Lets talk about who "deserves" help

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Every Road Leads Home said:
Years ago, I had a young guy ask me if he could "borrow" $10 or $20 to put some gas in his car, said he was almost home and he didn't think he'd make it with what he had left.  I told him I'll do you one better, pull in front of me and we'll fill your tank.  He hopped in his car and drove away!  Obviously didn't need gas money, however I was surprised he didn't want a free tank of gas, must have already been full.  Little shit!

Wild! I had the exact same thing happen to me. I didnt have any cash on me so when the nice man in the fancy SUV pulled up while I was pumping my gas with a story about losing his wallet and not having gas to get home, I offered to put gas in his tank using my credit card at the pump. He just drove off! Must be a common scam and it would have worked if I had had any cash on me!
 
slynne said:
 Must be a common scam and it would have worked if I had had any cash on me!
It is. :(
 They have become very creative in their methods to fleece the unsuspecting good Samaritan, and there seem to be a lot more of them than the people that really need the help. This is why I play twenty questions with them before they will get a dime from me.
 
I had one kid knock on my front door with a antifreez jug, asking for about 1/2 gallon to get to the gas station.  I grabbed my can, and asked where his car was.  One block away was his wife and newborn in a piece of junk.  He kept appologising ~~~ I took him to the gas station, and filled up my 2 1/2 gallon can.   We went back to their car, and I told him to keep the can.  I dropped a $20 in the diaper bag, and went home.  
Later that day he was back trying to give me back the can and money.  

I told him he now had to pass it along ~~~
 
this thread still going on?

you can give your money to whom ever,whenever you want,but if you ask me to give i will do some research
my money comes with a pretty good physical price,so i am picky about who it goes to and if they will value it as much as i do
 
bardo said:
broke down? absolutely
old? absolutely
travelling across country by gas jugging? go to hell

What's "gas jugging"? Please  :)

Jewellann
 
Gas jugging is begging with a gas jug and cardboard sign.  (Out of gas  Anything helps)
 
It is very difficult to give money away and have it do much good, whether you give it to a charity or directly to a person. I have been involved with several non-profits, few of them were willing to open their books and let me take a look.  I could write a book about it, actually...

Second, I would point out that you cannot say "society owes" without conscripting everybody to provide. You just can't. The idea that you could ration health care is no exception, as you're then conscripting healthy people who are able to pay to inferior care.

I am absolutely against government playing in this arena, because waste and fraud in government is far worse than in the charities I looked at. (That's another conversation entirely, which I would start with the government pretending to provide health care for our Vets. I'd best not get started...)

On a more personal level, I have offered to buy lunch or dinner for panhandlers many times, never had my offer accepted. I have passed fast food out my car window, only to see them in my rear view mirror throwing it in the weeds or feeding it to their dog as I pulled away from the light.

The one time I was able to make a direct measurable difference in a few people's lives was when, through circumstance, I was able to meet people in need who were already trying to do something to improve their own situation.

At that time, I owned a hearth store, which is a business that sells and installs fireplaces and stoves. Every fall, we would get calls from people very worried about heating their homes. These calls always came from women, and these women almost always turned out to be single moms who were struggling to make ends meet. They were hoping a wood stove would be a cheap way to heat, and they were universally disappointed to find out how much they cost and how much firewood sold for.

After the first busy season, I kept an eye out for used wood stoves that were post-1986 EPA approved, which they had to be to be used in the Denver metro area. Sometimes a customer would give mue a used take-out, we found a couple on craigslist. From the second year on, we gave away a stove, brand new chimney pipe and labor to install to one or two people per year who were in obvious need. I was able to connect most of those folks with people in the tree business who were frequently paying to dump wood in a landfill.

Note that none of them were standing on a street corner holding a sign that said "need a way to heat my house this winter", either. They all had a job, often two, yet they found a way to make calls during business hours in a sincere effort to solve their own problems.

It was very satisfying to be able to do that!
 
GotSmart said:
Gas jugging is begging with a gas jug and cardboard sign.  (Out of gas  Anything helps)

LOL, In Erenberg, at the traffic circle there was an old guy with a can, an old truck with the hood open. I'd already gotten off the circle but pulled over and lugged a 5 gallon can I had back to him.  He had an almost look of horror. When I was pouring gas into his can he said "don't give me TOO much"
Poor bastard was stuck with a3/4 full can of gas - probably dumped it.  Bur WTF, I'm a sucker.
 
