How soon will electric or hybrid vans/RVs be common?

[Gr8ful]

How are EVs going to help our environment? The electric used to charge them are made from nat gas or coal. Solar panels & li-ion batteries are full of toxins. Plastic can be recycled into diesel even at home. Wind farms lose money & are a huge waste & kill wildlife. Look at the Olympics in china, runners couldn't see & china shut down mfg. It won't work unless the whole world makes every country clean. IMHO I want a clean earth but we're just not prepared yet.
India & China are building coal powered power plants at record paces with no scrubbers like ours have & buying US coal & mines then trucking it to ports then shipping to china. I've owned several diesel VW Rabbits all got 55 mpg & Geo Metro's that got 50 mpg. Hybrids don't really get that mileage. We don't have enough electric capacity now.

https://energyandcleanair.org/record-rise-in-chinas-coal-production-and-imports/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roslyn...ves-shortages-not--railroads/?sh=70d9de8a1168

 

[bullfrog !]

Granted technology needs to catch up but pollution is causing major problems. The sooner the problems they cause get attention the sooner solutions will be found. Biggest problem in my opinion is the lack of urgency. If you lived on one of the islands that being just above sea level that will soon flood because warming caused by pollution is a real problem it might get your attention, if you are living in a van in the mountains not so much. As things have gotten worse now forest fires and weather changes are beginning to get people’s attention even those living in a van in the mountains. It is sad it had to get to this point but in my opinion there will be wars fought and lives lost over the survival of advanced nations lifestyles. Probably doing more harm to the environment. Reckon all the bombs and fires in Ukrain and the Gaza Strip are the only thing keeping people up at night worried about the pollution they cause not really. Mankind’s time is limited in my opinion. Sooner people realize these problems cost lives and livelihoods the better. Sadly at this point radical changes are necessary to prevent unbearable future living conditions. Believe it or not in my opinion these are the good old days and the longer we keep living like this the shorter the lifespan of humanity will be. No wonder the rich keep wanting to find another planet to pollute!

 

[RonDean]

How are EVs going to help our environment? The electric used to charge them are made from nat gas or coal. Solar panels & li-ion batteries are full of toxins. Plastic can be recycled into diesel even at home. Wind farms lose money & are a huge waste & kill wildlife. Look at the Olympics in china, runners couldn't see & china shut down mfg. It won't work unless the whole world makes every country clean. IMHO I want a clean earth but we're just not prepared yet.
India & China are building coal powered power plants at record paces with no scrubbers like ours have & buying US coal & mines then trucking it to ports then shipping to china. I've owned several diesel VW Rabbits all got 55 mpg & Geo Metro's that got 50 mpg. Hybrids don't really get that mileage. We don't have enough electric capacity now.

https://energyandcleanair.org/record-rise-in-chinas-coal-production-and-imports/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roslyn...ves-shortages-not--railroads/?sh=70d9de8a1168

I think you are buying into the story the oil producers and IC auto makers want us to believe. As long as they can continue making a profit, they would like to slow down change. Yes, Fossil fuels—including coal, oil, and natural gas are currently supplying about 80 percent of the world's energy. But that is rapidly changing. In 2019, U.S. annual energy consumption from renewable sources exceeded coal consumption for the first time since before 1885...This outcome mainly reflects the continued decline in the amount of coal used for electricity generation over the past decade as well as growth in renewable energy, mostly from wind and solar. (https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=43895#)

As Bullfrog! pointed out, technology still needs to supply more solutions. But the global community is making huge strides. In 2022 the EU had 21.6% of new car registrations being electric vehicles. In Asia, sales of EVs are expected to grow from 4% of total car sales in 2020 to 70% by 2040, with China as the main market... The trends are clear, even if we still have a long way to go. The sooner folks like us are willing to accept a need to change, the sooner it will happen.

Nor is this just about global warming, though that is a big problem. There is also the impact of pollution on our individual health. For years the oil companies also denied the harm caused by leaded gasoline. We now know that this childhood lead exposure cost America an estimated 824 million IQ points, or 2.6 points per person on average. 2 to 3 point IQ difference may be a minimal change for many people, but if... "an individual is on the lower side of IQ distribution. Then.. a couple points can mean a lot,”.. (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...blunted-iq-half-us-population-study-rcna19028) We may have to wait for future years and more studies to learn the total impact of burning fossil fuel, but I think we already know enough to realize a need for change.

