2021 Toyota Sienna and Pacifica- how helpful is hybrid for van living?

[psartman]

I thought my mind was made up to get the new hybrid AWD Sienna until I found out the 2nd row seats are not removable. Yes, I know that anything can be removed with tools and effort (for instance, I turn the from passenger seat around on my Mazda CX-5 when using it for camping), but it seems Toyota put the 2nd row airbags IN the seats which makes disabling them for removal very difficult. I've emailed Toyota and there are active threads going on about this on the Siennachat.com forum, but so far no-one has claimed to have successfully removed the seats. Not surprising since the 2021 has not been out for very long.

So the alternative for a hybrid minivan is the Chrysler  Pacifica PHEV. My question is- how helpful for camping use is it to have a hybrid vehicle with access to its batteries for heating and AC and general electrical use? I know that Toyota hybrids can be put in a mode that will start the ICE to charge the 12V as need overnight for AC and heating. And I believe there is some complicated workaround with the PacHy to do this as well. 

Besides the improved MPG, is this enough of a reason to get a hybrid vs. ICE for camping use? They are more expensive, although with the $7500 tax credit for the Pacifica PHEV it may be a wash. I'd rather not bother with solar panels and generators because my stays in each spot will be short-term (1-3 nights.) Thoughts?

 

[bullfrog]

I think the Toyota Prius has been around long enough that it’s mechanicals are pretty well proven by the end of a series run. I would be concerned with other models sales numbers as most vehicles will need a good source of parts as they age and wear rates haven’t been established as the manufacturers just haven’t sold enough yet. If I could afford it I would buy a Prius as a power plant for my RV as they can be modified to supply more than enough power and do it more economically and quieter than my current generator. I’m still waiting for a full sized high clearance van version. There is a company offering a 1 1/2” suspension lift kit that claims no unusual drive train problems for the Prius. If it were only me I would consider it with a 3000 watt inverter hooked to the main battery and a tent with a ceramic heater or small air conditioner. I would sleep in the car only in bad weather conditions most likely. Other manufacturers have been able to invent get arounds for seat removal I imagine there will be one for Toyota soon if not already.

 

[Diana C]

There's a YouTube video on a channel by Brad Ling that was posted on Dec 26, 2020 called "Removing 2021 Sienna's non-removable seats". It's an excellent demonstration of how to remove the middle seats. Hope this helps.

 

[psartman]

Thanks Diana. Yes, I saw this and was encouraged. I still haven't seen an answer as to whether the ensuing airbag warning on display can be shut off, and/or if that will hinder use of the display for other purposes?

 

[crofter]

Pacifica minivan has too much glass on the roof for a dweller van. Usually you want an inch of insulation up there, and blackout for stealth. Also only 32 mile range on the electrical system. Was not able to find any without seats and windows.
-crofter

 

[crofter]

Sienna has a console between the front seats, which is a climb over for a dweller van. "Refrigerator" is really tiny. Still looking to see if the second row seats fold flat or not when reclined. Here is a review.
-crofter

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-toyota-sienna-4-things-we-like-and-4-things-we-dont-430419/

 

[nature lover]

So happens that the rehab facility I am in has a sienna van that they can transport my wheelchair or even a patient on a litter. The entire back floor of the strap 10 inches. Course there’s a ramp that comes out. But if you take that rap thing out and make a nice vehicle to live in a lot more space than a regular sienna. But maybe they’re very rare. I love my high top regular size man but I’d like to get the mileage of Siena

 

[crofter]

For sure both the Pacifica and the Sienna were on my short list for dwelling, but I am glad I got a big fat van instead. I like the open space I have interior, and the lower gas mileage is not a deal breaker. I have discovered that there is a lot more dwelling days than travel days in my lifestyle.
-crofter

 

[chris84]

I've had both Pacifica and Promaster, and while the drivetrain is similar, the Pacifica is much too nice of a vehicle for van dwelling. All those things that make is so nice for long trips would get in the way for van dwelling. The non-hybrid pacifica has a fold flat second row, but the hybrid does not, the middle seats can come out though.

 

[bobwas]

28249[/ATTACH]psartman pid='522616' dateline='1612120682']Thanks Diana. Yes, I saw this and was encouraged. I still haven't seen an answer as to whether the ensuing airbag warning on display can be shut off, and/or if that will hinder use of the display for other purposes?

psartman. I took delivery of a 2021 Sienna XSE three days ago. I've driven Toyota hybrids for 8 years and love them. Yesterday I took out the rear row seats and the middle row seats in about 2 hours, with no problems or glitches. Then I went for a test drive.....
I now have an error message on the computer part of my control panel that reads "SRS Airbag System Malfunction Visit Your dealer". There is an arrow to change screen and when I click it, the error message goes away for a few seconds and comes back - repeatedly.
So I went to my dealer this morning and inquired about a fix. They will call Toyota and see if there is the ability to disable the malfunction. I also asked about connecting a set of cables or seat belts to "beat the malfunction. I believe it to be related to the rear seats only as Brad Ling does not mention any malfunctions in his video on removing the middle seats.
I will post more info - if I learn more that is. Or, if anyone is aware of a fix, it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[psartman]

There is info in this thread about a device that will bypass the warning. I haven't tried it, plan to wait until the next model year to see if Toyota makes seat removal any easier.

