I can understand not wanting to waste money. Really research before buying anything. Sometimes the more expensive item will be a better buy because of the quality and the fact that it will actually work right for your application.
Opinons on Solar Power
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Almost There
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tonyandkaren said:
Yeah, it's taken a lot of research to get me to cut loose with the amount of money that I will be pouring in to compressor fridge, batteries, solar panels and all the auxiliary equipment needed to go with them all. OTOH, I have learned over the years that doing it right the first time is the best way to go. But I've always been very frugal, mostly out of necessity for decades, so putting a couple of grand in to it all is nail biting!
Caroline - the starting point is an honest evaluation of what you need - the size of the cooler will dictate how much power it's going to need and how much time you spend with lights on and running/charging things will decide how much battery reserve you need which then dictates how much charging power you will have to have to adequately run everything.
I took cardboard and built a mock up of the cooler I was looking at, then studied it at some length to figure out if it was too large or too small for what I figured I was going to have to have in the cooler right after a shopping trip - it doesn't do any good to figure it out after you've bought or only count on minimum storage. Heck, if you're not a visual person, load the cardboard mock up with stuff out of the fridge and see if you can make it all fit.
Since that's going to be the biggest power user, it's worthwhile to start there. Then add in all the other electrical needs. Next comes batteries to power it all - wet batteries, AGM, lithium. Where to put them might dictate the type of batteries used. Remember that you should only take the batteries down to 50% of capacity at any time.
Then and only then can the solar system be designed to accommodate the battery needs.
Spaceman Spiff
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jimindenver said:
jimindenver: I don't know what refrigerator you are using but I run a old (1982!) Norcold 251D 2.1 cu. ft. frig with 200W solar and 208 ah battery with power to spare. Only twice this summer did I not get back to 100%: one was a hot, humid 96° day with overcast skies and the other was this last week parked for three days under trees. Running the frig, ceiling fan, LED lights, and charging my phone and laptop, I am usually back to full batteries by noon.
-- Spiff
Caroline57,
I am retired and do not have to be anywhere or need a computer to earn a living, so how I live wouldn't work for those who do.
I have NO added power system, just the starter battery, which is fine to recharge my iPhone, the only electronic device I carry. It works for me. I use the Xtreme ice chest and either a solar rechargeable lantern and/or the candelier lantern, or a battery powered fan when needed. For heat, the Mr Heater Buddy heater. I do carry a heavy duty extension cord, a small electric space heater, and an electric clip on desk lamp in the event I find myself with electric hookups somewhere (usually someone's driveway or once in a while a private RV park overnight). I mostly camp in national forests/BLM/State parks. Extreme weather requiring more and I relocate to a place with milder climate.
I have camped with people who have elaborate electrical systems and it seems to me they spend a lot of time watching battery levels, etc. Rain or clouds for a few days and they are asking to place their milk in my ice chest, sitting in the dark, freaking out because their laptops are dead.
The portable solar panels/kits are heavy (45#?) and take up a lot of space. A good friend of mine, with whom I have camped for several weeks at a time, bought one and after a couple of months, she just quit using it (and her fridge) because it was just too much trouble to deal with.
It just all depends on how you live. I thrive on simplicity. I don't mind breaking camp to make a supply run once a week because "breaking camp" to me means stowing the stove and bag chair. Done.
Just wanted to present the other side. Without all the extras, I am free to park anywhere the van will go, am set up in less than a minute or two and have nothing worth stealing (except the van itself). I love the peace of nothing to worry about.
Best wishes.
I am retired and do not have to be anywhere or need a computer to earn a living, so how I live wouldn't work for those who do.
I have NO added power system, just the starter battery, which is fine to recharge my iPhone, the only electronic device I carry. It works for me. I use the Xtreme ice chest and either a solar rechargeable lantern and/or the candelier lantern, or a battery powered fan when needed. For heat, the Mr Heater Buddy heater. I do carry a heavy duty extension cord, a small electric space heater, and an electric clip on desk lamp in the event I find myself with electric hookups somewhere (usually someone's driveway or once in a while a private RV park overnight). I mostly camp in national forests/BLM/State parks. Extreme weather requiring more and I relocate to a place with milder climate.
