Lets talk about who "deserves" help

[ArtW]

Yup, that's what I was talking about, making able bodied people do something in return for their benefits
Seems it benefits those able bodied people, too

 

[abnorm]

"".......... Individuals who saved their whole life are losing their entire savings to paying for end of life healthcare, wiping out inheritances,..............."" AMEN

 

[OutdoorFT]

I never hand out any money or food. The ones here use dogs to try to get more money/food.

If you cant feed yourself, no need to have a pet you cannot feed. Most of the ones I see are my age and in much better shape. There are plenty of jobs locally. Since I am not their financial advisor, I keep my comments to myself.

And if they are truly a veteran, they have preferance over a regular citizen in a lot of jobs.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

I believe that every human being on this planet deserves to have their basic needs met. Everyone deserves food, shelter, clothing, security, basic healthcare etc.

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, slynne, but you were the most outspoken about this.

Just how far does society have a right to take this?

If basic healthcare is a right, and there aren't enough doctors and nurses, should society force them to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week? If not, what happens to the people who couldn't be seen during a 40 or 50 hour work week?

If enough people don't voluntarily work in nursing homes, should we FORCE people to do so?  Don't the old folks have a RIGHT to the care?

If everyone has the right to enough food, does that mean society has the right to just take it from farmers?  No?  We have to pay the farmers?  Pay them with what?  Money we've taken from other people who have it?  How is that different than just taking the food directly from the farmers?  And what if the farmers think the food is worth more than we're willing to give them?

The socialist regime in Venezuela has screwed things up so badly that a once prosperous country is now on the verge of starvation.  Their answer is to FORCE people to go out and work in the fields.  I'm not making this up, that's from Amnesty International.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/n...-regime-effectively-amounts-to-forced-labour/

 

[Wabbit]

I am wondering who doesn't deserve help? If its a human being and you're comfortable helping them, then help. If someone disagrees with you helping another human being, I would be interested in their motives. I was told a lot growing up, "If you can't say something constructive..."you know the rest. Why do people get so bent out of shape over human beings receiving help but have no problem with Fortune 500 companies receiving welfare(subsidies). When I ask someone who is usually very vocal about "poor" people receiving welfare, why they don't have a fit over Fortune 500 companies receiving welfare, they usually get a blank vacant look and mumble, "Its not the same thing". I recognize this as indoctrination and some ignorance. No idea on real numbers, but 100 billion in corporate welfare is easily imaginable and prob low by about 400 million.

We, the people, are getting played. Corporations have taken over pretty much everything and have convinced us that we are the problem, not them. We are infighting while they are cashing in. That's a fact.

 

[Bast]

There are one and a half million Americans living on $2,00 a day or less. Many of them children. In the richest country on earth this is in my opinion an utter disgrace.


https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...prefix=2.00+a+day,aps,1900&crid=3DJOR4AM81MSQ

 

[cyndi]

Deserve was the wrong choice of words for my post in the other thread. Criteria would have been a better choice.

I don't have a lot of liquid cash. If I'm going to help someone I want it to be someone that needs it and will make the best use of it.

GoFundMe is out of control.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Playing the woman card, nice, let's make Art a heartless woman hater, emotional argument at it's best.

Well i'm a Man so it's hard to play the woman card, you decided to take it there not me.  However, that was just an example.  Would you feel better if I used a disabled man going homeless, or a wounded war vet going hungry, or a mentally disabled man not getting the right meds, or just simply someone down on their luck for any number of reasons.....job moved overseas, company out of business, etc etc as you once were as an example?

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

Deserve was the wrong choice of words for my post in the other thread. Criteria would have been a better choice.

I don't have a lot of liquid cash. If I'm going to help someone I want it to be someone that needs it and will make the best use of it.

GoFundMe is out of control.

I agree on the GoFundMe,  I cringe when I see some of the people post their Gofundme's on facebook and the reasons they need it.  

I donate money every year to various causes and i'm on disability myself.  However, I know I have it better than a lot of others and try and help a little when I can.  I donated $500 this past Christmas buying toys for kids in Foster Care.  Massachusett's DCF asks for help every year and they will give you a list of kids and their Christmas lists.  You shop for what they ask for and it get's delivered directly to their foster home.  So 100% of my $500 goes directly to the kids.  It's one of my most rewarding things I've ever done.  Plan on doing it every year now.  

