When it's time to stop.

[rruff]

I happen to have a good buddy who's a long time heroin addict... and really anything he can get ahold of. I met him when he saved me... while I was getting attacked by 4 dogs (2 bull terriers, a pitbull, and a rat terrier) who meant business... meaning they were wearing me down in small bites til they could make a meal out of me. Interestingly, dozens of people passed by in their cars and did nothing... Anyway I have a connection...

 

[rruff]

...I'll see you guys in 2525.

I wish you luck, but I doubt you'll be seeing any of us...

 

[INTJohn]

I'm betting on cryogenic stasis. I'll see you guys in 2525.

U had 2 no this was coming………



jonny boi ain’t sayin; he jus sayin

 

[SLB_SA]

I've been diagnosed with two valves in my heart that leak backward causing several issues. Not getting any help from the normal MD and specialist MDs I went to a natural medicine doctor today.

My sister had mitral valve "failure" (very severe mitral valve regurgitation) and had to be airlifted to SF for emergency open heart surgery a few years ago. She is now doing fantastically now. I also have mild mitral valve prolapse but my cardiologist says to just monitor it (an echocardiogram every two years) and don't stress about it. Each person can do as they wish but I generally trust my doctors. And I am trying to lose some weight.

 

[Gr8ful]

A good friend who's the best chiropractor I know went to Bronson Hosp in Kazoo one night about midnight & told them he was having a heart attack. They checked him out, said he wasn't & sent him home which he refused to do. The cardiologist came in at 6am examined him & did emergency surgery within the hour. IMHO the medical industry is like any other industry, all about profit & you're lucky to get 10% very good people & the rest are there for the paycheck. I usually draw the bottom of the barrel also. When I was young hospitals were non-profit, Docs were upper middle class, drove station wagons, made house calls & did it to help people.

 

[tx2sturgis]

U had 2 no this was coming………

Well of course....I didnt pick that number at random!

 

[Morgana]

I generally trust my doctors.

all about profit & you're lucky to get 10% very good people

I've had both experiences -- from docs who are obviously smart and thorough and who listen and explain stuff and leave no stone unturned in figuring out your problem, to the worst incompetents and slackers. I've had enough of the latter lately to make me want to line up behind Gr8ful. I dunno. It does seem like something is getting worse out there -- lingering stresses from the Covid wars? changes in corporate structure? somebody's dumped an ***-hat potion in the water supply?? As much as I hate being a patient these days, I don't think I'd like being a doctor much either. I wonder if anyone -- other than CEOs and bean counters -- has much freedom of movement left in this system.

It seems like such a cr@p-shoot anymore whether you can get a good 'un -- no matter how thoroughly you research, and shop around, and push back when they try to give you the bum's rush. (I mean, you do have to do all that, but it may not be enough.) The last really good doc I had was part of a university hospital system. If I had that option again, I'd grab it (though I''m sure it's no guarantee either).

So, respect to both of y'all's positions. All I can think of to make this mess better is ...
(1) get on the books with a good primary-care doc BEFORE you need one -- get to know them and how they handle small problems, before god forbid you get a big problem, also they will know you and you will be harder to brush off
(2) if you need care, don't delay (the system will provide plenty of those!)
(3) keep yourself as healthy as you can for as long as you can.

Crazy times. Good luck to us all!

 

[user 22017]

I've had both experiences -- from docs who are obviously smart and thorough and who listen and explain stuff and leave no stone unturned in figuring out your problem, to the worst incompetents and slackers. <snip>

It seems like such a cr@p-shoot anymore whether you can get a good 'un -- no matter how thoroughly you research, and shop around, and push back when they try to give you the bum's rush. (I mean, you do have to do all that, but it may not be enough.) The last really good doc I had was part of a university hospital system. If I had that option again, I'd grab it (though I''m sure it's no guarantee either).

Same with me. I've had amazing doctors and some that shouldn't have a license to practice. It has been like that since I started seeing doctors regularly 35 years ago (with my first child).