I have camped with people who have elaborate electrical systems and it seems to me they spend a lot of time watching battery levels, etc. Rain or clouds for a few days and they are asking to place their milk in my ice chest, sitting in the dark, freaking out because their laptops are dead.
The portable solar panels/kits are heavy (45#?) and take up a lot of space. A good friend of mine, with whom I have camped for several weeks at a time, bought one and after a couple of months, she just quit using it (and her fridge) because it was just too much trouble to deal with.
It just all depends on how you live. I thrive on simplicity. I don't mind breaking camp to make a supply run once a week because "breaking camp" to me means stowing the stove and bag chair. Done.
Just wanted to present the other side. Without all the extras, I am free to park anywhere the van will go, am set up in less than a minute or two and have nothing worth stealing (except the van itself). I love the peace of nothing to worry about.
Best wishes.
Caroline57
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Stargazer said:
See I'm a bit of a minimalist and I feel like everything I do I get talked into 10 other things. And i do need my Mac. It's how I manage all my photography stuff. There's no point in having a professional camera if you don't have a computer. And I mean I'm no photographer but I dabble and I use transferred photos in my art sometimes. So I need something. And I'll be around towns every few days I feel like I'm an incredibly social person, I love my alone time but I'm not gonna hide from civilization for weeks. I just feel like I don't like coolers. Or ice. I would worry about food going bad or it leaking in getting gross. wanna set my little dial and forget about it. I love camping but I'm a 20 year old girl, I don't need anything fancy but I need a few modern comforts. That's why I was looking for opinions. I'm only doing to use a battery powered drawing lamp also. No lighting.
Caroline57
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Almost There said:
Almost There
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Caroline57 said:
I can understand the not liking ice melting and leaking in to the food and the idea of food going bad if it gets too warm.
The first (ice melting and leaking in to the food is easily controlled with coolers by using a plastic container to hold the ice block so that it doesn't run everywhere. Food doesn't go in the 'ice bucket', ice doesn't go in the food area - problem solved!
Food spoilage is the result of human error. If one doesn't replace the ice as often as needed, food is going to spoil. As the human in charge, it's my fault if I run out of ice.
But your comment begs the question - what is it about coolers that you don't like? Or are you only familiar with coolers that you put ice in?
Caroline57
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Almost There said:
My main problem with them is that they are ugly. Fridges are quite pretty. They come in shinny smooth stainless steel. Coolers look like I spent the whole day fishing and needed somewhere to put my dead things. I guess this could be remedied by hiding it in a cabinet. But i just really didn't want to deal with ice I wanted to plug it in and forget it but I need to get over it I guess. And Im not really familiar with any coolers other than throwing an ice pack in a coleman and going for a kayak trip and having a pick nick. I know it sounds annoying that its all about looks but If you saw the plans for my van you would understand why i can just set a cooler, even one of the nice ones, just anywhere. My van may be taking forever, but its gonna be beautiful.
Caroline57
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Almost there, what would you recommend for a fridge or cooler?
dragonflyinthesky
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Solar power is worth the cost. I use a 4 day cooler that works no better than a 3 day cooler even with extra insulation. I wish I knew what fridge to use. I'm just glad I followed advice here about not getting the fridge you were thinking of months ago. My big expense is ice.
Almost There
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Since you don't like ice (and I agree with you on that one) and you also need to power that Mac and at least a couple of lights for nighttime use, you're left with a couple of choices.
Yes, you can get an RV fridge with the shiny front panel that you open the door on. HOWEVER, they are not designed to be run on 12V for anything more than running down the highway. They are designed for in RV's that are mostly hooked up to regular power or run on propane. To run them on propane you really need to have propane plumbed in - they won't run off of a 20 lb tank with a just a hose hooked up. They also require venting at the back and roof, that's what the vents you see on RV's are doing. Pricewise, expect about a $1,000 for one.
The compressor coolers that we have all recommended require no external venting, although they do require some space on one end where the compressor is, to dissipate the small amount of heat that they put out. The reason they are all top loading is because cold sinks so it's actually more efficient to have the top loading as opposed to front door that you're used to in a house fridge. The household refrigerator as we know it was never designed with efficiency in mind, more the convenience of the housewife and to look good in the kitchen.
And yes, you could put one in a pretty cabinet if you want. The ones I want happen to come in a color that's complimentary to my interior design!
