Lets talk about who "deserves" help

[Queen]

Lots of comments about people who don't deserve help, the typical list here on CRVL is the homeless who panhandle, able bodied people who don't work or don't work enough, anyone with money regardless of how much they give to help others, "bums", and people who say they are veterans but don't have their ID and DD214 stapled to the sign.

Obviously, from my previous posts, most people know my view on "deserve", it is not up to me to judge. I don't know their story or their history, I just know they're asking for help so I do when I can.  

What I don't understand about the judging of others on this site is it's antithetical to the entire meaning in the site as I understand it.  The idea is to break free of those societal constraints, to live a more open and genuine life, to not buy into the work til you die philosophy.  Maybe it's only some of the armchair folks (of which I am one) who post who still live within the constraints?  I don't know, I just know that for me, it's very disheartening, why do we have to decide who has suffered enough to be willing to help them?  Even if you don't want to help, at least don't degrade or humiliate, there's enough of that going on in the world, we surely don't need to add more to the pile.

Is a little kindness and maybe a touch of empathy too much to expect?

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

"Judge not lest ye be judged"  may be the ideal, but it's not something that most of us are capable of achieving.  And by raising the issue, aren't you in fact being judgemental about them?

I occasionally see posts that contain something that bothers me.  I've learned to simply ignore those posts and not respond to them.

 

[jonsun]

I support a basic welfare state. I don't really support pan handling especially when I know they can and are getting help from my tax dollars. I also support and have and are willing to help out at food shelters and food not bombs programs.

I don't like the rich exploiting the poor and I dont like the poor exploiting a working person or the foolish heart. be fair and decent.

broke down? absolutely
old? absolutely
travelling across country by gas jugging? go to hell

 

[Queen]

I almost didn't write the post because it felt judge-y to me, and like you (Optimistic Paranoid) I tend to ignore those posts. But they seem to be happening more and more, and so many of the old fulltimers don't come here anymore, I'm curious if the negative vibe is the reason why? I know after reading a post yesterday from someone who wanted to put a sign in their truck saying "get a job" directed at panhandlers, I almost logged off and walked away. One of the things I value so much about this place has always been the more chill vibe, the more "accepting of the different" tone. That really seems to be going away, along with some very cool people.

 

[GotSmart]

Threads on this subject have become closed because it caused angry feelings.  

I have my opinions on this subject ~~~ But ~~~ I am not going there.

 

[wagoneer]

with the homeless population here I got numb to the constant begging, then one day I stopped and talked with the person had a very informative conversation and that made me realize
a lot of these so called beggars are in fact lonely/a bit lost and reaching out she forgot all about the money as we parted ways.

 

[Queen]

The powers that be can close anything they wish, no hard feelings from me, it's their playground. I just hang out in their sandbox and good around some each day.

One thing I truly wish many people could grasp, as I've said here before, your personal experience is not universal. Everyone has their own path to walk, and simply because yours is different, does not mean it applies to anyone else. If you have enough to eat, a roof of any sort over your head, friends/family, and happiness... you won at life, celebrate that, be happy. But maybe try to understand that not everyone did, and there's really no need to assume superiority or assign blame

 

[ArtW]

I've started moderating myself, too, but I'll say this

helping others is a kindness you perform, not an obligation, and saying another 'deserves' my help is like saying i owe them
Mostly I don't
I wouldn't yell at someone for asking, or say mean things to them, my response if I don't want to give is generally, "sorry, can't help you"
Someone who bangs on my door might get an earfull, though, that's rude as hell

 

[Almost There]

helping others is a kindness you perform, not an obligation, and saying another 'deserves' my help is like saying i owe them

^^^^^ This!!

Thank you for articulating what I couldn't figure out how to say.

 

[LeeRevell]

It is Human nature to gripe and rant, and we see things occurring around us again and again. So, we gripe. Understandable. Especially when one considers he/she is "part of the tribe".

 

[Queen]

I've started moderating myself, too, but I'll say this

helping others is a kindness you perform, not an obligation, and saying another 'deserves' my help is like saying i owe them
Mostly I don't
I wouldn't yell at someone for asking, or say mean things to them, my response if I don't want to give is generally, "sorry, can't help you"
Someone who bangs on my door might get an earfull, though, that's rude as hell

Agree 100%, attaching a value judgement to who might be worthy of help is the issue.

 

[IanC]

My neighbors where I lived in Mass could be called the classic case of people using every system. It was the mother and father, the old dad (who lived in the basement), a son with brain damage, 3 teenage daughter (two with babies). I got along well with them, but often wondered about all the checks that were coming into that house. When the old man died and the girls left home, the income dried up and Alvin and his wife were in a tent by the river. Of course, there as a lot of addiction in the house too.

But, in thinking about it, I realized that these were people with very low I.Q. We tend to judge people on their intelligence as though it is something they did themselves - an achievement, and that recognizing low I.Q is a put down. The FACT is that people with an I.Q. of 75 or below are eligible for a variety of services, but what about those with 80, 90, 100 who are trying to navigate a world that was designed by people of high intelligence. What does someone do who has difficulty even setting an alarm clock to get up in the morning? What do they do when so much, now days require computer literacy? I don't think of myself as stupid, but my mind literally goes blank when reading a legalese form or intricate instructions - something in my brain just isn't there. I don't even try and read an electric bill (when I had one) - I just pay the bottom line. So, what do those other folks do?

