are not worried about what may or many not happen tomorrow, they don't have that luxury, their life is lived in immediate response to their needs. They don't have a good option for a place to put their trash so in the end they leave it behind for the city services to deal with because they are often fed up with the city hassling them. Again, cause and effect and in this situation a circular one that never ends until the city gets fed up and passes no overnight parking zoning except by cars with permit stickers in their windows. Even the "good" people who are living in the streets in their RVs are not appreciated by most of the locals in the community.
Sorry but we have plenty of public trash cans here. And open dumpsters in many shopping centers ( it’s a really nice area) Especially in areas these RVs are grouped together. I don’t care what your situation is ( I am in my car living on less than most people) there is no excuse for tossing garbage and human waste on the streets. Until these people started clumping together and drawing attention and breaking the rules of common courtesy and humanity the police and city governments looked the other way. They even told me I could sleep in the sheriff’s parking lot. Now they are going to cause major problems. They have started angering people who are going to get rules enforced against sleeping in vehicles. And they will be facing major fines. You are not exempt from laws because your life is hard ( hard for me to feel sorry for people in enormous RVs when I’m in a car) and the local cities have been exceptionally kind and generous about allowing giant RVs to park in neighborhoods where condos start at a million dollars. It is a clean safe place where if people weren’t liked they certainly were never hassled. The little bit of Southern California culture that still lingers and the liberal views on homelessness being tolerated. And the gratitude for that is dumping urine on the street and tossing garbage. Oh hell no.
This is a concern in many large cities, especially on the west coast. Old RVs are cheap, rents are high, and homelessness is a growing problem. Unfortunately, most of the people living in RVs in the situations you describe do not visit this forum. The ones that do are guided to free camping areas on public lands and are made aware of how to find basic services. Treating the land gently and respecting fellow campers are also things we work to convey to everyone who visits the forum.
Homelessness is too large of a problem for us to solve and these discussions often become contentious so please remember to be polite with your comments.
Homelessness is too large of a problem for us to solve and these discussions often become contentious so please remember to be polite with your comments.
It isn’t RVs that are ruining the lifestyle, it’s the people living it.
Many people are living the mobile lifestyle today than ever before, some because they want too, some because they have no where else to go. Some chose cars and vans to live in, some choose RVs. The typical mass produced RVs don’t show their age very well. Mileage, weather, poor maintenance and years parked out in the sun seem to suck the life out of them. It doesn’t take long for one to start to look dilapidated.
Many people are living the mobile lifestyle today than ever before, some because they want too, some because they have no where else to go. Some chose cars and vans to live in, some choose RVs. The typical mass produced RVs don’t show their age very well. Mileage, weather, poor maintenance and years parked out in the sun seem to suck the life out of them. It doesn’t take long for one to start to look dilapidated.
It must be human nature to resent others who live differently than us. The issues facing folks in large cities are more complex than ever and becoming worse. The problems described are not associated only with certain types of abodes but with everyone living on the street. Some cities have serious problems with human feces on the sidewalks and doorsteps of businesses, that isn't coming from people living in large rv's. Cities spend millions picking human trash and human waste every year. It seems financially responsible to build public restrooms and locate trash receptacles where they are needed in cities and towns. Businesses lock their restrooms and dumpsters because they can't keep up with the overwhelming demand put on them by folks who can't find a public restroom or trash bin. Cities often refuse to build public restrooms because they are used for purposes other than the intended. These problems have been around forever and unfortunately I don't hold out much hope that they will be solved. I do know that throwing dollars at a problem without a long term solution in mind does not work. There is a reason folks live in rv's on suburban streets and it has nothing to do with the freedom it affords. There is nothing freeing about trying every waking moment to hide from others how you are forced to live. Increasing population without increasing housing and services is a prescription for failure and that is what we are witnessing. The population in these overburdened cities should be demanding these services for the poor among them.
vanbrat
Well-known member
Around here there are a lot of bad RV things happening. There was one in our neighborhood that went from spot to spot and usually left every spot nasty, as it then moved a few yards or blocks away. It barely ran and was leaking oil like crazy and smelled really bad. The scary things it seemed to leave behind most was used needles..... Everyone was having to lock down EVERYTHING. As theft was very common. It was not a pleasant thing. The cops knew, but really didn't have enough authority or power to get the problem solved. They where as frustrated as the rest of us. Even scarier was that some one had had enough and the RV was found parked and torn to shreds. Doors busted up, windows broken, tires slashed etc... I don't know what happened to the 3-4-5 people that called it 'home' but people were happy that it was not roaming anymore. I don't think the problem is going to go away until some of the problems that cause this kind of thing gets taken care of. Notice I said people on both sides of the problem..... I don't know the answer, but hopefully soon someone can figure it out.
