Cummins Canoe (A Stepvan Story)
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PlethoraOfGuns
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Airplanes are also 7075 aluminum and you can't really weld that, hence all the rivets. This van is some sort of 6061 equivalent, so we're welding away! Hmmm, we rounded out the corners with welds? Haha. Gussets wouldn't hurt. Maybe we'll hold off on finishing the back doors.
PlethoraOfGuns
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On the way home from work, picked up some goodies.
[size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]This van makes trips to Home Depot so easy! You can really fit everything in there. It's like having two, 8' pickup beds, with a giant cap on top. Unfortunately, it's only 47" between the wheel wells. Someone needs to ********** an engineer.
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[size=small]After many trips to the auto store and wrong wipers, we finally got the proper wiper replacements. Needless to say, they just don't stock these industrial wipers anywhere. NAPA auto hooked me up with the good stuff. Will go back and order a second set to keep in the van as a spare.[/size]
[size=small]What I really need that I can't locate is the driver side plastic fender well splash guard thing that goes up around tire. Apparently it's a GM part. Maybe a junkyard specializing in commercial vehicles?[/size]
[size=small][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]This van makes trips to Home Depot so easy! You can really fit everything in there. It's like having two, 8' pickup beds, with a giant cap on top. Unfortunately, it's only 47" between the wheel wells. Someone needs to ********** an engineer.
[/font][/size]
[size=small]After many trips to the auto store and wrong wipers, we finally got the proper wiper replacements. Needless to say, they just don't stock these industrial wipers anywhere. NAPA auto hooked me up with the good stuff. Will go back and order a second set to keep in the van as a spare.[/size]
[size=small]What I really need that I can't locate is the driver side plastic fender well splash guard thing that goes up around tire. Apparently it's a GM part. Maybe a junkyard specializing in commercial vehicles?[/size]
On your Wheel Wells....
Note that I Lowered my truck substantially. I had a perfect 11.5" of gap between the side skirts and the pavement. With that, I only had about 1.5" of space between the stock rear axle rubber snubbers and the Axle tube, so the most the axle could go up was perhaps 4" with lots and lots of compression... or maybe when really tweaked on crooked ground. I dont think I ever compressed more than 2"... the overloads were still in place.
And with that lowering, I think I still had a little over 7" of space ABOVE the tires ! I cant imagine what that dimension was BEFORE I took all those leafs out.... 12" ???
Now granted, you indicate that you will be going off road with yours, and for that, you need adequate space above your tires. BUT, maybe, for fun, go out and find a good hill or rock crawler spot where you can get her twisted up and measure the space that is left there (please report back!)......
I swear the next truck (I can dream), I would cut my interior wells down some. I don't think I could get it much wider, but lower, really easy.
Note that I Lowered my truck substantially. I had a perfect 11.5" of gap between the side skirts and the pavement. With that, I only had about 1.5" of space between the stock rear axle rubber snubbers and the Axle tube, so the most the axle could go up was perhaps 4" with lots and lots of compression... or maybe when really tweaked on crooked ground. I dont think I ever compressed more than 2"... the overloads were still in place.
And with that lowering, I think I still had a little over 7" of space ABOVE the tires ! I cant imagine what that dimension was BEFORE I took all those leafs out.... 12" ???
Now granted, you indicate that you will be going off road with yours, and for that, you need adequate space above your tires. BUT, maybe, for fun, go out and find a good hill or rock crawler spot where you can get her twisted up and measure the space that is left there (please report back!)......
I swear the next truck (I can dream), I would cut my interior wells down some. I don't think I could get it much wider, but lower, really easy.
PlethoraOfGuns
Well-known member
I think the van sits at a pretty perfect height. Side skirts sit above pavement 14" in the front and 19" in the rear. That is empty though. The van can carry a payload of 6000lbs, so those numbers can change depending on what it is in the back. The side doors are very easy to get into, only 15" to step up. The back door takes a little bit of effort to get up into at 21", but that won't be the primary path to enter and exit vehicle. I'm using a step stool right now to assist getting in and out of the back door. There is 11" from top of tire up to the underside of the wheel well. And 6" of suspension travel up due to the rubber bump stop. Fully flexed, sitting on the rubber bump stops, that would be about 5" above the tires, but dually tires at an angle, you could lose another 2-3". So yes, one could rebuild the boxes and get them lower, but really, you'd only realistically be safely gaining maybe 2" of space. I'm gonna pass, that sounds like a lot of work, haha. I'm already way over my head with this thing! But with the right vehicle, and right paved road conditions, I could see you gaining a few inches.
The thing I would want is more width. You know how much of a pain in the ass it is to pickup up plywood with only like 46" between the wheel wells? It's terrible I tell you. There is clearance to have a full 48". The same dually axle in this van is the same one in the GM dually pickups of that time, and those beds have 48". Silly engineers...
