Bear Pepper Spray

[mockturtle]

Wow. It was as if the bear were asking, 'How's the fishing today?' It would have made me more than a tad nervous.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Okay, let me try this another way!

For those of us for whom carrying a gun is either illegal or undesirable, let's take a good look at alternative means of safety.

If carrying a gun is off the table, what else is effective in specific situations?

I think Bob's article says it well. For those that do not have the option (or will) to carry a gun for protection against wild animals then you have some other tools to choose from. Spray, spear, an knife are all there for you, just will not be as effective as a well trained person with a gun.

In Canada you ARE in fact allowed to carry guns (just not some hand guns or semi-auto rifles holding more than 5 rds), including guns that are not legal in parts of the USA (such as California).  While the AR-15 is not legal there, the Mini-14 is (not legal in CA, NJ and NY in the USA). All shotguns and bolt action rifles are legal too, and both types carry a bigger punch than the AR-15 or Mini-14. Hand guns with barrels greater than 4 inches (most handguns) are legal too, just require a different permit to own. Self-defense from wild animals using a gun is also legal in Canada. You have some additional hoops to jump through in Canada, but you can buy, own, and use almost the same guns as the good old USA. Canada is far from a gun-free country with nearly 31 guns for every 100 residents. Canada is the 12th highest gun-ownership country in the world per-capita. There are literally millions of guns and many, many, many gun owners... many of which own magazine fed semi-auto rifles of the exact same function as any modern "assault rifle" in the USA.

Take a look at your local gun club and join your national organization(s) to support your right to own guns in Canada, you will not be alone.

Read http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts-faits/index-eng.htm for some interesting facts and figures

Firearm ownership in Canada is not only alive, it is thriving. Canada even issues gun licenses to minors (under 18) which we do not do in the USA.

 

[Van-Tramp]

And of course, there is a perfectly legal way to have your legally owned semi-auto assault rifle have a 15rd capacity in Canada. Simply buy a 50cal "Beowolf" magazine (holds only 5 rds of that caliber) and plug it directly into your Mini-14. It will hold up 12-15 rds of the Mini-14 ammo and is perfectly legal in Canada.

 

[Almost There]

I give up!

 

[mockturtle]

I give up!

Promise?  

 

[LeeRevell]

Obviously there is no single "One size fits all" solution for all people in all situations in all places.  Like a good golfer with many 'clubs' in his bag, we must have many differing means of defense fit for the particular situation.

 

[highdesertranger]

Van Tramp I read your post a couple of times and I am not sure about this, "the Mini-14 is (not legal in CA, NJ and NY in the USA". the mini 14 is LEGAL in Kalifornia, just as long as you don't have it modified to have 2 of 4 of the no no's. I totally agree with you on the fact that Canada is not a gun free zone. I have spent time in the Yukon and let me tell you there are plenty of guns. when I went up there I called and asked the government about taking a firearm into their country. they were very polite an asked what type of gun, I told them a pump action 12gauge shotgun. the guy on the other end said, "good choice". then he said just declare it at the border and you will be fine. so I declared it at the border and they didn't even want to see it. highdesertranger

 

[Van-Tramp]

Thanks highdesertstranger. I stand corrected

Yep, I just rolled through Canada with my 12g and 22 long rifle without a single blink from the Mounties. Declared and paid my $25 is all they cared about. My 40 cal S&W was shipped to Alaska as the magazines (not the gun itself) are 15rd and are illegal in Canada.

Pepperspray or Mace is NOT permitted in Canada (neither is raw chicken, eggs, fruits & veggies, or dogs without rabbies vac). Only Bear Spray and it must specifically state that it is for bears. Almost There, I know you said you give up, but I hope you understand why other options (including guns) is always introduced into these threads. Not only is it the MOST effective, it is also THE MOST legal option for personal defense to carry in the USA and may be so in Canada as well. Leaving it out as an option would be irresponsible.

 

[Almost There]

Leaving it out as an option is not the problem.

I'm not going to go count the threads but it is my impression that the majority of threads here that COULD possibly stray into discussion of guns does so and rather rapidly and then becomes guncentric.

Am I the only one who does not carry, does not intend to carry and truthfully is weary of having 'guns are the answer' presented as the be all and end all!