What it comes down to is that some of the visible, most negative and chronic issues which are undercurrents within the chronically homeless population are now on display in new ways, with more and more who have been able to find a vehicle or RV to live in.
It’s not dumping raw sewage, trash, garbage, whatever, it is lack of consideration, sense of responsibility, awareness of self in relation to others, etc., showing themselves in ways specific to living in vehicles.
Human behavior is human behavior, and will always show itself in whatever setting people find themselves in.
As LoupGarou said, this is a people problem.
And, it is enormously complex and we can’t fix it, only do our best not to contribute to it.
It’s not dumping raw sewage, trash, garbage, whatever, it is lack of consideration, sense of responsibility, awareness of self in relation to others, etc., showing themselves in ways specific to living in vehicles.
Human behavior is human behavior, and will always show itself in whatever setting people find themselves in.
As LoupGarou said, this is a people problem.
And, it is enormously complex and we can’t fix it, only do our best not to contribute to it.
Yes I realize with this website I’m preaching to the choir. Ugh. This is a group of responsible nomads and I highly doubt the others read this site. It’s so upsetting that I may have to leave my beautiful, safe area full of resources for both residents and those of us without houses because of the irresponsible selfish actions of a few. I’m the person who cleaned up my local park on Mondays (ocean views and clean well-maintained park) when non-residents had filled it full of garbage, food, wrappers, bottles and cans. I am even more respectful when I am visiting other people’s parks and towns and nature and wildlife and national parks. All are treasures. Even if I achieve my dream of a Class B I will still park as inconspicuously as possible.
I have actually learned a lot about how to live respectfully on here and I hope it’s not too late.
I have actually learned a lot about how to live respectfully on here and I hope it’s not too late.
nature lover
Well-known member
Cammalu - We need to police our own ranks. If I see anyone abusing property. leaving trash or ? I will kindly tell them about it. If I see it again I will get another witness to go with me to talk to them. And if it continues or someone does not respond properly I would not hesitate to make it public; on this forum or if that is violating rules I would private message everyone I could. I have done something like this in the past as a camp host. I rarely had to go back a second time. In several cases I helped someone clean up their mess when they responded properly. I once left some trash bags at our private campground because I had to leave in an emergency. I came back two days latter to find the trash gone and a note left for me. When I explained the reason for it our management understood and thanked me for driving the 90 miles to come back to the camp after my wife got out of the hospital. I think that anyone with common sense would understand why we have to police our own.
uncagingmyspirit
Well-known member
Former & future van dweller - small RV is my next home on wheels.
I totally understand your frustration. I'm in the Seattle area, specifically where RVs are scattered throughout the area.. Most of them are horrible people. They trash the area, they steal things from cars,houses etc and sell them right in front of their RV/van; drug dealings, domestic violence, prostitution - you name it, it's probably being done.
But please know that hard-working, retired and disabled van dwellers and RV lifers are just as frustrated. Everything those horrible people are doing reflects on us, who are not doing it, and those of us who go out of our way to try to set a good example.
The solution is definitely not an easy one. Nobody wants to come promise. Not the government, not the neighbors, not the businesses, not the people in RVs or tents and not the outreach programs who service the homeless community.
From time to time, I've seen somebody still a trash can that an RV or van dweller bought themselves and put it on the sidewalk in hopes that others will use it. I've seen people using a park dump their trash out in front of a RV simply because they thought it was funny. There's a lot of
a$$hole people on both sides. An organization in Mountain View, California tried repeatedly to bring permanent building neighbors together with Van dwellers, RVs and homeless; in hopes to bridge communication between both sides. Very few people from the permanent building side showed up, but some did. There's just no easy solution.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
I totally understand your frustration. I'm in the Seattle area, specifically where RVs are scattered throughout the area.. Most of them are horrible people. They trash the area, they steal things from cars,houses etc and sell them right in front of their RV/van; drug dealings, domestic violence, prostitution - you name it, it's probably being done.
But please know that hard-working, retired and disabled van dwellers and RV lifers are just as frustrated. Everything those horrible people are doing reflects on us, who are not doing it, and those of us who go out of our way to try to set a good example.