This is basically a house, so I know there are huge limitations on where the vehicle can go. Not looking to go places to max out the suspension. But I want the extra security of not getting stuck with the stock one wheel drive on some dirt road or damp grass field. I think the differential locker and decent tires will do just that.
The thing I would want is more width. You know how much of a pain in the ass it is to pickup up plywood with only like 46" between the wheel wells? It's terrible I tell you. There is clearance to have a full 48". The same dually axle in this van is the same one in the GM dually pickups of that time, and those beds have 48". Silly engineers...
This is basically a house, so I know there are huge limitations on where the vehicle can go. Not looking to go places to max out the suspension. But I want the extra security of not getting stuck with the stock one wheel drive on some dirt road or damp grass field. I think the differential locker and decent tires will do just that.
highdesertranger
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"The same dually axle in this van is the same one in the GM dually pickups of that time, and those beds have 48". Silly engineers..."
well lets get this straighten out. back in the day GM made two duallies and they used two totally different rear axles.
there was a cab and chassis(CC) dually they used a narrow dually in this, a GM corporate 14 bolt full floating(FF) axle.
for the trucks with a pick up bed they used a Dana 70 FF axle which is much wider.
you have a 14bolt FF axle. a far superior axle then the Dana in my book. the 14 bolt FF has 3 bearings supporting the pinion gear just like on heavy truck axles. the Dana 70 has 2 bearings just like a Vega. LOL the Dana axle is much heavier and beefier then a Vega axle. the 14 bolt is the easiest rear axle to rebuild or add a locker to and is super heavy duty. it is also much sought after with the rock crawling crowd matched with a Dana 60 front axle you will not find a stronger combo in off the line light trucks.
the electric company SoCal Edison called the narrow duallies "Line Road Duallies" and they bought a ton of them because the are much narrower and could handle the Line roads much better. this is where mine came from. the CC came without a bed and up fitters could add a bed, mine came with a service bed. yes my truck used to be Edison yellow.
so there is a brief history of GM duallies.
highdesertranger
well lets get this straighten out. back in the day GM made two duallies and they used two totally different rear axles.
there was a cab and chassis(CC) dually they used a narrow dually in this, a GM corporate 14 bolt full floating(FF) axle.
for the trucks with a pick up bed they used a Dana 70 FF axle which is much wider.
you have a 14bolt FF axle. a far superior axle then the Dana in my book. the 14 bolt FF has 3 bearings supporting the pinion gear just like on heavy truck axles. the Dana 70 has 2 bearings just like a Vega. LOL the Dana axle is much heavier and beefier then a Vega axle. the 14 bolt is the easiest rear axle to rebuild or add a locker to and is super heavy duty. it is also much sought after with the rock crawling crowd matched with a Dana 60 front axle you will not find a stronger combo in off the line light trucks.
the electric company SoCal Edison called the narrow duallies "Line Road Duallies" and they bought a ton of them because the are much narrower and could handle the Line roads much better. this is where mine came from. the CC came without a bed and up fitters could add a bed, mine came with a service bed. yes my truck used to be Edison yellow.
so there is a brief history of GM duallies.
highdesertranger
PlethoraOfGuns
Well-known member
Ah yes, thank you for clarifying. Interesting about the "Line Road Duallies". The CC axle is a few inches narrower than the standard DRW axle. There is still some clearance maybe the wheel wells could have been stretched out enough to get the 48"? Regardless, one of the main selling points to the GM chassis on this van was to get the GM 14 bolt. It's a personal favorite of mine. I run them in all my trucks and jeeps and stuff when I can. Already have a disc brake conversion in the back of my mind. The best part of the 14 bolt are the threaded carrier adjustment collars. Makes things like removal and gear backlash so easy!
PlethoraOfGuns
Well-known member
Back to interior work...