 

[user 22017]

India & China are building coal powered power plants at record paces with no scrubbers like ours have & buying US coal & mines then trucking it to ports then shipping to china. I've owned several diesel VW Rabbits all got 55 mpg & Geo Metro's that got 50 mpg. Hybrids don't really get that mileage. We don't have enough electric capacity now.

Since we are supposedly weaning ourselves off coal, why does our government allow coal to be sold for fuel?

 

[user 22017]

I think you are buying into the story the oil producers and IC auto makers want us to believe. As long as they can continue making a profit, they would like to slow down change.

We need to stop shopping so much. Consumerism and capitalism play a huge role in climate change.

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2020/12/16/buying-stuff-drives-climate-change/


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/consumerism-earth-suffers
Rich countries, including the United States, Canada, Japan and much of western Europe, account for just 12 percent of the global population today but are responsible for 50 percent of all the planet-warming greenhouse gases released from fossil fuels and industry over the past 170 years.~ New York Times

 

[Happy Camper]

So China is building coal power plants at a record pace. They have massive pollution issues. But it's my fault they don't do better because I bought a widget made there. Got it.

Using that logic, if China had cleaner power and industry rules in place, that 50% quoted above might be 35%~.

I do buy products made in China as we all do at times. Their lack of proper pollution controls doesn't fall squarely on my shoulders no matter how they work the data. That being said, given a comparable choice at a comparable price, I would buy from elsewhere if there was a cleaner option.

 

[Frood]

I'm not going to poo in the street in front of my house just because that's what my neighbor is doing.

While I may not be removing all of the poo from the streets I'm also not going out of my
way to add to it. And I laud those who DO try to clean it up.

 

[Happy Camper]

I'm not going to poo in the street in front of my house just because that's what my neighbor is doing.

While I may not be removing all of the poo from the streets I'm also not going out of my
way to add to it. And I laud those who DO try to clean it up.

I agree.

I'm just not here to give everything I have because others don't care. And right now, I'm paying entirely too much due to the mad rush for America to go completely Green yesterday. There a way to do it that doesn't take so much from us.

I'd like to see those the that insist my gas car is murdering the planet to go to China and other countries and force them to comply instead of constantly reaching into my pocket. Then using that money to fly to across the world in a fossil fuel jet to the next climate crisis conference.

I want a clean earth, and we're all doing better overall. Even China and other polluting countries are doing certain things, if not nearly enough. But my wallet isn't large enough to pay for their inaction.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^A lot of your tax dollars are already going to disaster funding because we didn’t do much earlier. Forest fires, flooding, drought and all the crop losses due to it not to mention the medical problems caused by it. We are probably spending more just dealing with problems we should have dealt with long ago. Sooner they get busy fixing things the better in my opinion. Meanwhile we just keep wasting our money trying to maintain the status quo instead of solving the problems.

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

Since we are supposedly weaning ourselves off coal, why does our government allow coal to be sold for fuel?

We aren't deliberately weaning ourselves off coal. It's just that since fracking began natural gas is so much cheaper than coal, and it is relatively easy to convert a coal power plant to gas, that demand for coal has collapsed.

 

[thebarefootbadger]

What it comes down to for me is compromise. I'd like to do everything reasonable practical to reduce my footprint. But tanking my ability to be healthy and safe in a world more than happy to force me to compete and lose by sucking every last dollar out of my wallet and leaving me for dead isn't "reasonably practical" as far as I'm concerned. So ... I drive a hybrid van. I walk if I can walk. I recycle. I don't invest in companies I consider to be egregiously worse than their competitors even if the return is a little better. And yeah. I drive. I suck up oxygen and spit out CO2. I eat meat. We all draw our lines somewhere.

 

[Happy Camper]

^^^A lot of your tax dollars are already going to disaster funding because we didn’t do much earlier. Forest fires, flooding, drought and all the crop losses due to it not to mention the medical problems caused by it. We are probably spending more just dealing with problems we should have dealt with long ago. Sooner they get busy fixing things the better in my opinion. Meanwhile we just keep wasting our money trying to maintain the status quo instead of solving the problems.