The solution is definitely not an easy one. Nobody wants to come promise. Not the government, not the neighbors, not the businesses, not the people in RVs or tents and not the outreach programs who service the homeless community.
From time to time, I've seen somebody still a trash can that an RV or van dweller bought themselves and put it on the sidewalk in hopes that others will use it. I've seen people using a park dump their trash out in front of a RV simply because they thought it was funny. There's a lot of
a$$hole people on both sides. An organization in Mountain View, California tried repeatedly to bring permanent building neighbors together with Van dwellers, RVs and homeless; in hopes to bridge communication between both sides. Very few people from the permanent building side showed up, but some did. There's just no easy solution.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
JDub
Well-known member
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This is the very subject I wrote about last week and got deleted for writing the exact same thing about Austin and the manner in which even supposedly liberal cities have a limit to their tolerance - no politics were involved - It shows itself with increasingly draconian limits on personal freedoms that, once instituted, seem to have no end. I think we're only seeing the beginning of this, the number of people living on the streets, for whatever reason they have, is increasing, and increasing fast. A tsunami is building out there. I think everyone should recognize this and anticipate the impact on their personal lifestyle- not only from overcrowding, pollution, and social issues, but from the inevitable regulatory response from the PTB... I for one am keeping a close eye on it.
Good time to head for the hills!
Cheers
Good time to head for the hills!
Cheers
JDub
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Here's one dystopian example of a huge challenge to the right to privacy: A company in Charleston SC can currently geo locate 15 BILLION vehicles... Real time. Think of how that could be used against you...
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/new-document-exposes-how-company-can-track-your-car-real-time
Cheers
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/new-document-exposes-how-company-can-track-your-car-real-time
Cheers
JDub said:
I agree.
Restrictions will then catch everyone in their net.
A little off subject here but I have been dealing with some of the same shortcomings of human nature.
For YEARS I have cleaned the rights of way of the two entrances to my neighborhood. Although I very occasionally get a wave and a thank you a couple times a year from passers by most people avert their vision like I've got a cardboard sign. In the hundreds of times I've done this I have never had anyone stop to help. I can fill two yard size cans with no trouble at times and I've seen everything from beer cans and dead cats to my favorite... dirty diapers.
That said there is just a certain personality that sees the world as their trash can and always will. "We're almost home kids, throw the trash out".
The other day I had a Forest Gump moment. I felt like Forest did when he didn't feel like runnin anymore and I may never pick up after those losers again. I'm now working with a neighbor to improve a little park down the street that the county has no interest in maintaining (wrong side of town?).
Sorry for the rant but there will always be people that have no respect for others OR themselves. Add in the unfortunates with real mental issues and this is what you get.
Guy
For YEARS I have cleaned the rights of way of the two entrances to my neighborhood. Although I very occasionally get a wave and a thank you a couple times a year from passers by most people avert their vision like I've got a cardboard sign. In the hundreds of times I've done this I have never had anyone stop to help. I can fill two yard size cans with no trouble at times and I've seen everything from beer cans and dead cats to my favorite... dirty diapers.
That said there is just a certain personality that sees the world as their trash can and always will. "We're almost home kids, throw the trash out".
The other day I had a Forest Gump moment. I felt like Forest did when he didn't feel like runnin anymore and I may never pick up after those losers again. I'm now working with a neighbor to improve a little park down the street that the county has no interest in maintaining (wrong side of town?).
Sorry for the rant but there will always be people that have no respect for others OR themselves. Add in the unfortunates with real mental issues and this is what you get.
Guy
JDub said:
15 billion vehicle points, not 15 billion vehicles. There are currently less than 1.5 billion road-legal vehicles on planet earth and a much lower number of gps trackable vehicles.
Still, the capability is real and it IS happening to one extent or another for many owners of newer cars and trucks.
crofter
Well-known member
Goes with the territory, as a camp host picking up trash is part of the job and protects animals from things that will kill them. Many campers make this a contest when it is time to go, who can find the most microtrash?
I always got satisfaction with the cleaned look of the ground, and the act of throwing the stuff in the park dumpster. Also think of the animals and their lives, not the people who made the mess.
-crofter
I always got satisfaction with the cleaned look of the ground, and the act of throwing the stuff in the park dumpster. Also think of the animals and their lives, not the people who made the mess.
-crofter