You deserve what you have earned.
Anything else is charity.
If coercion is involved, it is theft.

 -- Spiff
 
Every Road Leads Home said:
Well i'm a Man so it's hard to play the woman card, you decided to take it there not me.  However, that was just an example.  Would you feel better if I used a disabled man going homeless, or a wounded war vet going hungry, or a mentally disabled man not getting the right meds, or just simply someone down on their luck for any number of reasons.....job moved overseas, company out of business, etc etc as you once were as an example?

You don't have to be a woman to play the woman card, any more than you have to be any sort of victim to play the victim card, which any of those examples are, you just have to be willing to use those people as a sheild for your arguments. It's a method of shutting down discussion by shaming the other person for their views
You make your argument
I make my argument
you say, basically, 'what about the (insert victim class person here)
the choice of a single mom fleeing an abusive man is perhaps the single most sympathetic figure in current culture, so a good choice here
The idea is 'then you're saying you don't care about or want to help these people' and the implication is 'you're a heartless b***ard'
The idea of course is simply to shut the other viewpoint down
I will call this behavior out for what it is, shutting down discourse

I will echo Spaceman Spiff's post here, because that is the truth
 
I'm not shaming anybody for their views. Just stating the reasons I believe people deserve help, even went futher than just giving the extreme examples to include anyone and everyone just down on their luck.

Though I admit, your stance confuses me the most as you were someone who needed and used assistance, now that you no longer need it, you are ok with everyone else figuring it out on their own?

If an individual doesn't want to help personally, I fully support that. It's their money and I honestly wouldn't think any less of anyone for choosing to do so.

But going back to the original question "Who deserves help?" I think everyone does, Black, white, man, woman, gay, straight, I don't care I don't have a particular card to play, other than the human card, if a human is down and needs help I think they deserve to be helped. I don't believe one person should suffer because another abuses the system.

I suffered in pain for years because I couldn't get the necessary pain meds because of how many abuse them. And that's not fair. So I wouldn't wish it upon anyone else for any reason. And I'm not talking some superficial pain, I could show you pictures that could make a Dr cringe. But because of the opiod crisis, I got to suffer for other's abuse.
 
If you lock a bear up in a zoo and only feed him if he waves to tourists, should he only get what he earned?
 
My .02...


One of the very few things I agree with republicans on is the notion of personal responsibility.
However,
I believe it all stems from low self esteem and often their childhood has alot to with it. Personally I'd rather have my taxes raised to make sure the elderly, infirm and children are cared for.
 
bardo said:
If you lock a bear up in a zoo and only feed him if he waves to tourists, should he only get what he earned?

I think you'd run out of food, because that bear would be waving 24/7 once he figured it out.
 
Somebody once said no matter how much of your money that you give away, you are not going to make everybody wealthy.

If you help people who don't want your help, you are actually forcing your will on them.

Years back there was an urban development program, (I think they wanted to put in a freeway), they built a brand new modern apartment building so that they could move people in and level the ghetto that they were in. Within something like two years they had to condemn the new apartments. The people turned it into a ghetto.

Providing for people may be a fine thing, but without them wanting to change, you may be throwing good money after bad. Every National Park has signs, please do not feed the animals, it makes them lazy. Quite a balancing act between helping and enabling.
 
So, my question has been answered, thanks to all who participated.

Some people try not to place a value judgement on someone asking for help. Others feel it's perfectly acceptable to decide who deserves help and who does not.

I'll see if a mod will close this now.
 
There is a reason the "system" was set up to decide who is entitled to "help" and who isn't. I think that was always considered "acceptable" and with the added value of charitable agencies out there, it appears to be working for most. I know some charitable agencies have guidelines or requirements also. I also know that some do not want to work with that system, I have family like that.

It is about "choice". And I see that judgement comes from both sides in this thread.

Before you judge me, if you haven't walked a mile in my shoes................
 
If you are going to say that coercion = theft. Just remember that no one is using coercion to force anyone to pay taxes. You do not have to pay taxes if you don't want to. There are many ways to avoid it actually although most people find they like the benefits that come with the taxation and are unwilling to take the steps necessary to avoid it.
 
slynne said:
If you are going to say that coercion = theft. Just remember that no one is using coercion to force anyone to pay taxes. You do not have to pay taxes if you don't want to.

If you genuinely believe that paying taxes is "voluntary", by all means stop doing it for a awhile and let us all know how that works out for you.
 
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