 

[WanderingRose]

It is my experience in recent years that our medical system is overwhelmed, as we baby boomers age and clog up the works.

Also, many of our doctors are part of these large hospital systems that are all over the country, meaning they are a business, first, and a medical practice, second.

I was told by my physician a couple of decades ago, at the onset of a condition I will carry the rest of my life, to take an active role in and responsibility for my own care.

To look at my own labs, ask questions and get answers, not to just sit back and trust that I would not fall thru the cracks…which has almost happened several times, at which point I was actively involved in saving my own life.

Both of my adult children have access to my medical records, and can also receive information, so that if I am unable to advocate for myself they can step in.

I believe we all need this, a friend or family member to advocate for us if we cannot do so for ourselves.

The days of one doctor and his nurse who knew us and handled all things is over, forever.

I changed PCP’s last year, not because I wanted to but primarily because I could not access my physician between appointments.

He and I would agree on a course of action, the nurses would modify or ignore that, and I could not even message him as everything first went thru the nurses. Who would forward to him, or not.

My new PCP receives and responds to messages I send to her.

I also recommend establishing a relationship with a PCP, and using their patient portal for important issues because there is then a written record.

 

[tx2sturgis]

And related to this is the fact that your medical insurance choices are important also.

Before I turned 65, I was still receiving all the solicitations that were offering (or trying to sell me) Medicare Advantage plans, so I went to a few in-person presentations and the one that made the biggest impression on me is when several nurses and a few doctors from our local hospital presented all the pros and cons on both Original Medicare and Medicare Advantage Plans.

After the facts were presented, a couple of the nurses said, 'off the record', that Medicare Advantage Plans were killing the small community hospitals ability to provide good patient care, since EVERY medical procedure, even urgent ones, have to be approved or cleared by some clerk, customer service rep, or committee in India or Bangladesh or some other country where the 'Advantage' plan had outsourced it's approval procedure.

These nurses and doctors told us that sometimes, important procedures or therapies were either delayed or denied for patients that needed them, based only on the costs. In other words, the needs of the patient are secondary to the needs of the Advantage plan to turn a profit.

There are many factors to consider, but I decided to stay on Original Medicare. I haven't had to use it yet...so the 'jury is still out'...but I feel like it's the right choice, for me.

 

[SLB_SA]

And related to this is the fact that your medical insurance choices are important also.

Before I turned 65, I was still receiving all the solicitations that were offering (or trying to sell me) Medicare Advantage plans, so I went to a few in-person presentations and the one that made the biggest impression on me is when several nurses and a few doctors from our local hospital presented all the pros and cons on both Original Medicare and Medicare Advantage Plans.

After the facts were presented, a couple of the nurses said, 'off the record', that Medicare Advantage Plans were killing the small community hospitals ability to provide good patient care, since EVERY medical procedure, even urgent ones, have to be approved or cleared by some clerk, customer service rep, or committee in India or Bangladesh or some other country where the 'Advantage' plan had outsourced it's approval procedure.

These nurses and doctors told us that sometimes, important procedures or therapies were either delayed or denied for patients that needed them, based only on the costs. In other words, the needs of the patient are secondary to the needs of the Advantage plan to turn a profit.

There are many factors to consider, but I decided to stay on Original Medicare. I haven't had to use it yet...so the 'jury is still out'...but I feel like it's the right choice, for me.

I have been on Medical Advantage for four years. I weighed a supplemental program, ordinary Medicare and Medicare Advantage before I turned 65 and picked MA because of the cost savings (i.e. free (after paying the usual monthly medicare bill)) and enhanced coverage over normal Medicare. I did change MA companies after the first year however.

How has it worked? The routine dental coverage is adequate but the "coverage" of crowns isn't perfect and forget any help with implants!! The medical coverage has actually been pretty good but the co-pays can add up; I paid a $500 co-pay for a crown after the claim was initially denied (the dentist disputed it for me) and medical co-pays nickel and dime you over and over. However my overall experience has not been terrible; I get all the tests my doctors prescribe.