[size=small]Got the partition wall all skinned with plywood. Nothing fancy here, just some cheap 3/8" pine. Plywood will make it very easy to mount things to later.[/size]
[size=small]We'll pack it full of insulation at some point. The pocket door is great! It will get finished next.[/size]
[size=small]Some old paint we found laying in the basement. We wanted something grayish, but we're not picky on colors here, especially when it's free.[/size]
[size=small]Surprise! The fridge we ordered more than 2 months ago finally arrived![/size]
[size=small]Oh this will go lovely in here. We could have gotten one of those small ARB chest fridge things. But for the same price, we got almost a full-size 12volt fridge that's 4 times the size and it uses the same amount of power. We got the space, so might as well. Might need many weeks worth of hot pockets and ice cream to live off of. Just need to find a secure way to mount it and keep the doors closed when not in use. Also, ventilation of some sort because fridges need to breathe, which is a problem I notice with many van builds, the lack of fridge ventilation. We'll figure that out as we go.[/size]
[size=small]Got the partition wall all skinned with plywood. Nothing fancy here, just some cheap 3/8" pine. Plywood will make it very easy to mount things to later.[/size]
[size=small]We'll pack it full of insulation at some point. The pocket door is great! It will get finished next.[/size]
[size=small]Some old paint we found laying in the basement. We wanted something grayish, but we're not picky on colors here, especially when it's free.[/size]
[size=small]Surprise! The fridge we ordered more than 2 months ago finally arrived![/size]
[size=small]Oh this will go lovely in here. We could have gotten one of those small ARB chest fridge things. But for the same price, we got almost a full-size 12volt fridge that's 4 times the size and it uses the same amount of power. We got the space, so might as well. Might need many weeks worth of hot pockets and ice cream to live off of. Just need to find a secure way to mount it and keep the doors closed when not in use. Also, ventilation of some sort because fridges need to breathe, which is a problem I notice with many van builds, the lack of fridge ventilation. We'll figure that out as we go.[/size]
highdesertranger
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nice. and no OSB.
can you give us some more info on that refrigerator?
highdesertranger
can you give us some more info on that refrigerator?
highdesertranger
PlethoraOfGuns
Well-known member
OSB is the devil! I can think of 20 reasons never to use it. Only plus might be that it is inexpensive. The fridge is made by a Canadian company, Unique Appliances. It's dc compressor, 6 cubic feet inside space, and draws about 4.3 amps when running. And yes, it has exposed coils on the back. Brainstorming some venting ideas...
Quite a few RV owners have added a bank of computer fans to make a pretty drastic improvement in high heat. We even have used a box fan when we have full hook ups. You might even be able to vent to the interior space for some heat in the cold weather and vent outside in warm weather. Possibly box it in with foam insulation?
PlethoraOfGuns
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I have a small 120v mini fridge in my pickup. That thing throws some heat, so I definitely want to vent this thing properly. Hmmm, we can insulate the bottom, top, and sides of the fridge and leave the back of it exposed to the bare aluminum of the side of the van to help dissipate the heat from the fridge. Not sure if we need fans if we do that, but it's an option I suppose if we need to move air.
That would reduce the compressor noise as well, but on a 100 degree day you will need to circulate air through the coils to keep it working. Heat transfer works both ways you know. Air from the shaded underside away from the exhaust will be cooler and as heat goes up a powered fan vent can push hot air out and pull cooler air in. If you are staying out of 100 plus degree weather it is probably unnecessary but anything you can do to keep the refrigerator insulated from the heat and the compressor cool will result in lower power usage and increase the life of the batteries and the refrigerator.
GntlStone
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PoG, maybe you can tightly insulate around the fridge and use 2 more of the vents you previously used by the front passenger seat. Heat transfer into cabin would be minimized. One installed at bottom and one at top to provide airflow as per bullfrog. You can partially of fully open or close the vents depending on exterior temp. Maybe put a fan or two in there hooked to a variable speed switch for when/if its needed. The Noctua brand fans are great - high airflow at low noise levels. They have industrial versions up to at least 200mm. They may cost a few extra $ but won't whine or hum like cheap fans.
The build is coming along very well and quickly imho, especially considering your mechanical improvements.
The build is coming along very well and quickly imho, especially considering your mechanical improvements.
On the side for anything other than a flush mount vent would be my last choice due to damage from limbs or signs that occasionally occur. I would also want to be able to close any outside vent when on dusty roads. One other consideration is removal, cleaning and power connections of the refrigerator. Most RVs have access to the rear of the refrigerator if they are built in thru an outside removable vent/door in the exterior wall. There are many port hole marine sealable vents and even house hold vents that would do the job.
I often wondered about running mine with just the outer rear dual... well, up until I put the aluminum rims on. After all, they did make 10,000lb gross trucks with a single rear. Ideally though, one would want to use a rim made for a slightly wider tire perhaps, and with an offset that keeps things rigid.
All that said, on an earlier truck, I did run with just an inner when I had a blowout many miles from home. looked dumb, but the truck didn't care. My fully loaded build out weighed around 8600lbs if I recall. YES< always remember WEIGHT is a hidden enemy. Things added up quickly with the truck, but no where as quick as it does on my 2900lb gross 6 x 12 trailer build !
You guys talk about venting Fridges... If you have exposed coils, box them in and create an air flow. You do not even need a fan if you simply come from under the truck and exit out the roof. I'm not afraid of roof holes... I keep leaks from happening by flanging the hole edge upward before sealing things up.
If you have one with the coils built in the side, you have to void the warranty and open up the cabinet to get some air to flow past the coils. This is a current problem in my trailer, yet to be addressed.