 

[chris84]

A follow up.
I now own a 2021 hybrid pacifica and still have the 2018 Promaster. The pacifica is a vehicle to drive around, the promaster is a great vehicle to convert and live in.

 

[thebarefootbadger]

Sienna has a console between the front seats, which is a climb over for a dweller van. "Refrigerator" is really tiny. Still looking to see if the second row seats fold flat or not when reclined. Here is a review.
-crofter

https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-toyota-sienna-4-things-we-like-and-4-things-we-dont-430419/

I just bought one (2021). The second row seats don't fold flat - forwards or reclining - but they do fold up sort of vertically and push forward til they're absolutely squashed up against the front row seats, about the same size as having a suitcase behind your seat. Still extra weight and a space hog, but useful if you need to convert your house back into a car. - one drawback, the second row has a console too, which is now attached to the floor. it's only about 6" high, but annoying if you want a flat floor. I think I can get in there and unbolt it, but it's not as easy as it used to be.

 

[thebarefootbadger]

Just FYI I have it home now and realize that center second row console is attached to the left seat, so they'll come out together.

 

[myke]

I was also interested in the '21 Sienna. AWD and 36 mpg, wow. But I can't believe they put the airbags in the back seats, that's a deal breaker, you don't want to be messing with that stuff, such a pain in the ass. And there are still those damn tracks left after the seats are removed. Why can't they just design it where all rear seats can be removed and the floor flat?

I had a '16 Sienna and I removed all the rear seats, then also removed the tracks from underneath the van as well. Total pain in the ass, but at least there were no airbags in the seats. Also, the headroom in it was still quite low...

 

[Maple]

I just bought one (2021).  The second row seats don't fold flat - forwards or reclining - but they do fold up sort of vertically and push forward til they're absolutely squashed up against the front row seats, about the same size as having a suitcase behind your seat.  Still extra weight and a space hog, but useful if you need to convert your house back into a car. - one drawback, the second row has a console too, which is now attached to the floor.  it's only about 6" high, but annoying if you want a flat floor.  I think I can get in there and unbolt it, but it's not as easy as it used to be.

Can you verify if you can put a narrow twin bed behind the second row after you fold it. The length is 75 in.

Thank you very much.

 

[LPres]

Forget about the seats. How helpful is hybrid for van living?

 

[wanderlust]

Forget about the seats. How helpful is hybrid for van living?

Quite a lot helpful? Both airconditioning and heating, and running a fridge is much simpler if you have a generator on wheels, IMHO. Hybrid is one of my top priorities. Not being able to easily remove the second row seats is a huge downer tho.

 

[thebarefootbadger]

Personally, Brad Ling's little dongle doohickies took care of the seats beautifully for maybe $20, that was not at all as horrible as I'd imagined. On the other hand, I have been totally intimidated by my hybrid electrical system that's about as intuitive as income tax forms, and it hasn't really made any difference at all to me, other than the fact that my liveable-sized vehicle gets 36 mpg. I really want to use the system but so far, I've just lived with a separate battery and solar panel.

 

[urbankid12]

I was also interested in the '21 Sienna. AWD and 36 mpg, wow. But I can't believe they put the airbags in the back seats, that's a deal breaker, you don't want to be messing with that stuff, such a pain in the ass. And there are still those damn tracks left after the seats are removed. Why can't they just design it where all rear seats can be removed and the floor flat?

I had a '16 Sienna and I removed all the rear seats, then also removed the tracks from underneath the van as well. Total pain in the ass, but at least there were no airbags in the seats. Also, the headroom in it was still quite low...

From my understanding Toyota wanted the new Sienna to be more "upscale" and to appeal to a higher class of people. I do hope they introduce a new "touring" like edition that is more designed to be a minivan camper. I mean conversion vans were popular and still are. Toyota has a great opportunity to rebrand the minivan into a conversion van type class of vehicle. Although I wonder if they wouldn't touch that untapped market out of fear of being labeled as the " number one minivan for homeless people living in their vehicles."

I'm really excited bout the hybrid Sienna and to see where it goes in the future. I think it's here to stay and even if the seats are a pain, it's a huge step up in size from the Prius so there is that alone...

I'm hoping maybe by 2029 I can buy a NICE 2025 Hybrid Sienna that is a bit better designed for van camping. Lets hope the next generation design change will be a big improvement!