That's what happens when people change from buying quality, maintaining and fixing it when it breaks to buying cheap and replacing when you want.

The current population can't quite understand why we need to do certain things that don't seem like now issues.

Spend money clearing out some of the trees so they aren't as dense and create a fire hazard? That costs money and will disrupt the spotted horned ant frog. Nevermind that failing to do so means that years go by and then we get massive fires. But yeah it's climate change. Climate of the mind.

 

[user 22017]

We aren't deliberately weaning ourselves off coal. It's just that since fracking began natural gas is so much cheaper than coal, and it is relatively easy to convert a coal power plant to gas, that demand for coal has collapsed.

We are deliberately weaning ourselves off coal and gas. That is the plan for the world. Only vested interests are thwarting the process.
I was replying to the posts about how China is importing massive amounts of coal... much from the U.S., iirc

Edit: typo

 

[user 22017]

Spend money clearing out some of the trees so they aren't as dense and create a fire hazard? That costs money and will disrupt the spotted horned ant frog. Nevermind that failing to do so means that years go by and then we get massive fires. But yeah it's climate change. Climate of the mind.

Stop building houses in forests then expect taxpayers to save your house. Risking the lives of firefighters. Stop expanding cities into forested areas (and deserts).

 

[Happy Camper]

Stop building houses in forests then expect taxpayers to save your house. Risking the lives of firefighters. Stop expanding cities into forested areas (and deserts).

If they had been able to clear up the density line they had for centuries past, those amazingly large fires wouldn't have been amazingly large. Even the Indians were trending the forests before we got here.

Don't blame the house for being in the middle of a problem we didn't continue to mitigate.

 

[Happy Camper]

If they had been able to clear up the density like they had for centuries past, those amazingly large fires wouldn't have been amazingly large. Even the Indians were tending the forests before we got here.

Don't blame the house for being in the middle of a problem we didn't continue to mitigate.

Couldn't edit because I took to much time.

Autocorrect continues to demonstrate it's dominance over my swiping skills on my phone keyboard.

 

[RonDean]

I often see references that include "force me or force them" and I don't think that is what any of us are saying. We all make our own choices and I rather like it that way. And I am not offended if I am willing to make more changes than my neighbor. But, I think the day will come when more force will be applied. That is when our actions or lack of them have caused more natural disasters and health problems than our society can withstand. I am hoping our global society does the right thing before that happens.

 

[user 22017]

I often see references that include "force me or force them" and I don't think that is what any of us are saying. We all make our own choices and I rather like it that way. And I am not offended if I am willing to make more changes than my neighbor. But, I think the day will come when more force will be applied. That is when our actions or lack of them have caused more natural disasters and health problems than our society can withstand. I am hoping our global society does the right thing before that happens.

More force does have to be applied, but the internet (mostly via memes) have too many thinking changes = conspiracies. There are conspiracies, but people need to learn how to research to find out which are real and which are click bait.

 

[BlueMarkOhio]

We are deliberately weaning ourselves off coal and gas. That is the plan for the world. Only vested interests are thwarting the process.
I was replying to the posts about how China is importing massive amounts of coal... much from the U.S., iirc

Edit: typo

We should be deliberately weaning ourselves off, but I don't see much evidence of that. Gas use is increasing due to low price. Fortunately gas produces less CO2 than coal and oil, so that helps reduce overall CO2 production from what it would otherwise be, but it doesn't eliminate the problem by any means. Renewables like solar and wind are also displacing a portion of fossil fuels, but again that is largely because of their lower prices, not deliberate policy. We are still in the "intentions" phase rather than the "we are going to do this" stage.

 

[RonDean]

I see some references to wildfires. It is true that climate change is not the ONLY driver. I've seen old photos of forests. There were quite a few open meadows acting as natural fire breaks and the trees were more a mix of types, ages, and heights than today's tree farms. And now we have more people living in forests and being a cause of fires as well as asking for help when they do happen.

But... none of that changes the fact that burning fossil fuel is warming the planet and it's resultant pollution is bad for our health. And, pursuant to this thread, If we all do what we can to improve the situation, I'll be happy. Not everyone has to march in step to head in generally the same direction. It is only those that think there is no problem to be solved that I tend to take issue with.