If I am, I'll just put the gun discussion on ignore.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Van Tramp I read your post a couple of times and I am not sure about this,  "the Mini-14 is (not legal in CA, NJ and NY in the USA".  the mini 14 is LEGAL in Kalifornia,  just as long as you don't have it modified to have 2 of 4 of the no no's.  I totally agree with you on the fact that Canada is not a gun free zone.  I have spent time in the Yukon and let me tell you there are plenty of guns.  when I went up there I called and asked the government about taking a firearm into their country.  they were very polite an asked what type of gun,  I told them a pump action 12gauge shotgun.  the guy on the other end said,  "good choice".  then he said just declare it at the border and you will be fine.  so I declared it at the border and they didn't even want to see it.  highdesertranger

FWIW, The Mini-14 is still legal in NY, too, as long as you haven't been trying to "dress it up"  with flash suppressors and pistol grip stocks and suchlike.

Regards
John

 

[minimotos95]

Options are slim for lethal ways to defend yourself from bear/moose if you've ruled out firearms. but before firearms were carried spears worked to take down bear. Becoming proficient enough with a spear to disable a charging bear or moose might be a challenge.
Blunt weapons and less lethals like pepper spray, stun guns , cattle prods, and so on. are not alternatives to a firearm but another layer a defense.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Leaving it out as an option is not the problem.

I'm not going to go count the threads but it is my impression that the majority of threads here that COULD possibly stray into discussion of guns does so and rather rapidly and then becomes guncentric.

Am I the only one who does not carry, does not intend to carry and truthfully is weary of having 'guns are the answer' presented as the be all and end all!

If I am, I'll just put the gun discussion on ignore.

This forum is about "Safety on the Road" and if we are talking about self defense (either human-vs-human or wildlife-vs-human) there is no better choice. So, yes it is going to be brought up in just about any of those topics. Guns, though you choose not to use/carry one, ARE the top answer for personal security. For that reason others are going to bring it up... a lot.

 

[mockturtle]

Regarding bear spray, yes, I crossed the border several times into Canada and the US this summer on my Alaska trip and my canister was allowed in every instance because it is clearly labeled 'bear spray'.

And, of course, I left my revolver in the lower 48.

 

[LeeRevell]

As to using Bear Spray against Humans. Wiki has this to say about it....... (hilites are mine):

"Content[edit]

Bear spray contains a lower level (typically 1-2%) of oleoresin capsicum than pepper sprays intended for self-defense against human assailants (typically 10% or greater) and should not be used as self defense as it is much less effective. [2]"

Of course, each makes his or her own choice.  

 

[mockturtle]

As to using Bear Spray against Humans. Wiki has this to say about it....... (hilites are mine):

"Content[edit]

Bear spray contains a lower level (typically 1-2%) of oleoresin capsicum than pepper sprays intended for self-defense against human assailants (typically 10% or greater) and should not be used as self defense as it is much less effective. [2]"

Of course, each makes his or her own choice.  

Having accidentally sprayed myself with bear spray twice [make sure you know the wind direction!], I can assure you that a person will be disabled, choking and probably blinded, for about half an hour but will fully recover.

 

[LeeRevell]

I have read verified accounts of certain assailants, hyped up on drugs, that were NOT stopped by either type of spray, so this has to be considered.  Same as a drugged-up assailant can still attack when hit with accurate gunfire - he's dead but just hasn't quite run out of steam yet......

When dealing with the Human body, the variables are many.  What will stop one person cold will not faze another.

 

[highdesertranger]

or they are just so high that their body doesn't realize they are dead. highdesertranger

 

[Canine]

I often hear people say that it is against federal law to use bear spray on people or to use wasp spray on people. Wrapping a crowbar around someone's head is against federal law, too, but it is legal when used in a self defense situation. Same thing with any other object. If I were about to be raped and had access to bear spray, I would spray the hell out of my attacker. I consider that legal.

 

[LeeRevell]

Identification of bear species by scat:
Black bear - contains fur and berries.
Grizzly bear - contains bells and whistles and smells of pepper.

 

[Van-Tramp]

I wonder if he had bear spray?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...onal-park-authorities-say/?wprss=rss_homepage

I was just going to come mention this one. I would assume that if he had a gun or spray on him or found nearby, then the report would likely have said so. No reason for anyone to leave that info out and it is extremely relevant to the story (as well as making the story more compelling; read "ratings").

It is real easy for a veteran hiker hiking a trail he has frequented for years to grow complacent and stop worrying about something he has not seen many times in his past. Not saying this is what happened, but it wouldn't surprise me.