I'm going with Whynter products because they come in a size that suits my needs and I've heard nothing but positives about them. Actually I will have two of them on the go, one as a refrigerator and one as a freezer. Unlike you I'm definitely a carnivore and not having to shop every 3 or 4 days for meat is terribly important to me. I can't imagine living without a deep freeze so I'm making provisions for one. The interior of the van was designed to accommodate my needs including needing a fridge and a freezer.
Here's Whynters' site:
http://www.whynter.com/product/outdoor_living/portable_fridges_freezers
Other manufacturers are ARB, Engel, Waeco(Dometic) and I've probably forgotten one or two.
The next decision is to whether to go for solar or use a generator. Both can be had for about the same price. The solar is cost free after initial set-up, the generator will need gas and occasional maintenance like spark plugs and oil changes both of which you can do yourself.
When planning out your electrical needs, check to see if a 12V cord is even available for the Mac. I understand that for many of them a 12V cord doesn't exist. That means you need to add an inverter to the mix to accommodate the Mac. The experts on battery sizing will help you once you know what you need in the way of power usage.
What you choose to use to keep yourself in comfort all comes down in the end to a matter of convenience and compromise. Living off the grid requires more work than living in a s&b home but the payout is enormous in many ways.
Yes, you can get an RV fridge with the shiny front panel that you open the door on. HOWEVER, they are not designed to be run on 12V for anything more than running down the highway. They are designed for in RV's that are mostly hooked up to regular power or run on propane. To run them on propane you really need to have propane plumbed in - they won't run off of a 20 lb tank with a just a hose hooked up. They also require venting at the back and roof, that's what the vents you see on RV's are doing. Pricewise, expect about a $1,000 for one.
The compressor coolers that we have all recommended require no external venting, although they do require some space on one end where the compressor is, to dissipate the small amount of heat that they put out. The reason they are all top loading is because cold sinks so it's actually more efficient to have the top loading as opposed to front door that you're used to in a house fridge. The household refrigerator as we know it was never designed with efficiency in mind, more the convenience of the housewife and to look good in the kitchen.
And yes, you could put one in a pretty cabinet if you want. The ones I want happen to come in a color that's complimentary to my interior design!
I'm going with Whynter products because they come in a size that suits my needs and I've heard nothing but positives about them. Actually I will have two of them on the go, one as a refrigerator and one as a freezer. Unlike you I'm definitely a carnivore and not having to shop every 3 or 4 days for meat is terribly important to me. I can't imagine living without a deep freeze so I'm making provisions for one. The interior of the van was designed to accommodate my needs including needing a fridge and a freezer.
Here's Whynters' site:
http://www.whynter.com/product/outdoor_living/portable_fridges_freezers
Other manufacturers are ARB, Engel, Waeco(Dometic) and I've probably forgotten one or two.
The next decision is to whether to go for solar or use a generator. Both can be had for about the same price. The solar is cost free after initial set-up, the generator will need gas and occasional maintenance like spark plugs and oil changes both of which you can do yourself.
When planning out your electrical needs, check to see if a 12V cord is even available for the Mac. I understand that for many of them a 12V cord doesn't exist. That means you need to add an inverter to the mix to accommodate the Mac. The experts on battery sizing will help you once you know what you need in the way of power usage.
What you choose to use to keep yourself in comfort all comes down in the end to a matter of convenience and compromise. Living off the grid requires more work than living in a s&b home but the payout is enormous in many ways.
Caroline57
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Almost there- all that was so unbelievably helpful I can't even explain. Thank you so so much. It's exactly the info I was looking for. I was already planning on getting an inverter. I didn't even know there was another option for charging my stuff. Aren't most the coolers and things able to be plugged into a regular plug also? Like off an inverter? And yeah I have absolutely no reason for a freezer. My freezer is completely empty other than a bag of frozen blueberries, so I don't need that but It looks like the fridges cost around $500? I really can't just run a $15 mini fridge from Craigslist? $500 is doable but that's a lot of art supplies and gas..
Caroline57
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dragonflyinthesky said:
Yeah I really don't wanna deal with ice haha I don't know how much it costs but I know I don't wanna buy it. And hopefully I can figure out what fridge to use by asking here!