I always try to donate to causes where 100% or very close to it reaches the intended recipients.  People don't realize that lots of charities have such high operating costs, that very little reaches it's intended purpose.

 

[Wabbit]

Yeah, 80%+ for administrative cost for a charity is fraud in my book. Stuffit , more than 20% administrative cost is fraud if you're a legit charity. I'm sure there's an exception there, but in general.

 

[Gunny]

Seems to fit.

Rob.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...rvice-members-struggle-to-feed-their-families

 

[DannyB1954]

I made a post about wanting to put a sign in my truck "get a job", and I got some flack about it. Let me explain. Where I live in Pahrump Nv. we get a lot of tourists passing through and we have professional beggars that take full advantage of that. The same people every day.

The cost of living here is very low, people can survive on money from social services quite well. A lot of people move here because of that. Social Security checks can go a long way. We have three food banks that have more food than they can give away. I personally know people who sell their food stamp vouchers for cash because they already get food for free. This is really fraud, (both on the part of the buyer and seller), So is collecting cash "under the table" by begging while being supported by society. I have seen the wad of cash the one guy at the supermarket had, ( he was inside for a change buying something), I find it very unlikely he is claiming his begging income.

I give every month to support the needy, (both here and abroad). Where my sympathies lie is more with the working poor. People who are putting out an effort to contribute to society but can't seem to catch a brake. I particularly take note when someone is in this position but still uses their time and limited money to help others.

My funds are not unlimited, so I have choices to make. Do I help the people who do not want a job because it will interfere with their "benefits", Or do I help the people who are putting out an effort, (not only for themselves but also to help others)? When I was younger, there were people who gave me a hand when I was struggling with difficult situations, (worked in a feast or famine industry, was laid off and later recalled 4 times just by one company). They didn't give me a hand because I had a magic marker and a piece of cardboard. I was making an effort. So I guess it all comes down to past personal experiences. I don't trust a panhandler as much as I do someone who is making an effort.

 

[jimindenver]

I can't answer the question. I was taught to help who you could, when and however you could because you just never know when it may be you in need. I have been fortunate enough to be able to help others along the way and even more fortunate to have others help me when that time came too. I believe it falls in the concept of treat others as you wish to be treated.

 

[Blanch]

I have a very good friend who is getting treatment for a nasty cancer. She very well may not make it. My children's father had lung cancer and no insurance, he got no treatment ( the ER will diagnose an illness but if it is cancer they don't treat it). He didn't die from the cancer, as he was wasting away and unable to breath he took a short cut and hung himself.

Does my friend deserve treatment and my children's father didn't?

I think we are all entitled to compassion and love. If you can't muster up the compassion and love someone needs then move along and hopefully someone else will.

They both deserved help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GotSmart]

. I personally know people who sell their food stamp vouchers for cash because they already get food for free. 

I was under the impression that all food stamps are now on card, (SNAP) so no more paper.  

Fraud is around 1%.  

So 99% are supposed to starve because of the one percenters?  Why is that seem political?

 

[DannyB1954]

I was under the impression that all food stamps are now on card, (SNAP) so no more paper.  

Fraud is around 1%.  

So 99% are supposed to starve because of the one percenters?  Why is that seem political?

Yep. At the check out counter, the clerk does not check the card against an ID. Even if they did, the card holder would only have to go with. 

Nobody need starve in the USA. What I am saying is I have to decide who I am going to help, The fat guy who stands at the driveway of the supermarket every day, (for the last 6 years that I know of),  with a sign that says he is hungry, or someone who I know is putting out an effort. I can enable people to keep doing what they are doing, (standing on a corner begging), but that helps neither of us long term. I am one of those who think welfare should require some sort of work if physically possible. Fewer people would be interested.