 

[RonDean]

Like any other profession, there's good and there's bad. And then there's criminal. Sometimes just due to incompetence and other times like the UK Nurse that was recently convicted of killing babies. And there is a lot happening that we never see or hear about. Got a few folks in my family in the medical profession that have filled me in on some of that. So, not much would shock me.

We SHOULD take individual responsibility and ask questions and make notes. Do I? Nope. To be honest, I am just not interested until something seems to be going wrong. There are just so many other things going on that I find more interesting. So... I have decided to mostly trust the advice I get from Docs and cross my fingers that when I rolled the dice I got a good one.

I do sometimes blame the "Greed is Good" philosophy that seems to be rampant in our society. People (including everyone involved in our medical care) are created or at least heavily influenced by the society that taught them values and ethics. Things that seem to have become in short supply lately.

 

[Morgana]

We SHOULD take individual responsibility and ask questions and make notes. Do I? Nope. To be honest, I am just not interested until something seems to be going wrong.

Well, you can tell a lot by HOW your doctor talks to you. If that seems satisfactory to you, and the treatment is succeeding, then I don't think you should have to play detective just for the sake of doing it. You're right that there are too many things demanding our attention for us to step up to every single one.
As long as you realize that you have a right to full information, and to be treated like a partner in your own health care -- and you know what to do if you do need to get involved more -- that seems like the main thing.
BTW, FWIW, the Mayo Clinic website, in the "preparing for your appointment" section under each disease, gives a nice list of questions you could ask your doctor if you were concerned.

 

[Sage]

A good friend who's the best chiropractor I know went to Bronson Hosp in Kazoo one night about midnight & told them he was having a heart attack. They checked him out, said he wasn't & sent him home which he refused to do. The cardiologist came in at 6am examined him & did emergency surgery within the hour. IMHO the medical industry is like any other industry, all about profit & you're lucky to get 10% very good people & the rest are there for the paycheck. I usually draw the bottom of the barrel also. When I was young hospitals were non-profit, Docs were upper middle class, drove station wagons, made house calls & did it to help people.

I worked in a county hospital when I was 16 as a nurses aided. I've worked in the medical field from the early 60's until early 2000's and have watched it go down hill. What has happened starting with covid is frightening. The cardiologist told me I was fit as any 40 year old. Yah, right. I remember when I was 40 and even late 50;s. Backpacking, mountain biking every freed day. No way my heart or lungs would allow that kind of activity today. With a knowledge of human physiology and anatomy I have enough knowledge of the body and signs and symptoms of problems to know he was lying to me. My chiropractor and a natural health doctor are both concerned. Didn't have to see the echo-cardio gram to know I've problems. They can tell by my swollen legs which the MD discounts and incompetent valves in the veins. Having had viscose veins since I was 12 I think I know what they look like. There is no relationship to the swelling and what viscose veins look like. So I won't be seeing that MD again. I really think because I am well past 60 years that my life has no value to the medical establishment. I have seen it with others and up close with my 92 year old husband they actually gave medications that they knew could kill him. I don't trust them as far as I can throw any one of them.

 

[Sage]

I've had both experiences -- from docs who are obviously smart and thorough and who listen and explain stuff and leave no stone unturned in figuring out your problem, to the worst incompetents and slackers. I've had enough of the latter lately to make me want to line up behind Gr8ful. I dunno. It does seem like something is getting worse out there -- lingering stresses from the Covid wars? changes in corporate structure? somebody's dumped an ***-hat potion in the water supply?? As much as I hate being a patient these days, I don't think I'd like being a doctor much either. I wonder if anyone -- other than CEOs and bean counters -- has much freedom of movement left in this system.

It seems like such a cr@p-shoot anymore whether you can get a good 'un -- no matter how thoroughly you research, and shop around, and push back when they try to give you the bum's rush. (I mean, you do have to do all that, but it may not be enough.) The last really good doc I had was part of a university hospital system. If I had that option again, I'd grab it (though I''m sure it's no guarantee either).