Almost There
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Caroline57 said:
Most all of the compressor fridge/coolers absolutely can be run off 120V power when you're plugged in to shore power at home or at a campground. BUT, running a 12v appliance through an inverter is an absolute waste of energy. Even an efficient inverter wastes somewhere between 15% and 25% of the power on it's own uses. All an inverter does is take 12V and change it to 120 to power things that aren't designed to run off of 12V - like your Mac if you can't find a 12v cord for it.
So, you're taking a 12V appliance, powering through an inverter that changes 12V to 120V, and taking that power all from something that is already 12V to start with, now how silly would that be....
If you can find a 12v Compressor fridge that still in good running shape on Craigslist for less than a couple of hundred, buy 2, I want one as well...
Seriously, it may sound like a lot of art supplies and gas but think of it as being equal to a lot of ice purchases and the gas you'd use to go get it!
Keep in mind that if, in a few years, you decide you don't want to live this lifestyle any more, you can put it up on Craigslist yourself and get a whole lot more than the $15.00 for it...
Just for giggles I did the math. Figure a block of ice every 3 days at 3 bucks a block. That's 121 trips to a store per year and $365.00 in ice alone, never mind the gas, wear and tear on the vehicle AND the fact that you'd probably walk out of the store with at least 2 other items that you probably could live with out...
I figure it will pay for itself in way less than a year, probably more like 6 months. Looked at that way, $500 is a bargain!!
Caroline57
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Almost there- Haha thank you for the break down! And yeah I'll check out Craigslist for a fridge. It makes a bit of Sence I guess and I definitely am a part timer. I'm going to live in my van for a few years maybe 5 and travel a ton and make art and tan naked in the middle of the woods and embrace my inner flower child and then I'm going to get married and build a tiny house with my husband and raise vegan babies in the middle of the Hawaiian jungle. So resale value is good to consider. I'd like the idea of passing down my van to someone in 5 years but I'd have to be a girl.. My taste is a bit colorful. And not many girls wanna travel by themselves in a van. And there are probably even less who want to in a van with butterflies painted on it. It would take a special person.
highdesertranger
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hahaha " tan naked in the middle of the woods" got GPS coordinates. just kidding. highdesertranger
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I've been doing this a long time, and I've talked to thousands of vandwellers, even young girls just like you. Here are my recommendations:
1) 200-240 watt solar panel. It will almost certainly meet all your needs year around. If the voltage on that used one is right, I'g go buy it right now!
2) Whytner 45 quart 12 volt compressor fridge.
3) a beautiful quilt or blanket that makes your heart sing.
Get everything installed, fold up the blanket so it drapes over the fridge, and let your heart sing!
There are many details that go along with making this all happen, but that's what they are, just details. Once you know where you're going, you just put one foot in front of the other and it happens.
Bob
1) 200-240 watt solar panel. It will almost certainly meet all your needs year around. If the voltage on that used one is right, I'g go buy it right now!
2) Whytner 45 quart 12 volt compressor fridge.
3) a beautiful quilt or blanket that makes your heart sing.
Get everything installed, fold up the blanket so it drapes over the fridge, and let your heart sing!
There are many details that go along with making this all happen, but that's what they are, just details. Once you know where you're going, you just put one foot in front of the other and it happens.
Bob
Caroline57 said:
If you're spending much time in town, away from your van, those compressor style pretty ice chests can attract the attention of thieves. Nobody gives a second glance at an ice chest.
I knew a lady that thought somebody may have followed her from a grocery store, and seen her loading an expensive cooler in the parking lot. At her next stop, her van was broken into and that cooler and many other valuables were stolen.
No matter what you do, try to make sure that nothing of perceived value is within view like when when you're loading in supplies, or whenever you are parked and away from your van. Kind of the "Out of sight, out of mind" thing. There's a lot of desperate people out here that won't bat an eye at stealing anything they can get their hands on.
When shopping, or away from the van, I try to make sure nothing other than maybe clothes are visible to anybody snooping around. I am also very vigilant of anyone I think might be following me from such places.
Caroline57 said:
One thing to remember is that any 120v appliance is going to use 10x the amps stated at 12v. Due to inverter losses, some people say to multiply the number by 12-15x instead of 10.
I have no personal experience with the dorm fridges, but some people have said they don't hold up well in a moving vehicle. That being said, under $50 every couple of years, compared to $500+ every 4-5 years still sounds like a better deal to me.
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