There was a time when a guy who wasn't a brainiac, could get a job at the plant, pick up his pay envelope on Friday, go, in person to pay his various bills and provide for his family. There wasn't a 100 page employee handbook or a stack of HR forms to fill out, or a mailbox full of paperwork to understand. Putting aside that there are few of those 'plant' jobs anymore anyway, is there a point where life becomes so complicated for some people that they just give up?

Back on the homeless front. Do the "buddy, get a job" people believe that there are employers lining up to hire toothless old men with a lifetime of alcohol under their belts? When fresh faced college grads can't get jobs, do they think those guys have a chance? And, what are the prospects for someone released from prison with a felony record, just the clothes on their back and not a dime to their name? How does one start a life over from complete scratch?

When I was in AA, I heard hundreds and hundreds of stories of the struggles people had to pick themselves up from the depths they had fallen. It is a lot harder task than for those who came from good homes with parents interested in education, finished college and followed the prescribed path to a secure life. Personally, I have been on my own since I left home the week after my 17th birthday. Fortunately I have never had to ask for government or family assistance, but my life has been one of stumbling around, trying to find a path (God, if I were to write out a list of the things I've done I wouldn't believe it myself.), many times been a hairs breath from homelessness. It was help that came from very kind people along the way that kept me off the streets.

 

[ArtW]

it simply isn't possible not to judge, we do it to every person we deal with, consciously or unconsciously
I try to make my value judgments based on the person's apparent character, no their net worth or appearance
Sometimes that's hard to do, but I think it's the right way to be

 

[Gunny]

I give monthly to St Judes and try to help those in actual need that are in my area of living. I probably am too judgmental about people panhandling with a "Vet" sign. I don't question them but I do take notice of the rank and awards they are wearing and make a judgment in my mind but remain silent.

The only people I give money to at street corners is when the Firefighters have the 'Fill The Boot' thing going on.

Telling someone to get a job does no good, it's best, in my view, to just walk or drive on by. The persistent ones will get an earful though.

Rob

 

[slynne]

I believe that every human being on this planet deserves to have their basic needs met. Everyone deserves food, shelter, clothing, security, basic healthcare etc. And here is where my views get controversial. I think even the worst among us deserve those things. Bad people deserve these things. Addicts deserve these things. Lazy able bodied people who won’t get a job (something much rarer than people think I imagine) Rich people do too although of course they seldom have trouble with it. I also believe that we all, as a society, *owe* it to others to make sure that they have their needs met and I think that the richest among us (which would include most Americans) owe more to society than the poorest. We are all in this together but alas, some people need a little nudging before they pay their share but that is true about most everything. I need some nudging to pay for certain things too. I don’t think this necessarily means that an individual owes anything to another individual though and generally find it preferable to have someone else be responsible for ensuring others have their needs met while I do nothing but pay my taxes. A system which seems to work well when our society becomes larger than the small tribal groups humans lived in for most of our history.

I admit that I don’t give panhandlers money. Mostly because I used to work closely with the homeless mentally ill population who make the majority of panhandlers in this area. The county where I live has a long history of taking care of the mentally ill well to the point where we suffer from a phenomenon where police departments in other counties put mentally ill homeless people on one way buses to here. I know that most of the people panhandling here already have their basic needs met and are panhandling for luxuries like cigarettes. There are also, every summer, a lot of kids who want to be trustafarians, in that they dress the same way and do the same things, but probably don’t have the trust fund and so choose to panhandle (or “spange” as they call it). I believe that panhandling should be considered protected speech and I firmly believe that people have a right to do it no matter how annoying I find it personally. I often stop to talk to the folks panhandling around and I admit that I have a few favorites who I might slip a $20 bill to once in a while, especially at Christmas, but generally I save my donations for the shelter and the food bank and even some churches because they provide meals.

One of the reasons I like this site and Bob’s videos though is that they show that a person can get their basic needs met for very little. Even with all of the resources around here, there are still people who choose not to accept help. There is unfortunately a lot of shame in it. I love it there is an option available for MOST people that will allow them to get their basic needs met without needing to rely on others too much although of course, that free camping on BLM land that is necessary is a form of subsidy, albeit a very small one.

 

[ArtW]

And that I totally disagree with
i work for the money I make, I shouldn't be forced at gunpoint to contribute it to those who can, but won't
if you make life too comfortable for those who won't do for themselves, you find more and more who decide not to do for themselves, and eventually, you have so many sitting idle while living off others, that the others are so heavily burdened, that the others give up and sit down, too
Of course society often collapses long before that

 

[jonsun]

Typical jobs suck. I hate every bit of it. I do it because I have to. And I barely make enough to live on while they are making fortunes 10000x over every year.

 

[Gary68]

judgement or triage ? they are very closely related words

one thing i like about me is that it take quite a lot for me to go to anger or hate,this doesn't seem to be the case for the general public

and one thing that makes me angry is people getting paid to help,thats not helping,it's getting paid
thats one thing i have a lot of respect for Bob Wells for,he simply helps

 

[SoulRaven]

No issue with who deserves and doesn't deserve. Also support that no one has an "obligation".

My "pet" peeve is when someone brings up that the money spent on pets could be spent on the "less fortunate". That will bring my opinion on the situation pretty quick. I have worked really hard for my money and went without things other people feel they couldn't live without, so..................

I avoid some threads where I feel it is appropriate to do so. I figure everyone has free will and if it doesn't step all over me, no problem.

 

[Gary68]

I give monthly to St Judes

a very worthy cause,you should be proud and plus they send you those little sticker with your name and address