For what it is worth, I did first pass photo dump of my truck build over the course of a few years to flickr. Maybe you'll see something useful... maybe not !
https://www.flickr.com/photos/191193631@N08/albums/72157716996887911/page1
All that said, on an earlier truck, I did run with just an inner when I had a blowout many miles from home. looked dumb, but the truck didn't care. My fully loaded build out weighed around 8600lbs if I recall. YES< always remember WEIGHT is a hidden enemy. Things added up quickly with the truck, but no where as quick as it does on my 2900lb gross 6 x 12 trailer build !
You guys talk about venting Fridges... If you have exposed coils, box them in and create an air flow. You do not even need a fan if you simply come from under the truck and exit out the roof. I'm not afraid of roof holes... I keep leaks from happening by flanging the hole edge upward before sealing things up.
If you have one with the coils built in the side, you have to void the warranty and open up the cabinet to get some air to flow past the coils. This is a current problem in my trailer, yet to be addressed.
For what it is worth, I did first pass photo dump of my truck build over the course of a few years to flickr. Maybe you'll see something useful... maybe not !
https://www.flickr.com/photos/191193631@N08/albums/72157716996887911/page1
highdesertranger
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hey Grummy nice job. I love the steam punk look you did. I didn't look at all the pics I got tired of all the ads. highdesertranger
PlethoraOfGuns
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Ah yes, I didn't even think about the noise. Guess it shouldn't bother me all that much, it's just white background noise for the most part. But everyone is suggesting vents, so vents we'll do. We're planning this build for all weather, so need to be properly prepared. This fridge is the most expensive thing we bought for the build, so we want to take care of it and keep it for awhile. Tried to buy used, but they were as expensive as a new unit! And everything was on backorder thanks to the pandemic. So we just bit the bullet one day and hoped it arrived sometime before the end of the year. Having the physical fridge on site during build will be huge for measuring and planning the interior. Thinking up top on wall can be a generic non-opening vent, and at the bottom of wall can be one of those removable RV vent things. Who know's, might need to get to the lower back of the unit for something. Those kick vents are cool, but there won't be access to inside of the vents unless you remove the fridge. Well, that's the plan. Shouldn't need fans if we have vents inline vertically, let convection do it's job.
This project is a lot of work. Definitely up and over my head on this one. Any day I'm not at work, I'm on the van, 14 hours at a time. Go go go! It's like a drug, when you finish a piece and can step back and admire the work, you get a little high. A feeling of euphoria that you can't get from paying someone else to do the work. We're awhile from installing the fridge, but thanks for all the input, ya'll rock! Keep the ideas coming!
And Grummy, I have no plans on changing anything about the current tire situations, other then getting better tires of the same size. It drive 65mph comfortably with no issues. The benefits of duallies greatly outweighs the super singles. For one thing, as you kinda mentioned, if we were to get a flat, it's ok, there is another tire next to that flat one. Enough to get us out of a pickle and to a tire shop. Call me crazy, but I've put zero thought into carrying a spare tire. Technically, in a pinch, the van can lose two tires and still be drivable. You're right, weight is an enemy. I have some ideas to cut weight down here and there. Lithium batteries and lightweight cabinet construction is on the table. I'll let ya'll know my final build weight when we're all done. And I have seen your Grumliner build on a website somewhere awhile back. Awesome build! My favorite part is the expandable bathroom! That is just plain mad!
This project is a lot of work. Definitely up and over my head on this one. Any day I'm not at work, I'm on the van, 14 hours at a time. Go go go! It's like a drug, when you finish a piece and can step back and admire the work, you get a little high. A feeling of euphoria that you can't get from paying someone else to do the work. We're awhile from installing the fridge, but thanks for all the input, ya'll rock! Keep the ideas coming!
And Grummy, I have no plans on changing anything about the current tire situations, other then getting better tires of the same size. It drive 65mph comfortably with no issues. The benefits of duallies greatly outweighs the super singles. For one thing, as you kinda mentioned, if we were to get a flat, it's ok, there is another tire next to that flat one. Enough to get us out of a pickle and to a tire shop. Call me crazy, but I've put zero thought into carrying a spare tire. Technically, in a pinch, the van can lose two tires and still be drivable. You're right, weight is an enemy. I have some ideas to cut weight down here and there. Lithium batteries and lightweight cabinet construction is on the table. I'll let ya'll know my final build weight when we're all done. And I have seen your Grumliner build on a website somewhere awhile back. Awesome build! My favorite part is the expandable bathroom! That is just plain mad!
flying kurbmaster
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When I think of roof vents I think if my old sail boat. It had screw up and down vents, round with a low profile dome lid that screwed up to open and down to close so in bad seas you had a solid no leak vent in rain or soft seas you could have it opened. They were solid enough if you happened to walk on them, you could screw them up or down from inside or outside, made of stainless attractive and suttle about 5 inches across. Marine store likely still sell them, I bet they would be a bit pricey but very nice.