So, respect to both of y'all's positions. All I can think of to make this mess better is ...
(1) get on the books with a good primary-care doc BEFORE you need one -- get to know them and how they handle small problems, before god forbid you get a big problem, also they will know you and you will be harder to brush off
(2) if you need care, don't delay (the system will provide plenty of those!)
(3) keep yourself as healthy as you can for as long as you can.

Crazy times. Good luck to us all!

Get on the books with a good primary-care doc. That is great as long as you never have to go into the hospital. The hospitalist are a crap shoot. Out of 5 visits to the hospital my husband got on good hospitilist. Only the one took good care of him and gave him medicine for covid that really worked and in just 6 hours from listless to sitting up eating supper and talking. He also, found other problems that appear to have been caused by covid. The other 6 doctors he had were the ones giving medicine that was unsafe to give to the elderly and unnecessarily dragging out treatment to make it days until he got better when they could have had him out of the woods in 24 hours. Also, the unnecessary moving him between departments during one visit, 3 different moves and ending up in the department he started in. BTW, one move was into a hall that was mostly covid......what were they thinking? He was in for congestive heart failure and out of balance electrolytes. Trying to give him covid again? Sure looked suspicious.

 

[user 22017]

[Mod edit: Quote removed because the quoted post itself was removed] -tx2

You sure like to generalize about people. I could have eaten a steady diet of Little Debbie cosmic brownies my entire life and the doctor STILL should have been able to diagnose ailments. He failed miserably and repeatedly.

Once another doc or, in my case, dentist diagnosed my ailments my doc was great. But he needed others to diagnose. I'd probably be dead by now had I kept going to him.

 

[rruff]

They can tell by my swollen legs which the MD discounts and incompetent valves in the veins. Having had viscose veins since I was 12 I think I know what they look like. There is no relationship to the swelling and what viscose veins look like.

Varicose veins here too... since mid 20s. Never really bothered me. Have raced bicycles til I was 62 (last year). Last winter my legs and feet swelled up so much I couldn't wear my shoes, feet turned blue, the skin on the ends of my toes cracked and bled... doc prescribed compression socks. It got better on its own...

 

[Sage]

Varicose veins here too... since mid 20s. Never really bothered me. Have raced bicycles til I was 62 (last year). Last winter my legs and feet swelled up so much I couldn't wear my shoes, feet turned blue, the skin on the ends of my toes cracked and bled... doc prescribed compression socks. It got better on its own...

In my case compression socks just pushed the swelling to above them. I've been doing some natural stuff for years that has helped my varicose veins to the point they are only slightly distended, and are distinctly veins. Physical activity such as walking, bicycling have always kept the swelling of the veins within given parameters. What is happening now starts at the top of my shoes and swells exponentially there and spreads upward. Elevating my feet & lower legs will cause the swelling to go away over night. Also, my bipap had reduced the swelling I had at the time I started using it. Right now, the bipap alone won't reduce the swelling. Therefore it appears to me something unrelated to the varicose veins is happening.

 

[rruff]

Our society spends a crazy amount of time and money on medical administration, insurance, and lawsuits. Can't really blame the docs or the rest of the workers, as they are a product of the environment they work in. Rather the people controlling that environment are the real culprits. But how much control do they really have? Not a conspiracy buff... except to say that there are plenty of people seeking power... and influencing/controlling medicine, education, entertainment, media, and banks/finance, etc... lots of $$$, lots of power. Us peons are just passengers on this bus. We can waste time worrying about where it's going... or just enjoy the scenery. The only ultimate meaning I've ever found for life is enjoyment/entertainment. After all, it's going to end up at the same place regardless...

Looks like it's gonna be a beautiful day where I'm at! I hope you all are healthy and pain-free enough to enjoy being alive... like Johnny...

 

[RonDean]

rruff, I love your analogy about us being passengers on the bus and we might as well enjoy the scenery. I think it;s a viewpoint that might help a lot of us get through the day happier. I'll try to remember it the next time something gets me irritated.