 

[Ballenxj]

 What I am saying is I have to decide who I am going to help,

I agree! I had a panhandler hit me up in a laundromat, and I asked him why I should give him any money? He answered that because he only got $xxxx from social security. I said what? you are bringing in more than I am, so please explain to me once again why I should give you anything? He mumbled something about giving his money to someone else, but had realized at that point he was not getting anything from me, so walked away. If somebody hits me up for money, I always ask them why.
Now another guy hit me up while I was visiting with my son and grandson at a Wendy's. I asked him the same question before I ran him off. He explained that he was new in town and knew nobody. His son desperately needed some sort of medicine, and he was willing to follow me to where I lived and shovel dog poo if needed. I could sense that he was both genuinely serious and desperate, so I gave him $20. He wanted to get may address so he could send the money to me when he got it, and I told him to not worry about it, just pay it forward someday.
I have things I look for when a panhandler approaches me, and the first thing I look at is their clothing. If their clothing is designer brand that I cannot afford myself, I will then again ask why they think I should give them money?
In my minds eye, scammers are taking believability from those that honestly need the help, and therefore get zero respect from me.

 

[DannyB1954]

I usually ask them do you really want me to give you the money that I worked for, so that you will not have to work?
It is no longer spare change. Some think you should fill their gas can.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

 Some think you should fill their gas can.

Years ago, I had a young guy ask me if he could "borrow" $10 or $20 to put some gas in his car, said he was almost home and he didn't think he'd make it with what he had left.  I told him I'll do you one better, pull in front of me and we'll fill your tank.  He hopped in his car and drove away!  Obviously didn't need gas money, however I was surprised he didn't want a free tank of gas, must have already been full.  Little shit!

 

[slynne]

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, slynne, but you were the most outspoken about this.

Just how far does society have a right to take this?

If basic healthcare is a right, and there aren't enough doctors and nurses, should society force them to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week? If not, what happens to the people who couldn't be seen during a 40 or 50 hour work week?

No, no one should be forced to work. If there are not enough doctors and nurses, then some form of rationing must occur. There are many ways to do this but the current capitalistic model where some people get access at the expense of those too poor to afford it doesnt seem better than other models to me. To clarify, I guess I shouldn't have said that healthcare is a right but rather that access to healthcare should be a right.  I think Medicare provides good basic healthcare and should be extended to everyone. If there is a shortage of medical professionals, everyone faces the shortage together with the obvious solution being to lower barriers to entry into those jobs.

If enough people don't voluntarily work in nursing homes, should we FORCE people to do so?  Don't the old folks have a RIGHT to the care?

Again, slavery is not the answer. If not enough people want to work in nursing homes, society has an obligation to provide incentives to those who will although fortunately for us as a society, technology may greatly reduce the need for assisted living and likely will greatly reduce the number of staff needed to run them. I think society owes it to elders to provide care for them but even if I didn't, I cant imagine anything worse than not caring for people. I am curious about what you think should happen to an impoverished person in need of nursing home care if we refuse to offer the proper incentives for staff in such facilities.

If everyone has the right to enough food, does that mean society has the right to just take it from farmers?  No?  We have to pay the farmers?  Pay them with what?  Money we've taken from other people who have it?  How is that different than just taking the food directly from the farmers?  And what if the farmers think the food is worth more than we're willing to give them?

No, society does not have a right to just take food from farmers except as a form of taxation but it is much more practical to have farmers pay their taxes in some kind of currency. There is no reason why farmers must bear a greater burden in terms of feeding people than anyone else  in society. Food for the poor is a pretty small part of the food market as a whole so when purchasing food for the poor, society can be expected to pay the going market rate. I am not sure I understand your question about how buying food with tax money is different from just directly seizing the food. Do you want me to explain the difference between taxation and theft?

The socialist regime in Venezuela has screwed things up so badly that a once prosperous country is now on the verge of starvation.  Their answer is to FORCE people to go out and work in the fields.  I'm not making this up, that's from Amnesty International.

Yeah things are bad in Venezuela for sure. Totalitarianism of the sort where they essentially resort to slavery is awful regardless of if the regime is on the left or the right. I am going to shut up now because I am dangerously close to going on a rant about quantitative easing that will make everyone fall asleep. I will just say that socialism is the least of Venezuela's troubles.